ThreadBare said:

Everlasting Now does...U make My Sunshine is up there with some of his 80's work..I can go on...shall we?

rdhull said:

Yes, please. Continue. I want this to be a balanced discussion.

FirstAvenue said:

I Love You But Dont Trust you is up there with Parade material..

When I Lay My Hands On You is up there with material on ATWIAD..etc..

the point os nothing now is going to have the magic of past greatness because we have those old tunes are engrained in our head...growth is never seen as being "as good as ya used ta be". But its there, and even though we are right now talking about recent output comparing to older output,the original argument was that Wendy and Lisa are so called gods and Prince made his best music with only them..thats why everyone creams all over themselves when they hear Joy In Repetition or AnnaStesia...thank GOD those two left..or else we'd still be hearing shit like "floating on a dream la la la!"

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[This message was edited Thu Dec 5 21:09:17 PST 2002 by rdhull]

I think that the people that Prince is around play a big influence on him, like how W and L did, and the people before that and so on. To make it even more clear on what I am trying to say, W and L introduced Prince to a lot of music that he didn't really pay intention to until they both started puttin' him up on music from artist like The Beatles, Led Zepplin, Pink Floyd etc. Before Prince was a fien for artist like JB, Hendrix, Sly, Stevie etc. more soul type of stuff. And when W and L shared their taste of music with him, he dug it, and incorparted it into his music, with W and L suggestions, and help of course. When he changed bands, their influence took toll on him too. SOTT/Lovesexy band took where I think would would have gone years before if W and L didn't ever pop up. The NPG early 90s had a major hip hop influence on him, that I think he could have done without. And as you see now, he is with musicians like Candy Dulfer who is more Jazzy, and Maceo who is more Funk Soul. And well all know that he has incorparated these styles into his music long before, but being around those artist brings that out side out of him, and reflects heavily on his music. But of course thats an opinion, and Im rambling, so never mind me.

camille2002 said:

Nobody disputes that--everyone in a band etc gets influenced..but right here, people are saying W&L produced Princes best music ever and I'm saying that's a lie-myth.

rdhull said:

Joy in Repetition was recorded in 1986 (during the Dream Factory sessions, I believe)

Any talented person (and Wendy and Lisa are definitely talented) who works with Prince is going to be the beneficiary. And Prince will likewise be the beneficiary of them.

But the one constant is Prince.

If Wendy and Lisa are the talent behind Prince, isn’t strange that none of the other people they’ve worked with since have become huge superstars that are respected the world over.

rdhull said:

And I am saying that I agree with you 100%, I think thats fullofshit personally. I do like W and L don't get me wrong, but they're a bit overrated if you ask me. I think they influenced him, but not compose or produce the music like some of us would like to believe. I give them credit for introducing him to new styles, and playing the instruments that they play very well. And I think thats all the credit they have earned, unless you like the stuff they did together, which i really can't get into, although I wish I could, cause I would have some extra music to listen to. But I would rather her them all day than anything on the radio, especially the radio station out here in the Bay Area.

FirstAvenue said:

July 17th to be exact..and it sounds like he was alone just like he was with WDC, darling Nikki and Beautiful Ones.

And another thing..they didn't "introduce" Princ e to clasical etc...hell he was proppin Joni Mitchell on Controversy cover..he was doing Im Yours type of music on his debut. Some people make it sound like he couldn't play piano, never heard of Beethoven etc. until they showed up. He may have explored that route because his new band and new audience ( gee...thanks) but they didn't say 'listen to this Prince..this is called 'classical'..this is called 'acoutsic' wiht Prince goin "hey--neve rheard this stuff..it's cool'"

rdhull said:

who said they introduced prince to classical. and speaking of joni, the for you lp sound like its very influenced by her. i know he has always loved her music, but how could you not, shes a fuckin' genius too. there are a lot of wannabes, but they can't fuck with joni.

camille2002 said:

well "they" say that W&L introduced Prince to classical and and different music all the time--W&L 'broadeend' his horizons "they" do! I seent it!


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[This message was edited Thu Dec 5 22:16:27 PST 2002 by rdhull]

I won't say I missed them that much... Sometimes I fancy about a project with them and prince but really i think this is just a page form the purple that has been turned...

ThreadBare said:

Why do you pick one of P's recent dreadful songs?
I much prefer a "Everlasting now" than a "Mountain"

Moreover back in the 80s Prince was still fresh and new. Now we are in 2002. It's getting harder to surprise and please.

I like Wendy and Lisa and the contributions they made to Prince's music,but...


I was glad when Prince got rid of the old Revolution and started what became known as the Lovesexy Band.No offense to Lisa,Wendy,and Bobby but I think Prince's music became funkier and jazzier after they left.He got more in touch with his funk roots and his Live performances were much better.

All I have to say is...Dream Factory Sessions.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

all I have to say...Sign Of The Times

rdhull said:

Mr Hull:

I'm just making the argument that they aren't as bad as others claim and that they did contribute to his musical inspiration.

The thing I love most about Sign of the Times is it's direct about face compared to Parade. Who could have seen that shit coming? Took my ass by surprise that's for sho

Refering to their working relationship with prince, wendy stated that ''Prince was the chef and Lisa and herself were the spice''. she went on say that prince was he genius in the group and that his greatest music remains within him.

Prince wrote some of the greatest pop songs ever when Wendy And Lisa were working with him and there is no doubt their influence was massive. Check out their solo work, some would say it's Princesque. Which is on the contrary as Princes work with W&L was actually Wendy And Lisa-esque. Following me?! I love what Prince is doing now but where are the truly great pop/funk treasures?! There aren't any and until Prince works with great songwriters there won't be many to follow.

...outta Here

WildheartXXX said:

And when they werent working with him..never forget that



Yeah I follow you..and if it is their influence I have to give them a big fuck you finger for taking him away from what should have been post 1999 music instead of that momentum stopping ATWIAD shit(with all hangers on adding their stuff..folks wanted Prince music..not Jonathans crap, not Wendys crap etc).You following me?!!..they changed his vision and only because his popularity was at the apex is why those tunes are engrained in your membrane. Those werent his greatest tunes...pffft. And hate to burst yo bubble, but those tunes were Princes'-(see Eavesdropping In Intimate Moments for skeletonal piano versions of Raspberry etc that he would later finish..so it isn't like W&L even made up tunes..they may have embellished them from what Prince had already made up..yeah thats what they are...embellishers lol).



There are many..and no..some do not meaure up to SOTT, Lovesexy, Dirty Mind, or Controversy standards. "Thanks for comin out, god bleth"-Russel Simmons

Hell no!his early band with Dez at guitar was pretty much the purple rain sound.Listen to 1999 and purple rain,the sound is there.Plus alot of musicians said wendy and lisa were sub par musicians and that Prince should have picked a better band to perform.

RdHull: do you have something against Wendy & Lisa?

rdhull said:

Yeah i guess you're right. Maybe i just miss the wierdness then, you know the quirkiness of that whole era and the people around him. His band now are solid no doubt and better musicians, there's just not much sparkle or identity with those he works with.

lovebizzare said:

No..Wendy used to pull Princes underarm hair and play around..making him more human and accessible ot his crew etc. Lisa sounded wonderful in the sudio with her ethereal voice and her keys..plus she smoked. Ive seen them live front of stage at The Roxy. I have nothing against them save for them getting a big head after Prince made them stars. I just trip on how people make it sound as if they are the reason for Princes' so called best music. Devils advocate ya know..if not, that is how misinformation and myths form. We cannot let that happen.

WildheartXXX said:

While I agree there is not much perosnality feel that once was, we must realize there arent movies and videos bombarding us with those people he is now with. And the Lovesexy band and Gold band members were seen as having a strong personality for backing Prince..Rhonda gets shouted at in concerts, Blackwell does too. Renato is heralded. Folks cheer on candy when she makes the scene. There are not videos or movies allowing the accessibility of them nor allowing familiarity as much as those in the 80s were allowed. We must take these things into account.

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[This message was edited Fri Dec 6 19:37:24 PST 2002 by rdhull]

rdhull said:

camille2002 said:

JB, Hendrix, Sly, and Stevie are EVERY bit as different from each other as the Beatles, Zep and Floyd are different from each other. All the former four aren't soul type of music, that's patently untrue. Just because they're all Black doesn't mean they're soul music artists in the strict sense.

I don't understand this mentality that Wendy & Lisa introduced Prince to a supposedly wider scope of music. Someone also at one time said that they introduced Prince to jazz music. Yeah...

Prince's father was a jazz musician. Prince also grew up in a city that doesn't have a large percentage of Blacks - why wouldn't he already have been exposed to the likes of the Beatles/Zep/Floyd who are huge in every corner of the world and have to wait for someone to bring them to his attention? Musically speaking he did not live in a vacuum.

Like any very young, wet-behind-the-ears, potentially great musician it was obvious that Prince was going to incorporate different infuences into his music as time went on, it was also obvious that he was evolving and coming into his own as the late '70s came to a close and the '80s came around. Every album was stylistically different, and more accomplished, from the first to last even before the Wendy/Lisa duo.

Sure, there's no doubt he was influenced by what they brought to the table for him. But it's not like he had to wait for someone to bring it to his table when he was inquisitive about music in general in the first place - and his music pre-Wendy/Lisa showed that he was. His musical growth was evident before his mainstream commercial success. And I think it's partly because of that success that it makes everyone overestimate them sometimes. This is the reason people here constantly bring up what he SHOULD do to get back on the pop charts. But then, I don't expect anyone to admit it.

WildheartXXX said:

All that and more..and it all boils down to this..before I say it let me reiterate that The Stones, Clapton, Clinton, James Brown do not make the same "raw"? music that they used to either...but Prince for the most part has remained inspired in some aspects...TRC is a return to form regardless of what the content is...it all boils down to this...folks always hold Prince up to an impossible standard. Why? Could be because he is great ..could be that his attitude doesn't allow for leniency..his suing etc regardless for principle doesn't help much nor does his busines practices or prices...but lemme say that The Stones tickets for decent seats were 300 and up--sure you got a hell of a stage show with the longstanding rock performers ever but their recent releases arent as relevant as their past heyday...but their live shows make up for that and the fans know it. Prince for some reason isn't allowed that luxury. His material and output, hell his practices are all fodder for condemnation. Mick Jagger is 3 times as ruthless in business as Prince. But people dont see the big picture.

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[This message was edited Fri Dec 6 20:25:06 PST 2002 by rdhull]

Supernova said:

Who said they introduced him to jazz? Whoever said that needs to be slapped. I love W+L but come on.....
[This message was edited Fri Dec 6 20:35:23 PST 2002 by lovebizzare]
[This message was edited Fri Dec 6 20:36:34 PST 2002 by lovebizzare]