Is he ever going to let the music breathe again? I can't stand the processed guitars, airtight drums, & super dry vocals (or whatever he's using for reverb on that super polished yuck). What he needs to do is dirty up the sound, a lot. Make it real again.

I think he'd be a lot better off closing Paisley down and driving across town to studio Z, and letting the 8th best producer in Minneapolis do sound.

abigail05 said:

Part of me agrees with you, but the other part says that Prince could never ever let anyone produce him - it COULDNT work. He fought to produce his own music from the beginning - why would he surrender that when he is finally in total control of his output?

I guess part of the Paisley Park thing is that he has all the time in the world to keep overdubbing and polishing up the tracks - tweaking them to his hearts content - whereas when he was in expensive studios he had to be more impulsive and finish tracks quickly. There's a spontaneity missing from his music.

I would say its been a major problem ever since Emancipation (wasn't this the last time he let someone (co-)produce his tracks?).

He's capable of acheiving most sounds i guess - its more a question of where his head is at in terms of what sound he's going for. Id like him to just produce an album of 8 track music - raw and funky with minimal programming.

I really like the sound of the Lotusflow3r tracks so far. They seem to be going for a simpler approach - although Forever's pretty melody gets lost in over-production and an overly complicated arrangement.
[Edited 1/30/09 3:54am]

i JUST WANT PRINCE to stop thinkin talkin about what he used to the way he used to (i.e sex) ia sinning which i feel all his JW friends are tellin him
I dont want him to stop producing because all his hits in the past where done by him..just want people around him that can help influence his sound..be more innovative LIKE lisa and wendy were

Prince was quite adamant from the begining that no one was gonna produce his music. I'ts his music he know's what he want's. I love all his music I don't have a problem with it.He's doing ok.

Perhaps he could use some "space" in his music. I know the tracks on the album "Dirty Mind" were apparently demos, but it was kind of nice how, for example, he would just let that one C-note ride forever at the beginning and middle-sections of the song, "Dirty Mind".

Nowadays it seems like if there IS space on a track, he tends to quickly fill it up with something - a sound effect, vocal, etc - instead of just letting the air fill it.

Prince will never again let anyone produce his stuff, because his EGO is much too large for anyone else to get credit for anything in the music.

For instance, it must have drove him mad for Wendy, Lisa and others in The Revolution to get accolades re: those works. I mean, he painted the picture of boy genius who did everything himself, but I think its no coincidence that Prince solo SUCKS SHIT.











,
[Edited 1/30/09 13:55pm]

Im fine with what he is doing.

He'd find a way to beat the air out of the track, no matter who produced it.

Rockability said:

berniejobs said:

I agree with this, to some extent. There's a ton of space on Black Sweat, for example. And it works, of course. I think he's still good about putting space in his music, but the effects, horrible mixing and trend-chasing gimmickry don't complement his genius.

funksterr said:

You're probably right.


However, I'd love a tough producer to crack the whip on him. I'm not talkin radio friendly album. I'm talkin album that contains Crystal Ball (The song) quality songs.

ThreadBare said:

i agree black sweat is a well produced song, i dont think his production is a problem - i think his song writing is.

prince's genius is that he used to write the catchiest and coolest songs ever, thats why he was covered so much by other artists. I dont think anyone would cover his output in the last 15 years (and get a hit out of it).

to be honest im fine with it, ive lowered my expectations with prince and so now i can listen to 3121 and not mind that the songs are fairly average because it's still prince singing and playing guitar, etc and i like listening to that.

vinx98 said:

My gripe with Prince (studio-wise) has been the processors he uses for his sound -- especially his guitar. That he's begun drowning his vocals in similar effects is anything but good, IMO.

The only thing a producer will do for Prince is make him sound like he did 25 years ago.

Been There
Done That
I'll Pass

He's worked too hard to let some jackass "producer of the moment" who can't lace his high heels fuck with his vision!!! Like some asshole in a too tight Ed Hardy shirt with 1/1000th of his talent but twice his ego is gonna make Prince a better musician!!!

Paris9748430 said:

That's an extreme position.

There's no reason why someone like a Raphael Saadiq, Marcus Miller, Brian Eno or Stevie Wonder couldn't produce a Prince record.

My vote would be for Marcus: Incredible musical chops, jazz history (played with & produced Miles) and funky as all get-out.

I've long believed he's the "Negro(es) from Brooklyn (who) plays the bass pretty good" that P references in "Dead on It."

Prince can be produced well by someone of that calibre. Ego's a terrible thing.

Marcus Miller it is then!
Brian Eno would be very interesting too.

Rockability said:

I know you W&L revisionists like to paint the incorrect picture that W&L were responsible for Prince's greatest musical successes, but when you wake up, try to join us in the real world. "Prince solo" as you term it, was responsible for most of his best songs/biggest hits. He did not have to paint a picture of "boy genius" who did everything himself - it was not a picture, it was a fact. It's cool if you want to give W&L props for the influence that they might have had, but please keep it in perspective relative to facts.

However, if you want to talk opinion, W&L solo suck to me. Their shining musical moment (beyond TV/film scores) was with Prince. What I have heard from them post-Prince does not hold a candle to Prince's overall pre- or post-Revolution output. I would take Prince's last three albums over their coffee shop Pop/Rock any day.

abigail05 said:

There! We've settled it! On to world peace!

Ah NO!

It would be cool if there was a huge Prince revival among white people.

What I mean is... like, suppose Rick Rubin produced Prince and he put out a super hip Indie album that really appealed to white kids.

I don't mean a white album like Chaos and Disorder. (You don't just throw distorted guitars at a song and suddenly it's white and hip.)

I mean, cultivate that shit.

I don't know exactly how that could be done, because if I knew I'd be a millionaire.

But, here's an example on the path I'm thinking of...

I always thought putting The Time in "Jay and Silent Bob Strikes Back" completely brilliant. It kind of made them super-cool for a minute. I said back then that the Time should JUMP on that opportunity and immediately play at white-centered things, such as Lollapalooza, or big white frat festivals at colleges.

Morris wouldn't have to change himself at all. But he would have been the pimp of all pimps.

Kind of like how Snoop Dogg is popular among all the white hippies. Does anyone know what I am saying here?

Or how Bob Saget, after being a nicey-nicey dad on Full House, started a comedy career of being completely vulgar. The fact that he went from one extreme to the other made him brilliant!

By marketing himself in this fashion, Prince could bring a certain hip-ness to his career.

Other examples are Rick Astley. Because of that whole "rick rolled" thing, he is now huge again. And now he's touring again and people are flipping out!

Or how the movie "American Psycho" made Phil Collins cool again... After that watching that movie, you just kind of "get it".

I'm not saying Prince isn't hip. He's the hippest cat out there. But he could really set himself up to EXPLODE if he wanted to.

I'm begining to agree with the fams,..in their constant what am i doing here? jabs

I'm a prince fan, but not of his current stuff too much and know he will never change at this point in his life. I cant see him ever using a producer. and i think he sorely needs one too.

I'll just lurk here, and say nothing like a good boy and read past the fawning, and go just to concert dates info, release info. and the few and far between music dicussions.
fams, you win.
[Edited 2/1/09 10:53am]

Hey, guys,

He DID let others produce his music (sort of) in the past: I mean, he did credit Kirky J. for the (plastic) production on Emancipation and some other material on other albums, and in the mid-nineties he did let Ricky Peterson 'over-produce' some of his material.

But i know what you mean: a 'real' (wellknown) producer that isnt just simply following 'his orders'.

IMO that will probably never happen, he is too much of a control freak for that.

But just for 'make believe' i would like to call some names that could turn out interesting:

Marius de Vries (Madonna, Bjork, Neil Finn, Teddy Thompson, the Moulin Rouge soundtrack): one of the best contemporary producers when it comes to 'colouring up' arrangements, adding all kind of interesting textures, without moving into over-production.
He could help Prince to make some album that mixes 'The truth'-type of acoustic material, with some weirder, edgy electronic (Bjork-like) elements.

Brendan 'O Brien (Pearl Jam, Matthew Sweet, AC/DC, Audioslave): very good at keeping things tight, concise, catchy and direct soundwise.
A good producer for an 'in your face' album like Purple Rain or The Gold Experience.

Hall Willner (Marianne Faithfull, Gavin Friday): a master when it comes to mixing 'old' aucoustic, 'continental' styles (Vaudeville, chansons, chambermusic) with contemporary elements.
He and Prince could create something that extrapolates the more melancholic, 'European' sounding songs from Parade.

Riverpoet31 said:

I like the sound of that. Add Jon Brion to that category, too. His work on Fiona Apple's "When the Pawn..." is still among my faves.

Sooner or later, he'll have come back to produce Prince.

I agree he should let someone else produce.....it will never happen.

The only problem is, the results would probably be even more to our distaste.

NouveauDance said:

impossible.

seriously

...before we kill em.