Please, please, please BOOTLEGGERS shut up and stop goin' on about stuff u have.
It is really boring and quite offensive. If u r a prince fan and u have any sense of fair play and respect u won't go on about bootlegs. (there is no point in asking that u not buy them cuz u wont) but please shut about the songs /gigs... stop quoting lyrics from them and stop listing them in your top 10 songs etc.

What u r doing is stealing. There is no 2 ways about it. Some idiot in Holland was explaining that it is not illegal to own them, well it is. Check international copyright law.

Persian said:

Stop sucking up so much... Neither Prince or the NPGMC will recruit you...

Neversin.

Neversin... me sucking up?
U obviously haven't read any of my posts...

Persian said:

You seem to have some confusion with the law.
1. There is no such thing as 'International Copyright Law', although most national laws on copyright conveniently converge, and there are Conventions which form the basis for many country's laws on this subject.
2. In many countries it isn't an offence to own a bootleg recording, and it certainly isn't an offence to own a bootleg recording under copyright law in many countries.
3. In many countries it is an offence to copy material which belongs to someone else without permission. Oning a bootleg does not constitute that offence.
4. I understand what you mean when you say that owning a bootleg is tantamount to stealing, because a person is effectively handling a copy of property which has been made without permission of the owner. However, once again, legally, owning a bootleg under the law of many countries is not a crime of theft.

I think what you are talking about is something which technically may remain within the law of a country, but which to you is one step away from a criminal act and is morally reprehensible. I suggest that most people who own bootlegs recognise that - they just have a differnt moral outlook to you.

And unless I'm much mistaken, your request certainly isn't going to stop people discussing bootlegged material. It appears to be within the terms and conditions which permit such debates on this site.
[This message was edited Wed Nov 27 12:03:32 PST 2002 by langebleu]

Persian said:

I've read some of 'em... But this post alone could make a leech jealous...

Neversin.
[This message was edited Wed Nov 27 12:00:13 PST 2002 by Neversin]

At the ONA show In Columbus Ohio Prince said in the soundcheck that he doesn't care if we trade, 2 get a group of friends and share with each other. Now if he doesn't care if we share why should u? And if u don't like it don't read the post about bootlegs.

Persian said:

Think of all the live CDs that are bootlegs. Even Prince would have never released all these (assuming every show was recorded from soundboard). The circulation of them, including the cost of production and distribution, is the work of his fans. It didn't cost Prince a penny, and he didn't loose a penny either because they were never going to be release anyway. All he got from it was free promotion.

Man Persian you are trippin.. I enjoy hearng about unreleased songs and performances. Nobody is acting like they have someting over anyones head because most songs talked about are widely available and traded. Besides, "bootleggers" do not post about their product, traders do.

E.G
Prince records a song in his studio. Some dubious employee of said studio (if its not paisley park) copies material and then sells it to a person / company who then duplicates it and sells it. This is theft. U R entering into an 'agreement' when u purchase and item. Irrespective of whether u know the item is legitimate or not u r purchasing stolen goods.
This is illegal.
E.G: copyright law:
If Prince comes to your town and u (or someone else) buys tickets and manage to sneak a recording device in2 the concert, tape the concert then sells bootlegs of the concert this is in violation of copyright law.
If u think it isnt then u don't know the law.
Entering in2 any financial transaction involving these is illegal.
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

I know I am usually one of Prince's biggest critics but as an 'artist' myself stealing is stealing... no 2 ways about it.

p.s show me one country where purchasing stolen goods is not illegal?

Persian said:

Well thank god for thievery then, because Neon Rendezvous, Fantasia etc. are the shit!

Persian said:

Lots of people "trade" as well..and dont trip..I see your ass eating olives out of the salad bar that you didn't order with your meal...and all those pencils in your office from your work.

OK...WHAT ABOUT THIS:

Someone sneaks into a show and records it...uploads it to Kazaa or some other P2P network and then i download it 4 free for my own listening pleasure???

I'd much rather do this than pay someone $$$ for a show...this way - no financial transaction has taken place - does this still invoke copyright infringement???

PS. By doing this alone (Me downloading the Nighttown Aftershow) i am signing to the NPGMC next year again!!! This show has lit the fire for me once more - see how 'bootlegs' can help Prince...not hurt him!!!

Persian said:

Sodomy is illegal in some states too. Does that mean if you live in one of those states and get a blowjob you're on par with the crazy murderer sitting in jail cuz u both broke the law?

Persian said:

Are you one of those people who interperets the bible literally too?

With your letter of the law philosophy I hope to god you have never took anything that didnt belong to you at any point in your life because that would make you one of us.

Egads.

And if you've never heard Small Club, or Moonbeam Levels, or In All My Dreams, you dont know what youre missing...

Okay, so we're supossed to not do something because Prince says so? Because that's what I got out of your post. But I really don't have an opinion on the "bootlegging thing" I don't know if it's ilegal or not and I don't own any.

Tom said:

---

What the hell does Sodomy have to do with a discussion on bootlegging. It is wrong to steal if I break in your house a rip off your stuff and sell it at local pawn shop or just give it away you are going to be pissed.

chickengrease29 said:

He said this at the soundcheck? That's too cool.

laurarichardson said:

States dont enforce sodomy laws because its not that big of a deal.

Bootlegged CDs arent that big of a deal either as some people are making them out to be.

Even tho both may be technically illegal

Me breaking into Prince's house and stealing his couch, lamps, stereo, and money is not the same as me sharing some bootlegged songs with other fans.

Im a photographer. If someone stole my car I would prosecute them. But if someone printed one of my photos in a publication without my permission, technically I could be an ass and sue them. But I wouldnt.[This message was edited Wed Nov 27 17:26:55 PST 2002 by Tom]
[This message was edited Wed Nov 27 17:29:39 PST 2002 by Tom]
[This message was edited Wed Nov 27 17:30:40 PST 2002 by Tom]

Tom said:

Tom,

This is personal preference. You are nice person if someone stole your pictures and tried to make money off of them and you let them. But as a photographer you are artist and I think artist are going to have different feelings about their work. Prince once said that songs were like his children. I think that is extreme but, that is how he feels about it and you got to respect that.

Persian said:

Shut up right there, 'cause that's not how the songs get out. This has been discussed in several threads over and over again over the past months.

joeycoco said:

Yes, man Persian. The tapes are "moved" or didn't you know

Pointless Thread, Creator of Thread knows nothing about bootlegs in General, Nor Prince Boots...


If u arent bootlegging, what are u worryin about other people? Mind ure own and find something to do.

Besides, u sound like a grumpy fan who has tried numerous times to get ahold of boots and failed, now tryin 2 lash at another fan.

Persian said:

No .. you are purchasing a copy of stolen goods in this example. Purchasing a copy of stolen goods is illegal? It may be. I'd be interested to know which law you believe it violates. No one has disputed that the stealing of goods is illegal or handling the goods themselves is illegal, as far as I can read. But when it comes to the making and handling of copies of those goods, we turn to ...Not a good example: but, as you know 'copyright' law so well, please show the legal examples of where this is breach of copyright.
Let's take copyright law that prevails in the United States, where Prince happens to live, and where many of his concerts have been recorded:

If a bootleg concert recording was made without Prince's consent, the creator's rights (copyright) do not arise under the Copyright Act under US law (hint: it's § 106 you should be looking up in your legal library). Instead, rather than breach of copyright law (which you are claiming) the recording would be a § 1101 violation which prohibits the unauthorized fixation or distribution of "the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance." Violators of this section are not copyright infringers, because the live musical performances they exploit are technically unfixed and thus not copyrightable.
The statute even goes as far as to recognize that bootleg recordings are not a copyright infringement by providing like remedies as if there had been breach of copyright where it provides that violators of §1101 shall be subject to the remedies of the Copyright Act "to the same extent as an infringer of copyright."As you are based in England, please now turn to your copy of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (c48) of which I can see you have intimate working knowledge. Section 16 onwards is a good starting place. You will note that a person who owns a bootleg for their own private use, and who has not imported the item, (irrespective of whether they have paid for the item or not), does not infringe copyright.
.
[This message was edited Thu Nov 28 1:48:35 PST 2002 by langebleu]

I don't think we are hurting Prince when we trade bootlegs.
I would never burn one of his released cds for someone,because that would be unfair to him.
But it is like someone else said, Prince would never release these anyway so how is it hurting Prince?

Even though this is irrelevent, We have all given Prince a lot of our money and the man will never spend it all,so how does trading bootlegs matter?

Anyone that doesn't have any of the live bootlegs doesn't know what they're missing.

.
[This message was edited Tue Dec 16 3:08:17 PST 2003 by hectim]

Keep those wheelchairs a rollin'

(testing.. testing.. .is this thing on?)

hectim said:

http://groups.google.com/...com&rnum=1

Sdldawn said:

Sorry but uh-uh u r wrong there. I have never tried to get bootlegs and I know many a place that sells them but I am not interested.
And there is no one specific fan I am trying to lash out at either.
Also I know nothing about about car stealing, pickpocketing and .....
(just an a thought for anyone: i never thought about the law before but almost all of it is either injury / property based... i dont know what that means but its interesting)

I just think that people: quoting / listing stuff that has not been made available by the artist is a pain and annoying. I don't think it represents 'being a fan in a good spirit'.
Obviously some people are sorely vexed by my criticising bootleggers and they are trying to justify themselves.
If they honestly don't think it wrong to bootleg and make money from something that they should not be then there is nothing I can say.
[This message was edited Thu Nov 28 4:04:42 PST 2002 by Persian]