"The Sun, the Moon and Stars" on Rave un2...

supercute has a reggae vibe

jill4life said:

From what I understand, at some point a copy of the lyrics should have been filed with the copyright office. And since they are public records, you could in theory, request a copy of everything filed.

[b]don't forget about "splash"

BrotherMaurice said:

Absolutely true.

But in this case, is there any evidence that a sample is all that Prince provided, other than assumptions?

This thread.

schming said:

Nope, but equally Prince being listed as co-writer with Marley at ASCAP does not prove he actually wrote a song with Marley, as I showed with the "03 Bonnie..." sample (there are many others)

So until you can show any evidence i'm going with the accepted view with the majority of Prince and Marley historians that the two never worked together

The 12" remix for "Pink cashmere" has a raggae rap in it:

djdaffy1227 said:

Hey, how about letting me borrow that for a minute?

awww come on now. historians my ass. historians say that columbus discovered america too. dont believe everything u read brother.

so-called "historians" and hardcore boot collectors don't know jack about who Prince talks to and doesn't talk to. they can't tell you who he's hung out with and not hung out with. seriously. thats absurd.

...and keep in mind, we're talking about 30 years ago. these great and powerful historians of which u speak were probably no more than teenagers at the time.

besides...ask yourself this question:

If bob was allegedly "too busy" to work with prince and was allegedly "uncomfortable" with prince - why would bob turn around and snatch a prince sample and use it on one of his records? just to make a hit? very un-bob-like i'd say.

but if bob did use a sample from a prince song, as you are suggesting, that would seem to indicate some form of favorable relationship between the two...as opposed to "uncomfortable", as your book claims...

so which is it? bob didnt like him or did he?

prince's fukry was so bad that bob had to have it on his record?

why is the song unreleased? is that not a prince-like thing to do?

why is prince's company "controversy music" listed as the publisher and administrator of a song that bob wrote, if prince had nothing to do with it but a sample?

did bob sell the rights to prince - whom he was uncomfortable with and had no time for?

why does the copyright record specifically say there was a sample of "covert action" - but made no mention of any prince sample?


to me, it doesn't add up. so i'm gonna stick with what the copyright record says.

now that i think about it...if prince and co. own the admin & publishing rights to the song, then they are the ones who had it listed in ascap, which means that:

a. a proper recording of it does in fact exist somewhere.
b. at some point, prince was planning to sell it and/or have it played on air.
c. somehow, prince owns a song that bob wrote.

so again, why and how would prince come to own this song if all prince had to do with it was provide a sample?

why would bob & co. have given it up to prince, if the song was "mostly bob" with just a little sample of prince?

to me, prince's motivation to own and control the song is obvious, and it just doesn't seem like something he'd "take back" from the legend that is Bob Marley unless he had an intimate roll in creating it.

perhaps prince played one (or more ) of the instruments on the track....perhaps he spoke with bob about the lyrics briefly...i certainly cant say...but prince is obviously very interested in that particular song....

why? is the 25 cent question

jimino1 said:

Love these songs.

Since Prince knows the attitude, I wonder if Prince will do, "Mr. Lova Lova," by Shaggy? I hope so.

schming said:

Don't wanna get in between U guys cuz I ain't never heard of the song in my life but it just occured 2 me... Is it possible that it's a Prince song (That's now gathering dust in the vault) that samples a Bob Marley track? Could have been written 4 an associate artist but never used or something like that?

^It's possible, and would explain the publishing rights

@Schwing, You are twisting my words, I never said this was a Bob song sampling Prince, but most likely a song that samples both artists.

To be honest it doesn't even have to be a sample, it could just be lyrics, or a melody "stolen" from one of their songs, it would be enough to claim Writing Credit and royalties.
The fact it also has Peter Tosh listed says to me this credit relates to an early Wailers tune, pre 1974, which was the last time Bob and Pete wrote together!
I take your point about historians, but can you really dimiss the words of Don Taylor so easily? This was his manager, the man who instigated the meeting between the two and a man who barely left bobs side for the last few years of his life.

And answer me this, if, as you suggest, Prince and Bob collaberated together sometime between 1979-81 (along with Peter Tosh and black sabbath bassist Butler:shrug:), why would he wait until 2003 to register it??

That's bullshit; in 1980 Prince was still a newcomer while Bob Marley was a huge star, the "Prince" listed as co-writer is not your "Prince", maybe it was just Bob using one of his many pseudonyms.
Bob Marley never used any sampling for his music, there was not many machines like that at that time anyways (Fairlight, Synclavier).

BrotherMaurice said:

I'm not quite sure why Prince has a credit on this song. Oh wait, yeah I remember, Beyonce directly lifts the melody and half the lyrics to 'If I was Your Girlfriend' on her bridge towards the end of the song.

I find the song very distateful though and here's why.

The music and chorus (HELL, EVEN THE NAME OF THE FUCKING SONG) to this song was directly lifted from Tupac's song 'Me and My Girlfriend' which is why Tupac and the producer Tyrone Wrice have writing credits. The irony is that, Tupac's song was from the MAKAVELI - 7 DAY THEORY album, on which Tupac dissed Jay-Z pretty hard.

I mean, I know he showed tribute to 'Pac in the video.....but wake up Jigga, DUDE DID NOT LIKE YOU ONE BIT.

I think it's a punk thing for Jay to have done. 'Pac would not want Jay making money off of his work. Not to mention, I don't know how Jay can even take something from an album that cussed him.

comegetwild said:

He really sucks at Reggae if you ask me.

ChimChimBadass said:

Actually the Prince listed there is indeed PRINCE ROGERS NELSON.

But every shred of evidence here points to nothing more than Prince sampling a Wailers song, thus Bob and Pete having writing credits.

There's nothing more to it than that.

Militant said:

This makes sense.

Militant said:

For Real....he did what ??? Tell Me more....???

He used to a cover of lively up yourself pretty frequently. I don't remember him playing it reggae style, but it was the same lyrics to Bob Marley's.

Militant said:

Careful, unless you want to be labeled a "Fucking Amateur" and told to "STFU"

BrotherMaurice said:

thats right. and i smell better than you too. so there.

prince sampling a wailers song? ....hmmm interesting

i think its more likely that prince did a 'cover' of bobs song and re-wrote it altogether....maybe with a sample of covert action in it too?

i say that because sampling someone else's music isn't something prince really does a lot of - but covers on the other hand, are.

i suppose its not out of the question...

Is it possible or probable that Prince wrote the song and approached Marley with it in partnership, given Prince's penchant for writing songs for others?

BrotherMaurice said:

during this period, things were tense between bob and peter tosh; the wailers had disbanded and bob carried on, on his own...so, i was also surprised to the tosh included

BrotherMaurice said:

LOL.

I'm no new-jack to this, I'm a professional musician myself and register songs on the MCPS/PRS and ASCAP databases regularly. Ahhh, the hours I've spent searching my favorite artists on there to find details of unreleased cuts...

comegetwild said:

Err...I'm pretty sure they COULD do all of those genres you mentioned.

As previously stated, Ziggy Marley does rock and indeed he covered that very style of music on his first solo album "Dragonfly."

Also, if you know anything about reggae music, you'd be aware of the fact that they love soul music and in fact are very heavily influenced by the likes of Curtis Mayfield and Marvin Gaye.

Damn near every reggae artist I've heard openly mentions these artists and how they all grew up listening to their songs on the radio.

There's a band called Third World who covered a song called "Now That We Found Love," which was originally recorded by the O Jays.

They also did a remake of "It's The Same Old Song," which was a Four Tops song at first.

As for Prince doin' reggae....yeah right!

If it's one thing he isn't aside from a rapper, it's a dreadlocked Rastaman singing conscious reggae riddims.

Songs like "Blue Light," "Ripopgodazippa" and "The Sun Moon & Stars" only further prove this point. I mean, yeah they're decent enough songs, but they're sure as hell NOT reggae songs in my eyes.

I didn't even know "Blue Light" was mean to be reggae til I heard a live version on a bootleg many years after the album came out.

Can you imagine Prince with his hair all twisted up in dreads, smokin a fat spliff and pounding on a bongo drum shouting "JAH!!!!!.....RASTAFARI...."

What about him tokin on a fatty and lookin up at you all stoned saying, "Yah mon, give t'anks....give all t'anks and praises to Rastafari. Seen? I&I like Ital food. Seen?"

Neither can I.

Case closed.

anc282 said:

Nahhh dreddy...case nah close yet.
Sooooo.....basically...wat you're sayin is that...
reggae should only be linked to dreads,
burnin a spliff,
drummin and and shoutin "Haile-I Selassie-I the first...Jah! Ras Tafari!"?
(I'm not talkin bout whether Prince's 'reggae-ish' tunes can really be classed as reggae)
But u sound like u puttin us in a box dreddd.
Aren't u West Indian too?

Nah I'm a white boy from Sydney, but I'm lovin the reggae vibes right now...have been since the end of '07 at least.

Anyways, I don't think Prince does reggae very well, but...that's just me.