Just got this email from Amazon. I presume that this is an admin issue rather than anything similar to the Black album...

Dear Customer,

We wanted to give you an update on the status of your order #

We are sorry to report that the release of the following item has been
cancelled:

Prince Featuring the debut album by Bria Valente "Lotus Flow3r"

This item has now been cancelled from your order and we can confirm that you have not been charged for it.

Please accept our apologies for any disappointment or inconvenience caused.

That's fucked up.

I just got the email too - what the hell is going on?!

could be he's done a deal with someone else, newspaper perhaps? I remember pre-ordering Planet Earth from amazon, then it got removed after he did the deal with the Mail On Sunday.

What I suspect is that the release was never actually confirmed for Amazon.co.uk and they just put something up as a placeholder.

The Price was probably just an estimate based on the usual cost of 3 Cd set, as Amazon have a Price guarantee to charge the lowest Price they wouldn't want to risk a massive increase.

I also can't see Prince make another Newspaper deal in the UK. Last time it was used as a promotional tool for the O2 residency. The Record label who were going to distribute Planet Earth had to cancel their UK release when Prince went with the newspaper deal, so I can see any other label being afraid of it happening again.

I'm not currently aware of any UK chains having made exclusive deals like the one Target has done. Maybe someone can correct me on that.

I'm thinking at this moment out only real option is to wait for an announcement from Prince, or settle on the fact that we may just have to buy from eBay/amazon marketplace.

PhilBH said:

I agree. It is not going to be much of a release then will it?. The UK media and music mags won't be behind it. It will be seen as somewhat of a step down if it is only released in the states and not worldwide as all his previous releases.
pity.

If he'd have gone with Wallmart as someone suggested way way back when this was a rumour-then I could be at my local Asda in seconds lol. Terrible as it sounds at this rate im gonna end up getting a torrent and waiting for the bargain bins to get copies. remind me again-how long had he been doing this.....

he obviously forgot to wear a condom.

lol-ok-i've tried. I still don't get it.....

Rorywan said:

Hopefully Prince will be able to secure proper distribution of Lotusflow3r in the UK, but it may not be at the same time as in the US.

As an example, Diana Krall's forthcoming album will be available in the US around 2-3 months before the UK version will appear, so it isn't unprecedented for an album to be released at different times in different territories.

Prince is an artist trying to work outside the traditional label system, and has tried many different ways of distributing his own music. Free CDs on the musicology tour, newspaper covermount CD, last year's book and now distribution through a retailer. It may not please all of us, but he is trying to get his music out in a way that give him total control over the content.

It's a shame that record labels don't view Prince as the film industry does Woody Allen. His movie are never going to make massive amounts of money on first release, but they will always be highly regarded and will continue to make money over a long period of time. The studio just take pride in being involved with the auteur.

I'm a big fan of the physical formats, so an MP3 download will not be good enough for me in the long run, but while I wait for some news then I guess it will be my only option.

funksoldier said:

Maybe Prince's people have seen the markup that Amazon was doing and advised him that they were trying to RIP OFF fans/fams so he pulled it...i bet prince was not going to get any part of the £33.00 GBP which works out to be $47.00 USD when he's selling it in the US with Target who use Amazon at $11.98 or RRP of $20.99 dollars.....I hope this is the case ....not only was Prince fams/fans getting RIPPED OFF but Prince was as well ....

LondonStyle said:

I disagree with £33 being expensive.

I bought an import of 'Sheryl Crow live at the Budokan', a single disc, for £26. I remember going around HMV looking for imports, and many would be of a similar price.

Now, if this disc wasn't an import, I still say that it wasn't a price based on an actual RRP. It was most likely a guess based on the price of 1 CD x 3 so as to insulate Amazon from any possible price increases.

As for why the disc has been pulled, I wouldn't be surprised that Amazon have become fed up of fielding requests from irate fans wanting to know why they were being "ripped off" and decided to take it down until they have any actual information.

So you can see what Amazon do, here's what they e-mailed me after my 21 nights book was shipped



I'm sure, had they not pulled the set off the site now, the same would have happened this time. It is the reason I have no issues in pre-ordering with Amazon, I know that at the end of the day, I will always be charged a fair price.

PhilBH said:

I take your point...but i've already done my homework on this.....and there really is no need to charge these RIP OFF prices...look at what our fellow Europeans are paying...that shows you...

£33.29 wtf....36.37 Euro..wtf...that's $47.09 dollars .....wtf....Amazon...get your calculator out and look at your pricing....We have the internet over in the uk we know you have a deal with Target until 2010 ...you provide their e-commerce ...so it's not gonna cost that much come stop ripping people off...

Hardcore Prince Fan's please ask amazon to look at their pricing as they are taking the piss with that...

The Hits/w /B side is £17.98 x 3 CD's...
Emancipation is £20.49 x 3 Cd's....

And these Cd's are 10 years old ???? wtf .....

Prince's People sort it out you math is all wrong ...speak to Amazon

yeah me too had email abt tht as well


wondering whats going on !!!!!

but luckily enough l got one friend from myspace who would get it for me in the states so she will post them to me .....

PhilBH said:

I'm not sure Prince previously had issues with 'control over content' with record labels... It always seemed to be about 'owning the recordings' (in other words 'he wanted to make more money from the recordings')

The difference with the way Woody Allen works and Prince (apart from the obvious) is that I'm pretty sure when Woody Allen makes a movie he does not think it is going to be a huge hit or a box office record breaker. Prince on the other hand still obviously believes that he is writing albums that should be selling millions (instead of a few hundred thousand) ...hence the reason he was so upset with Clive Davis a few years back when his song didn’t chart.

Prince also has burnt nearly every bridge in the music industry …. Lets be honest, who would really want to work with him these days? you know a few months down the line he’s going to drop the project and start blaming the label for the lack of success.
(I have never heard Woody Allen complain about the ‘gate-keepers’ in the movie industry that are holding him back from having hit movies )

LondonStyle said:

I tried to work out some numbers myself, and what I concluded, based on the LIST PRICE of $22 (not the $11.98 which could be a pre-order price or time limited in some way), after adding all the import duties and VAT I was reaching a price of £20 per disc, excluding Amazon UK's profit on the item. I normally see imports being marked up by a 1/3 of what it cost me to import it personally.

Although they look after the distribution for Target, they aren't the ones who have the deal with Prince. I'm guessing that Taget have an agreement with Amazon for X $ a year to handle the sale and distribtion of CDs/DVDs, probably only a few cents per item.

LondonStyle said:

That's possibly why they took it down in the first place. Too many Prince fans e-mailing to complain about the price. Have you ever tried getting sensible information from Amazon's customer support? Usually you get a pro-forma response

"we're sorry you are dissapointed...please accept out apologies...amazon have no control over the availability/price of releases".

LondonStyle said:

If you base their estimated price on Emancipation - £20.49 + 3.5% import Duty + 15% VAT = £24.39 Unit cost. Give them their profit, and you are up to £33 easily.

LondonStyle said:

Or, to put it another way "Prince, get your people to sort out a proper distribution deal with Amazon UK"

I must say, I'm quite impressed with this thread. an intelligent discussion about something for a change - rather than "what colour socks does prince wear on a Friday?"

johnny2000 said:

That's true to some extent, but at the end of the day he wanted the control over his own own output. At the time of his battle with Warner, everyone would mock Prince for his attempts to regain control of his work. In recent years, many other artists have come out demanding similar things (courtney Love, Robbie Wiliams), and they get praised for doing it. At the end of the day, it is all about maximising the amount they get paid for their work, and that only happens with control over their outputs.

johnny2000 said:

I think prince knows that he will never sell CDs by the millions anymore. When was the last time he did? Diamonds and pearls?

Clive Davis had helped give Santana massive success, and Prince had hoped that he would have done the same for him. When this didn't pan out, I can't say I blame him for being upset about it. It was the whole expectation of success.

johnny2000 said:

Prince has, in recent years, been getting a lot more respect for the talented musician that we all know him to be. I never expected him to be able to sell out 21 nights in london, but based on his reputation as an excellent showman people turned up in their thousands. It's this reputation that should make a label want to work with him.

The money is no longer made on CD sales. It's the live performances that keeps Prince in Dimaond encrusted these days. The CD is now a promotional tool for the live shows, rather than the other way around.

PhilBH said:

Thanks for the info...just wanted to add one thing the Price for Emancipation is the Amazon UK price so margin, duty and profit is included so the price of £20.49 stands at it's been this price for a good while...

The other point was Target and Amazon as Amazon will be holding the stock for online line orders and doing the e-commerce side for Target their is really no extra cost for them as a business ...as they ship to the UK everyday of the week the whole "import" stuff is a bit 1980's and an excuess to make unfair margin.....but that's big coporations for you....



+ they get away from paying tax and duty as they are based in Isle of Man ..
[Edited 3/19/09 8:05am]

LondonStyle said:

I would guess that, as Target have a deal with Amazon for US distribution only, that is why we're not able to place an order from the UK. Amazon.com can't do what they want with the stock, as it's an exclusive deal with Target.

Amazon have distribution points all over the UK, so they don't get away with not paying the Taxes - I remember them discussing their depots on the news when one of the Harry Potter books was released. It's Play.com who are based in Jersey, so they do get away with it.

PhilBH said:

No they have a Jersey arm but it's not called Amazon... but it's the same company....we some of the european retailers can get from the states at a better price than we can...so they can't use that one on us....

The world is a much smaller place ...the game has changed and as we now see what happends in the US effect us in Europe so the import stuff is cover for bumping up taxes and margins...which we understand but amazon tried to get away with a $35 dollar per cd increase....come on guys...Prince is not even getting a cut of that...I bet that's why it's been pulled...for now

PhilBH said:

I think Prince has always had a great deal of respect as a live performer and musician... but people lost interest in his studio recordings years ago. Now he's just a 'greatest hits' concert performer live ... and that sells a lot of tickets but it's not very challenging. 15+ years of treading water musically has turned him into a Vegas style act when playing big venues.

As for being upset with Clive Davis.. it's too easy to point the finger of blame at everyone else, Rave was a complete turkey of an album.

People mocked Prince because of the way he went to war with Warners, it was all about 'him' getting 'his' songs back. If I recall Courtney Love exposed the bad deals songwriters and artists had been getting, it was not all about 'her' getting 'her' songs back.

I totally understood the issues Prince had (I was also signed to Warners at the same time) but he went about his business the wrong way…. It wrecked his career for years.

johnny2000 said:

What this got to do with his European / International fans being charged $47.50 USD Dollars....?

LondonStyle said:

I have no idea ha-ha (sorry)