After listening to "Chocolate Box" and "There'll Never B Another Like Me," one of the reasons why I find myself not connecting with the song (musically or lyrically) is Prince just not being convincing to me as a hip hop style braggadocio I rock the party type of artist.

And the more I thought about it, I started thinking that the Prince I liked has nothing to do with old vs. new, but with vulnerable vs. cocky. Ever since "My Name is Prince and I am Funky" I've thought Prince's attempt at being cocky on record came off as corny, contrived, and weaksauce imitations of rappers bragging.

The Prince I connect with is the Prince who sings "I ain't got no money... ain't like the other guys you hang around..." (I Wanna B Your Lover) not the one who sings "I got a lot of money and I want to spend it on you" (The One You Want to See).

I guess in his early days he had "The Time" to channel his "I'm so cool" aesthetic through--they were the mouthpiece of the cockiness... and it worked for them. And him. He's always been more effective in my opinion of conveying that outsider, that person that isn't totally accepted, the misfit, who's just doing his own thing trying to get put on (by a girl, a public, etc.).

I know his circumstances have changed greatly since the hungry artist, but still... for me some of his greatest, most interesting music is made when singing from a perspective of vulnerability, someone asking questions, someone trying love. (The Beautiful Ones, Sometimes It Snows In April, When Does Cry, hell the whole Purple Rain, Pop Life, America, Condition of the Heart, even more recent stuff like Wasted Kisses, The Dance, Reflection, I Love You But I Don't Trust You Anymore, Somewhere Here On Earth, Fury, etc.)

These days it seems we're getting a whole lot of impenetrable facade, self-assuredness, almost arrogant preaching, giving answers, someone sweating himself. Life of the Party, The One You Want to See, There'll Never B Another Like Me, Undisputed... they just seem to fall flat for me.

Maybe you should psychoanalyze yourself and not Prince.

Best Bragging is CLOREEN BACON SKIN !

rwn said:

Read Nu's post again.

KeithyT said:

Thank you! I mean damn I was very careful to state these were MY reactions to the song and why one song connects with me while another doesn't. It was very subjective. And it just happened to resonate with other people. Some people

Nice and balanced op.

I think it was Diamonds and Pearls where Prince went from cocky rock star to full-on megalomaniac. Up until then, his braggadocio was a sort of strutting, winking swagger, sly and insouciant. It felt comfortable and natural. With D&P it became a neurotic tick. After the Graffiti Bridge debacle, you'd think Prince would have a thing or two to say about self-doubt and disappointment. But no, he makes a hard break toward narcissistic self regard. D&P is glossy and escapist, a gleaming shrine to his ego. He brags about his hits on Daddy Pop. He fawns over himself on Cream. He's God's messenger on Thunder and Willing and Able. On Gett Off, he says he's a 'talented boy.' On the title track, Money Don't Matter, and Live 4 Love, Prince puts on his paternalistic lecturing voice, talking down to others while he remains bullet proof.

Even his heartbreak songs cease to be vulnerable. They actually become more judgmental, accusing: 'Damn U,' 'I wanna curse U in the dark,' 'I Hate U,' 'I Don't Trust U Anymore'. They condemn, rather than grieve.

Lovesexy signaled Prince's flight from reality, and Diamonds and Pearls confirmed it. With D&P Prince barricaded himself in his fortress of talent, and lost contact with his fallible humanity. That's why his career unraveled the way it did. He became unresponsive to criticism, intolerant of negative feedback. His concerts promoting the Symbol Album opened with him burning bad reviews of his album (aping Morris Day's scene in GB where he torches the plant). That's a sign of someone who's not willing to listen to others.

After listening to "Chocolate Box" and "There'll Never B Another Like Me," one of the reasons why I find myself not connecting with the song (musically or lyrically) is Prince just not being convincing to me as a hip hop style braggadocio I rock the party type of artist.

And the more I thought about it, I started thinking that the Prince I liked has nothing to do with old vs. new, but with vulnerable vs. cocky. Ever since "My Name is Prince and I am Funky" I've thought Prince's attempt at being cocky on record came off as corny, contrived, and weaksauce imitations of rappers bragging.

The Prince I connect with is the Prince who sings "I ain't got no money... ain't like the other guys you hang around..." (I Wanna B Your Lover) not the one who sings "I got a lot of money and I want to spend it on you" (The One You Want to See).

I guess in his early days he had "The Time" to channel his "I'm so cool" aesthetic through--they were the mouthpiece of the cockiness... and it worked for them. And him. He's always been more effective in my opinion of conveying that outsider, that person that isn't totally accepted, the misfit, who's just doing his own thing trying to get put on (by a girl, a public, etc.).

I know his circumstances have changed greatly since the hungry artist, but still... for me some of his greatest, most interesting music is made when singing from a perspective of vulnerability, someone asking questions, someone trying love. (The Beautiful Ones, Sometimes It Snows In April, When Does Cry, hell the whole Purple Rain, Pop Life, America, Condition of the Heart, even more recent stuff like Wasted Kisses, The Dance, Reflection, I Love You But I Don't Trust You Anymore, Somewhere Here On Earth, Fury, etc.)

These days it seems we're getting a whole lot of impenetrable facade, self-assuredness, almost arrogant preaching, giving answers, someone sweating himself. Life of the Party, The One You Want to See, There'll Never B Another Like Me, Undisputed... they just seem to fall flat for me.

PurpleRain747 said:

I got a box of chocolates that'll rock your socks

is not immature? Not only is that immature, that is corny and embarrassing. Box, rock, socks - that's like Hip Hop Rhyme Writing 101. Jeesh. Worse when it's sung on autotune or with a voc box to emulate something T-Pain and Kanye West started doing LAST YEAR. It's not groundbreaking... it comes off as a pathetic attempt to be hip. And that's a problem with his swag songs of late, they seem desperate to compete with what is burning up the charts/radio these days.

It's like musically (and lyrically thematically) Prince is sweating all the latest trends and fads by emulating them... but then tells us in his songs that we should sweat HIM! It comes off as disingenuous and again, weak sauce.

NuPwrSoul said:

Think what u may...but Prince was in the music scene far b4 Mr. West or any of those u'v so mentioned.

NuPwrSoul said:

This is very interesting right here. I've never thought about this sort of thing with songs like those but I see what you're saying and I totally respect it. I can't really think to long about it right now but hasn't Prince always bragged about himself in songs thoughtout his whole career? He's always been cocky about himself, at least to me he has. It does make me want to hear these songs again to hear what you're saying. Cool thread.

purplecam said:

I think in his most effective brags, there's always a sense of humor so you know he isn't takin himself so seriously... Prettyman, Baby I'm a Star (I aint got no money but I'm rich in personality), Housequake (shut up already DAMN), the use of the "camille" voice to suggest a mischevious tone, etc.

After listening to "Chocolate Box" and "There'll Never B Another Like Me," one of the reasons why I find myself not connecting with the song (musically or lyrically) is Prince just not being convincing to me as a hip hop style braggadocio I rock the party type of artist.

And the more I thought about it, I started thinking that the Prince I liked has nothing to do with old vs. new, but with vulnerable vs. cocky. Ever since "My Name is Prince and I am Funky" I've thought Prince's attempt at being cocky on record came off as corny, contrived, and weaksauce imitations of rappers bragging.

The Prince I connect with is the Prince who sings "I ain't got no money... ain't like the other guys you hang around..." (I Wanna B Your Lover) not the one who sings "I got a lot of money and I want to spend it on you" (The One You Want to See).

I guess in his early days he had "The Time" to channel his "I'm so cool" aesthetic through--they were the mouthpiece of the cockiness... and it worked for them. And him. He's always been more effective in my opinion of conveying that outsider, that person that isn't totally accepted, the misfit, who's just doing his own thing trying to get put on (by a girl, a public, etc.).

I know his circumstances have changed greatly since the hungry artist, but still... for me some of his greatest, most interesting music is made when singing from a perspective of vulnerability, someone asking questions, someone trying love. (The Beautiful Ones, Sometimes It Snows In April, When Does Cry, hell the whole Purple Rain, Pop Life, America, Condition of the Heart, even more recent stuff like Wasted Kisses, The Dance, Reflection, I Love You But I Don't Trust You Anymore, Somewhere Here On Earth, Fury, etc.)

These days it seems we're getting a whole lot of impenetrable facade, self-assuredness, almost arrogant preaching, giving answers, someone sweating himself. Life of the Party, The One You Want to See, There'll Never B Another Like Me, Undisputed... they just seem to fall flat for me.

Damn this post is good.

padawan said:

so what do people think of "pretty man"? i think it falls somewhere in the
middle.

he's laughing at himself through the creation of a different persona imo
because that's not "prince" that's singing if you ask me.

but it's a good song. i like it a lot. and this type of bragging is just
funny and absolutely ok with me. i don't mind it one bit.

so what do people think of "pretty man"? i think it falls somewhere in the
middle.

he's laughing at himself through the creation of a different persona imo
because that's not "prince" that's singing if you ask me.

but it's a good song. i like it a lot. and this type of bragging is just
funny and absolutely ok with me. i don't mind it one bit.

Nice and balanced op.

I think it was Diamonds and Pearls where Prince went from cocky rock star to full-on megalomaniac. Up until then, his braggadocio was a sort of strutting, winking swagger, sly and insouciant. It felt comfortable and natural. With D&P it became a neurotic tick. After the Graffiti Bridge debacle, you'd think Prince would have a thing or two to say about self-doubt and disappointment. But no, he makes a hard break toward narcissistic self regard. D&P is glossy and escapist, a gleaming shrine to his ego. He brags about his hits on Daddy Pop. He fawns over himself on Cream. He's God's messenger on Thunder and Willing and Able. On Gett Off, he says he's a 'talented boy.' On the title track, Money Don't Matter, and Live 4 Love, Prince puts on his paternalistic lecturing voice, talking down to others while he remains bullet proof.

Even his heartbreak songs cease to be vulnerable. They actually become more judgmental, accusing: 'Damn U,' 'I wanna curse U in the dark,' 'I Hate U,' 'I Don't Trust U Anymore'. They condemn, rather than grieve.

Lovesexy signaled Prince's flight from reality, and Diamonds and Pearls confirmed it. With D&P Prince barricaded himself in his fortress of talent, and lost contact with his fallible humanity. That's why his career unraveled the way it did. He became unresponsive to criticism, intolerant of negative feedback. His concerts promoting the Symbol Album opened with him burning bad reviews of his album (aping Morris Day's scene in GB where he torches the plant). That's a sign of someone who's not willing to listen to others.

emesem said:

Great post! Dont you think Prince should go away for a while like Dave Chappelle and Lenny K and live his life for once? Introspective time to figure out who he is and what he really wants. It seems like he has always been playing a character.

Now imagine Prince as a grounded, mature, sophisticated man with a youthful innocence and playful sense of humor who can write a love song that will make you cry cause its so damm touching and still play the guitar like a mad man with lyrics of a deep philisophical nature. Riddles of knowledge and vulnerable moments all wrapped up in perfect little package.

IstenSzek said:

I categorized Pretty Man as passable precisely because of the sense of humor... he's not taking himself seriously, and its witty. He's laughing about his hair (I just buy some more), etc. The "Tricky" voice he uses when talking about himself give it a mischievousness that works, as it does in Housequake, or even F.U.N.K. It's the kind of stuff that I think he once channeled through Morris Day.

so what do people think of "pretty man"? i think it falls somewhere in the
middle.

he's laughing at himself through the creation of a different persona imo
because that's not "prince" that's singing if you ask me.

but it's a good song. i like it a lot. and this type of bragging is just
funny and absolutely ok with me. i don't mind it one bit.

People will take issue with what I'm about to say, I'm sure - but I think the braggadocio really started the fall flat around the time he got religious.

Genesia said:

Not trying ot take issue, but when would you say he got religious?

KeithyT said:

Thank you! I mean damn I was very careful to state these were MY reactions to the song and why one song connects with me while another doesn't. It was very subjective. And it just happened to resonate with other people. Some people

NDRU said:

I see where you're going. To some extent, he's always been religious - and incorporated religious themes into his work. But where in the 80s it was an amorphous, general Christian vibe...by around 2000 it became very dogmatic and, dare I say, stodgy.