Anyone else think its not right that videos from lotusflow3r.com are being posted on video websites, pictures are apearing aswell.

so really the people who paid could of saved themselves $77!

i dont think people shoul re post the vids and get stuff for free!

You cannot keep media secret on the internet.
Everything will be shared very quickly.

RumAndRaisin said:

ooooo weeeee, the web's for freeeee!

cheers!
~svn seven

RumAndRaisin said:

Yes, it's not right. With the sense of entitlement that some folks have online now, they have no regard for what's right or wrong.

Serena said:

Think of them as modern day Robin Hoods. I'm sure some of them do it as a way of protesting some of the things Prince does (harassment of fan sites for trivial stuff like posting photos; always overcharging and underdelivering on his website)

RumAndRaisin said:

If its promoting the current albums I think its in their interest to let those float (eg. current performances). However anything else shouldn't.

BanishedBrian said:

Well, the problem is, its his material, so he can do wth he wants with it. If he wants to piss people like you off, again, thats his right. Either live with it (or move on).

BanishedBrian said:

Don't care, it's still not right. That's what I mean, because someone thinks they're justified in doing something, then it's ok? It's a matter of opinion on whether he's overcharged and if the content is worth it. The fact is, to get the material, you agreed to not disseminate it. That's pretty simple.
[Edited 3/28/09 8:13am]

Obviously it had to be from some fans who joined the site and ripped them off somehow and posted them elsewhere, just like some fans who took the 3 songs he released and posted them on other sites, then people wonder why he's protective over his material.
[Edited 3/28/09 8:16am]

I think ppl take this membership way too seriously,

Close2u said:

And some people don't take 'giving their word' seriously enough anymore.

Serena said:

Just to be clear, I'm not someone that has ever disseminated anything - I'm just describing what I'd assume the mindset to be.

If you have a personal beef with the way Prince runs his business and treats customers, I'm not sure you're going to care that you've "agreed" to do anything.

The larger point is that artists that aren't so hostile towards fans in terms of policing every little thing tend to engender a fanbase that's more likely to respect their wishes. (I could be wrong about that, but that's my hunch.)

RumAndRaisin said:

are they?

BanishedBrian said:

Gotcha and I'm using the 'collective you' when discussing this.



The fact that people even think that way of 'Prince did this and I didn't like it, so I'll get back at him...' is just wrong. What ever happened to people believing 'two wrongs don't make a right'?

Serena said:[quote]

Gotcha and I'm using the 'collective you' when discussing this.

BanishedBrian said:

[/q]

Serena said:

Honestly, I think that a lot of people who disseminate Prince material are at some level motivated by a desire to "Free the Music".

Prince has always been a heavily bootlegged artist, and while I really know nothing about the business of bootlegging, I have to believe that much of this was done by people who just wanted great music (both outtakes and live performances) to be heard.

As as a Prince fan, aren't you glad that a performance like Small Club is memorialized for all time instead of decaying in some vault never to see the light of day? I definitely am. (I guess you could say on something like that, I think it's in Prince's interests, and whether he agrees or not doesn't particularly concern me.)

When Prince was being bootlegged in the 80s and 90s, I believe it really was mostly bootlegging of unreleased material as opposed to piracy of released material.

Technology has made piracy a bigger problem now, but I have to think that a lot of peoples' bitterness towards the way that Prince has kind of turned his back on the "Free the Music" rhetoric that he was spouting back when he had SLAVE written on his face has probably made them less inclined to draw a moral line between bootlegging and piracy. Just my theory though.
[Edited 3/28/09 8:51am]

BanishedBrian said:

I hope someone robs your house and comes with the explanation that he´s a modern Robin Hood.

BanishedBrian said:[quote]

Serena said:

Well, I wasn't talking about boots in general, there's a difference between sharing (booting) live shows (that haven't been offered officially) and piracy. This IS official material and those who want to possess/see it should pay for it. (I'm talking about the 'exclusive' club content in particular.) I think Prince should have samples available for those who need to make a decision on whether to buy it or not, though.

Can I just walk in to Target tomorrow and walk out with the CD set because I want to 'free it'? Prince saying he wanted to 'free the music' didn't mean that it would be cost-free, but free from outside control.

Serena said:

My point is that people feel like he hasn't "Freed the Music" because he's made a lot less material (both new and old) available for purchase than people expected back then.

Hence they deliver some payback by pirating. Again, I'm not justifying that, but I do think it's a part of the psychology.

What about the people who has paid membership yet are STILL unable to download the music, or navigate the site

What about the European fans who can afford the site but cant join because the site doesnt accept their payment details? Patience is a virtue yes but not every one has it, or lost it quickly this past week.

What about the fans who wish to have a look at the site but honestly CANT afford it?

Lastly what about all the fans worldwide who dont own credit cards?


[Edited 3/28/09 9:44am]

JOYJOY said:

While I understand what you're saying, impatience or not having access to something doesn't give you a right to it. I'm impatient about becoming a millionaire, just because I know ways that I could illegally acquire it doesn't make me getting it those ways justifiable.

BanishedBrian said:

Yeah, that's how they FEEL, but that doesn't make it right. What Prince wants to release is his decision, sure I want everything like everyone else, but I WANT to compensate him for it. I think the exact opposite of a lot of people, I think they SHOULD join just to pay him back for any unofficial product they have. I've tried to even out my Karma by always buying multiple official releases, concert tickets for me/friends, memorabilia, making donations to his & his associates' charities and never bitching about any pricing (I HAVE NO RIGHT TO and I know/admit it!).

Not to get all sappy, but I've made so many good friends and get so much enjoyment out of his performances and music that I truly feel I can't repay him. Geez, when you think that something you paid $10-$15 for (and he got about .10 off that sale back then), 25 years ago, can still make you smile and move, it's pretty special. Of course, the memories I have from live shows, the Celebrations, etc. are priceless and I wouldn't have them if it wasn't for him, so I'm grateful instead of hateful. (CORNY!!!!!)

JOYJOY said:

The people who've paid and are still having problems are a different story than Joe Public. There are ways to help fellow (or future) members without releasing stuff to the general public.

Why don't people get that there are things in life we can't all have all the time? What about me? I can't afford to buy a bunch of Prince stuff off eBay that I'd like, so should the sellers just give it to me instead?

If you don't have a credit card you can't do a lot of shit nowadays, but there are workarounds like pre-paid VISAs and MCs.

lezama said:

I liken it more to economic migrancy.. I know a number of illegal migrants working in menial jobs in the UK and sending money abroad to better their situation pending their return. (if they were legally able to work here & pay taxes they would) Of late the british government is considering changing the law to provide amnesty for illegal workers in order to get them signed up to pay taxes. They are here anyway so working with them is best for everyone.

Whereever the idea of opportunity exists there will always be gray areas to be exploited by the needy.. or greedy.


Likewise if some kind soul allows access to images and material for those unable to access the site, I have no issue with it. He should tighten his internet security protocols if he doesnt want it to happen, or get with the program and appreciate that there is a way for all fans to enjoy his material.

(Free site access that offers full downloads at a cost but a taster for free)
[Edited 3/28/09 10:34am]

Close2u said:

.

Serena said:

Those are all fair sentiments, but keep in mind that Prince has largely backtracked on things he's stated in the past, whether in interviews, press releases, or otherwise.

The SLAVE Prince told fans that freeing himself of the WB chains would allow him to release a lot more material than he has ultimately done. There are probably a lot of reasons why it's ended up that way, but part of it has to do with the fact that his current beliefs make him turn his back on a lot of what he did back then.

The argument that it's his music and his right to do what he want with it has some merit, but then he should have said that from the beginning instead of lobbying his fanbase to pressure WB for years only for him to have a change of heart about it.

Lastly, I disagree slightly with the argument that it's his right to decide what does and doesn't see the light of day. If you take his view that the songs are his children, does a parent own a child and have a right to dictate everything about their life, or do you eventually have to let it go?

It's one thing if Prince wants to keep all of the money off his work. I totally respect that. It's another if he wants to bury it because he's decided he doesn't like what it represents.

JOYJOY said:

So it's the 'well it's your fault I stole your TV, you didn't lock your door and then I left it open for others to help themselves too!' story, eh? You have no issue with non-payers accessing the content...ummm...do you own the site and did you create the material?

I do agree there should be a better front/free page, with samples.

JOYJOY said:

I'm from England and I only have a debit card (difficult to get a bank account without one). No credit card. I joined up no problem at all.

Serena said:

U 2 funny

Nope no issue at all with those UNABLE to pay accessing materials that have come from the site. I do have issue with peeps who REFUSE to pay, yet want the materials for free. For me there is a big difference between the two groups.

I also think that the materials that are swimming around at the moment will serve to better advertise the site and bring in new business for him.

JOYJOY said:

So because someone doesn't have money for something, they should still get it for free, while all the rest of us pay for it...ok.

BanishedBrian said:

We're getting way too broad here, but what does it matter if Prince said something many years ago? We're dealing with the here and now and whether or not it's right to take stuff you haven't paid for.

God forbid people should hold me to the stupid shit I've said and done over the past 30 years.

As for the children part, I'm a mother who will be protective of her child until the day I die. Even after they grow up, they're still your children. Now, since his songs aren't living creatures that mature without his input, then yes, he should have full control as long as HE wants.
[Edited 3/28/09 11:56am]