I know, 'we' have only heard 2 tracks so far that 'could be' on the proposed new album MPLsound, but the thought i did get when listening to these 2 songs immediately was: is Prince using samples of old drumpatterns as the backbone of these songs?

I mean: 'Anybody like me' uses a more muted version of the drum-loop from Mountains, while 'Chocolate Box' uses a 'cut off' version of the linn-drum loop of When Doves cry.

Can we expect the entire album to be like this? Prince using the programmed beats from older (familiar) songs to create new compositions with? What do you think?

My personal opinion: I really don't hope so. The two tracks i heard so far sound rather clumsily and forced, plastic even, musicwise.
Nothing wrong with using old parts of songs and creating new material with it. At least, when it is done in a good, creative way, like the Beatles and George Martin did on the 'love' CD.
But on these 2 'new' songs from Prince its just sounds very shallow and amateurish.

Jumping the gun a bit?

Graycap23 said:

I would think so. We've only heard 1 1/2 songs so far. We have to be patient with this and not rush this off. I did that with The Gold Experience and now it's one of my absolute favorites.

What do you mean, graycap?

If it is, it seems 2 be working so far because I am way more pumped about MPLSOUND than Lotusflow3r after hearing the 2 wonderful tracks!


Let the pen flow, Prince... we're eating your new music up right now!!!

why are people still doubting which track goes where?

first version of the new site

crimson and clover: lotus flow3r
there will never be another like me: mplsound
here i come: elixir


second version of the new site

chocolate box: mplsound
a colonized mind: lotus flow3r
all this love: elixir

having said that, i thought the same thing, riverpoet. about the album being
composed of beats from older songs but than what we've heard in those tracks
that have been on the site (1,5 song basically) also contains many elements
that i haven't heard or don't recognise from other prince songs.

but perhaps the basic tracks were made with pro-tools by taking samples from
other songs and re-arranging them so as to make something new.

remember that he played lots of samples at the O2 shows, a whole medley that
was built on samples. maybe that's where he got the idea?

either that or he lost his linn drum machine and he's had to cut bytes out of
his old songs and use them as basics for a new string of "thumps" lol.

as far as that being good or bad, i don't know. i like what i've heard so far.
especially when you consider the fact that Lotus Flow3r is a full fledged rock
n roll prince album. what's wrong with a beats heavy album to go along with
that as a sort of disjointed companion piece?

this whole idea of two seperate albums, each with their distinct style really
appeals to me tremendously. for about 10 years now i've been hoping he would
do a double cd. not like sign o the times which became a double cd because it
was recorded as a 4 LP or something. i've always been hoping for something at
least designed as two cd's.

this seems to be that, and then some. in a way this whole era is reminding me
of "Come/The Gold Experience", both with their distinct sounds but recorded
at the same time and [meant to be] released simultaniously.

IstenSzek said:

Well said

Oops... i see

(sorry, english isnt my first language).

To resume:
So far i am definitely not impressed of what i heard from 'MPLsound', but youre right, we only heard 1,5 track....

When it comes to the tracks from Lotusflower, i am mildly positive, JUST mildly positive that is...lol
To me these songs sound like a continuation of the 'Planet Earth sound': not bad, but too polished and generic for its own good.

I know, i am a very critical little bugger when it comes to Princes music, but... hey.. at least i am still following what will come next...

All I can say is that there is a HUGE difference between using an actual LinnDrum (or LM-1), and using LinnDrum samples.

I've tried both, and now when I want Linn sounds, I go right 2 the LinnDrum.

Giovanni777 said:

which would you say is being used on these songs?

i kind of like the idea that prince would sample
his own old material to create an entire album's
worth of new tracks.

that kind of uppercuts any "he's copying himself"
comments because he copies himself and then takes
the whole joint two steps further.

even if i hadn't heard a single second of any one
of the tracks, that would still sound like one of
the things prince could and would pull off.

I might be thinking too deep here, but IMO the name MPLsound somehow fits in with my idea that this new album will contain songs that are based on (samples of) older rhythem tracks and maybe synthsounds.

Prince has often shown apprecation in his music and lyrics for his 'beloved' hometown (Uptown, Jughead, Rock and Roll is alive) and when you read Wikipedia and other internet 'articles' about The Minneapolis sound they talk about the elements you can hear in these new songs: drummachines, synths replacing the horn parts, a mixture of funk, pop and rock...

Giovanni777 said:

Do you have an original LM-1 ? I´ve heard that they are very rare these days.I´m not even really sure whether Prince still has his LM-1.

Riverpoet31 said:

it never hurt anyone to be critical. why wouldn't you be. being critical is
a good thing imo.



but i don't really see how you and a lot of other people think that the songs
we've heard from the "lotus flower" album sound like a continuation of the
songs on "Planet Earth". i totally don't hear that. you say you feel that the
tracks sound too polished (and perhaps overproduced)?

but there's a difference between the sound of "planet earth" and the sound we
are hearing right now on the "lotus flower" tracks.

let me put it like this, there's overproduction and then there's prince glam.

planet earth is over production, in most places. so is a lot of musicology or
emancipation.

lotus flower, imo, is pure prince glam. just like large portions of the "come"
album, "the gold experience" and even stuff as early as the "purple rain" LP.

when he puts on the prince glam, to me, the difference between that and when
he overproduced something is the clarity of the finished product.

he's thrown everything AND the kitchen sink at "Christopher Tracy's Parade"
but you can still see and hear right through it like a clear glass of water.
there's lots of glitters and bubbles, but you can still see the face on the
other side of the table.

songs like his updated version of "the most beautiful girl in the world" and
impo "the one u wanna c" or "the marrying kind" etc are soo full of ideas or
so glossed over with varnish that the whole thing becomes like thick syrup.
you can see all the elements in the glass but everything's stuck in the thick
jelly let alone being able to see through it.

g*ddamn that was a long analogy, even for me



i'm sorry.

anyway, what i meant to say is that everything i've heard from "lotus flower"
this far reminds me of the components that are to be found in his best work
spreading his entire carreer from Purple Rain to Gold to The Rainbow Children.

they sound purposefull and part of a whole, eventho we haven't even heard the
rest of that "whole" yet.

the tracks on his last 3 albums for example all sound good but only a few of
them sound like they belong somewhere other than a mix tape.

KoolEaze said:

wasn't there a report of a party last year that prince threw because they
had found the original lM-1 again in some storage room?

perhaps i'm dreaming but i think i read that on some party report. perhaps
it was only a small detail of one of the party reports. but i'm sure i read
that somewhere.

Riverpoet31 said:

.
.
I hear you loud and clear Riverpoet.
The idea of recycling old beats is interesting in priniple,
the execution though, based on what we've heard is like you say "clumsy, forced and plastic".
Try as i might i cant find no heart in these MPLSound tracks. It sounds like a head job to me. Not suprising considering what he told that reporter:
about moving to LA to be near the Gatekeepers of the music industry (like they dont have top 40 radio in Minnie);
and how people ask him why he doesnt sound like he used to. Sheeeeeit.

Jakeasaurus said:

i want mplsound more than lotus


and isn't it funny that people will talk about his beats as being something we've heard b4, uninspired etc..yet no one talks about how he used the same pedal effect at the end of colonized mind during his per4mance of fury on snl ..damn prince u USED THE SAME EFFECT PEDAL STOP THAT SHIT!!

KoolEaze said:

I have the LinnDrum... sometimes called the LM-2. Slight differences, but mostly the same. I bet P still has his LM-1(s)... I'm just not 2 sure he used them here.

I tend to agree that Prince has actually sampled himself.

He has seen rappers stealing riffs, melodies etc and realised that as much as we may hate most of them there are a few that will get our toes tapping. Certainly there are some that I like but I don't know why and on repeat listens I realise they have sampled an old disco beat to a song I loved during my teen years. I just think Prince is doing the same and if you listen to the 2 new tracks previewed you can hear elements of that. When I originally found the MPLSOUND website I thought it was a fan who had sampled him - now I know different. I could be wrong, but just giving my own opinion.

Is it a bad thing - maybe, but at least he is experimenting again which can only be good. Either way I'll buy the albumn and then after 10 or so plays will decide - like most Prince albums they get better with each listen.
[Edited 1/16/09 11:23am]

IsthenSzek,

Our different reactions show in the first place how subjective the experience of music is, i think... lol

But, with 'polished' i certainly not mean overproduction (albums like Lovesexy and The symbol album move into that territory IMO), but: music created from a calculated point of view, purposely trying to aim for a certain kind of sound and style, instead of letting pure creative urgency and inspiration do 'the work'.

Both the tracks from MPLSsound and Lotusflower we heard so far, remind me of that kind of 'polish'. And IMO when Prince creates music from that kind of state of mind, he isnt at his best (New Power Soul, Musicology..)

The funny thing is, you accentuate the difference yourself with the following words:

he's thrown everything AND the kitchen sink at "Christopher Tracy's Parade"
but you can still see and hear right through it like a clear glass of water.
there's lots of glitters and bubbles, but you can still see the face on the
other side of the table.

songs like his updated version of "the most beautiful girl in the world" and
impo "the one u wanna c" or "the marrying kind" etc are soo full of ideas or
so glossed over with varnish that the whole thing becomes like thick syrup.
you can see all the elements in the glass but everything's stuck in the thick
jelly let alone being able to see through it.

IMO Prince is at his best when he just lets the creativity 'flow' and doesnt care too much about how it will be perceived among either his fans, the music critics or the mainstream crowd.
The album Parade is a wonderfull example of that mindstate, IMO. But so far the new material does seem to miss that kind of 'urgency'

The songs from MPLsound sound like a calculated attempt to 'say' hey, I was the man with those linn-drums, the one which inheritage you overlook, and I am still a cool cat, walking into my open closet, scoring with the ladies... It just doesnt sound genuine in my ears.

And when it comes to the songs I heard from Lotusflower, i notice they show the same kind of selfgranted feeling of most of the songs on Planet Earth. Its like Prince is 'saying': Hey people, i know i can play guitar, i know i can be more subdued in my music and lyrics, more selfcontrolled, so why should i show you the back of my tongue? The result, decent adult orientated rock, but at the same time inoffensive and boring as hell....

KoolEaze said:

U can still get the LM-1 for about a $1000 - $1500 bucks.

.
[Edited 3/21/10 2:16am]

.
Bravo
Riverpoet
Bravo
.

Riverpoet31 said:

I just don't understand how U can say 'Planet Earth' was "too polished"...

He sounds free 2 me... using singing voices he hadn't used in YEARS.

Voices that he probably thought the fans would really appreciate. "All the Midnights in the World" is a clear example of this.

Does "Planet Earth", "Lion of Judah", "All the Midnights in the World", "The One U Wanna C", and "Chelsea Rodgers" sound "polished" 2 U?

I'll say it again, and add something:

Most of the folks here who don't like 'Planet Earth' probably would have, if it were longer, and maybe had one song substitution...

Imagine this:

Take "Mr Goodnight" off, then add "Wall of Berlin", "Colonized Mind", and one unheard Funk song... maybe add "Crimson & Clover"...

Well?

Anyway... 'Planet Earth' was recorded and mixed beautifully, and he added some serious dynamics on this album. The title cut has some powerful dynamics... not 2 mention one of the greatest guitar solos he ever laid down, along with screams that strangely parallel the screams on "Something in the Water (Does Not Compute)"...

Riverpoet31 said:

Please give it a rest....What's wrong if Prince did sample his own drum patterns 4rm previous songs. There his aren't they? There still brand new hot sounding songs. I am so sick of this Prince did this b4 attitude.As Brenda Bennett used 2 say back in the day "PUT IT IN THE BANK"

Artist create.....this whole notion about polished and raw and all of this is well.....nonsense.

"There Will Never B Another Like Me" is probably one of the worst songs I've ever heard from him. The thought of this song being released makes me sick. He sounds like a fool on that track. The music sounds like it was programmed on a dated casio keyboard.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

We really don't know if he sampled patterns from the past, or created new ones. I will say this... I do care.

If he's gonna use Linn sounds on a new track, then damn straight he should create the patterns either on the Linn, or using the samples with trigger pads. 2 have a Linn innovator and pioneer sample previous patterns would be EXACTLY the same as Stevie sampling his clav line from "Higher Ground" 4 a new song. Sampling other stuff from his past is fine... screams, other short vocalisms, etc.

SOOOO...

I'm betting he DIDN'T sample pattern phrases from his past, but created something strongly reminiscent.

I can probably find out, anyway, but I'd rather just get the whole albums, and play them 13 times each, and then see what I feel about what I'm hearing.

In fact... I've stopped listening 2 any of the new songs until I get the albums.

PEACE.

~G
[Edited 1/16/09 13:47pm]

I doubt they are samples but they are most likely intentional nods to the past.

Here's what he said about this project in the LA Times interview:

Which leads back to "MPLSound," the album Prince recorded by himself at Paisley Park studios mostly last year. "People ask me, 'Why don't you sound like you used to?' " he said by way of introduction. "But that music doesn't have any wave energy to it. It'll move a party, but that's not what I'm doing here."

These tracks did sound new in some ways: electronica-based, futuristic and subtly mind-altering. They also harked back to early Prince, including touchstones like "When Doves Cry" and "The Black Album."

Now we know the interviewer was referring to "Chocolate Box" with the "When Doves Cry" mention.

These beats are not samples... their just the same style patterns that can be found all over 80's prince tracks. I don't think you people realize how much Prince repeated the same patterns with variation in tone, arrangement, and emphasis all over his 80's tracks. Do you all realize how close to Housequake the beat of Anotherloverholeinyohead is? Continued even more so in the beat pattern of Jughead? Prince has always repeated musical ideas back then... and he has always been characterized as using casio sounding bare bones sounds (read any review of Erotic City as a song from back in the day).

Well said!

Giovanni777 said: