I used to say that Prince's last good record was Lovesexy but I think that Batman had some great tracks on it as well and it was a pretty solid record. Prince really shit the bed after Batman with very lifeless and unfinished sounding music. His guitars and overall production sounds ultra cheap and super flat. The decline really started after Sign O The Times. That was the last SUPER GREAT Prince record. Of course, half of it if not more was backed by The Revolution. That's why it was so incredible. They totally didn't get the credit they deserved on that record. It was the first record that was a supposed "departure" from The Revolution but in reality it was a Prince & The Revolution record thru and thru. I look at Prince music after Lovesexy and Batman and it's almost as if he was touched by a power greater than any of us will ever know and all of the sudden it was gone. The music of his early to mid-90's career had classic and timeless sound that produced hit after hit. I hear people intellectualizing what a "hit" is on this board as if the people who don't like his new music aren't informed. A "hit" doesn't have to be at the top of the charts. "Anastesia", "The Ballad of Dorothy Parker", "It", "Girls and Boys", "Tambourine" were never chart toppers but they were all "hits" to people who know a thing or two about music and can appreciate a good song when they hear one. I stood behind Prince through the 80's and the early 90's because his music made me feel so good. It's depressing and sad when you try again and again to gleam some small particle of that feeling in his new music and fail over and over. He doesn't know how to write hit music anymore. He is a victim of his ego and self centeredness.

mschirmer said:

You hit the nail on the head there. Everything you stated above is all about how it made you feel at the time. I'm not saying that it is wrong or right, it's just how you feel.

I love 90% of his output for different reasons. Some of them are for melody, some are for arrangement, etc. If you look at his 90s output, you must remember that almost all music in the early 90s was plastic sounding. The engineering was different and people were getting adjusted to all of these new digital instruments. P followed suit by trying to update his sound with these new instruments. In 95, he changed it up and tried reinventing his sound.

With that said, I don't see how anyone can say albums like TGE, Rave IN2, 3121, etc. are "lacking" or "missing the point". These albums are very cohesive. Each one of Prince's albums are like books. They look and sound different. That's not saying that the material is not good. It's all a matter of opinion. That's all. If a song like "(There'll Never B) Another Like Me" was released in 1987, it would be considered a P classic by now.

As for Prince trying to recapture his hitmaking days, I think he knows that he doesn't have a chance. I don't think it's due to the material. I think it has to do with the industry. The music business doesn't allow 50 year olds to have "hits" on the pop chart. Come on, when was the last time Barbara Streisand, Bruce Springsteen, Billy Joel, Natalie Cole, etc. had a "hit" on the charts. These people have continuously released new material throughout the years, but hasn't had a pop hit in damn-near 20 years. Sure, they have all released projects. Many of them have sold in the millions, yet not managed to have any big success with any singles.
[Edited 12/31/08 12:18pm]

Music is no longer his religion. He's moved on, as well he should.

I look at P's music like an old friend. One you don't kick it with all the time like you used to, but when you see them it's cool to get together and just reminisce if nothing else.

jdcxc said:

Well I certainly wasn't defining what "deep" is supposed 2 encompass...

I hear what you're saying, and agree with U on that, but not on U saying that Prince hasn't written anything "creative"/"deep"/"challenging"/"introspective"/"interpersonal" in recent times. He certainly has. Same with Stevie. He still writes "meaningful" lyrics... "A Time 2 Love" is on the same album as "What The Fuss?" GREAT and CLASSIC Stevie lyrics there.

(although I've bashed the lyrics in "What The Fuss?", I must say that it doesn't affect me grooving 2 that cut. I just feel kind of funny when I sing it.)

purplecam said:

I agree

mschirmer said:

WHAT??

Giovanni777 said:

A double WHAT??? I better not say anymore than that.

mschirmer said:

Oh larwd.....here we go again.

JayJai said:

I agree 2.

4 example, I really don't like 'The Gold Experience' album, and it is revered by most folks on the org as one of his best. In fact, I never break out that album nor 'Diamonds & Pearls'.
[Edited 12/31/08 12:46pm]

purplecam said:

OK. I will...

The Revolution were incredibly over-credited on Prince projects, where he really wrote and played nearly everything.

How much of The Revolution do U really think is on the 'Around The World in a Day' and 'Parade' albums?

Giovanni777 said:

Amen

Giovanni777 said:

Thank you, Thank you and Thank you again! You said it so much better than I would have.

purplecam said:

Thanks, but your contributions 2 the Org R quite appreciated!

...and I was just tellin' the Truth.

Giovanni777 said:

Awwww Thank you Giovanni! Hell. I'll go for it! I also think that W&L are overrated. Prince didn't need them to make the music that he made before 1984 and he didn't need them after 84 either. I liked and still like W&L and I am grateful for their presence and what they brought to Prince's table from 1983-1986 but they weren't the "end all be all" that many think that they are. Prince made hits in 1981, 1996, 2004 and he will make hits in 2009 cause that's what he does. Disagree if you want, but that my viewpoint on the matter and my contribution to this thread.

Giovanni777 said:

I will always buy the next Prince record and I can always find certain tracks that are cool. What I miss is the strange, wierd, complicated and alternative worldview he used to express. He was never above exploring his frailities, contradictions and personal disappointments and euphoric highs. It's as if he is medicated on some bland drug that has dimmed his adventurous music side.

I think the fight with the record industry and his alliance with an outsider cult religion has fueled his natural contrarian bent while at the same time sapped his use of music as an outlet for his personal growth. Just my theory.

jdcxc said:

I, personally, believe that when he started seeking out religion, got married to Mayte, left WB, etc. his views changed. It's like he grew up and became a different person. Not saying that's bad, but I think a lot of it has to do with his maturity level. When you are young, you tend to have a different view than an older person.

jdcxc said:

Very interesting, and well written, although I disagree only because of works like 'The Rainbow Children', 'One Night Alone', etc.

daPrettyman said:

I agree Correct me if I'm wrong but it seemed like Prince was looking at Eastern Religions or something like that when he got married to Mayte. He had some Henna, I believe that's what it's called, on his hands quite a bit at the time. It could have just been decorations but I believe that Henna is attached to a religion so that leads me to believe that Prince was searching for something at that time.

*Again correct me if I'm all off base with this and I apologize if this is offensive as it's not meant to be.

purplecam said:

I remember the Henna tattoos, but not sure about the religion part. I think He and Mayte were married in a Methodist church.

daPrettyman said:

I remember that too.

SynthiaRose said:

Your post is SO on point ! I like the anger in it and the fact that you dislike exactly the same things that I dislike about 21 Nights or his other current output ( and lyrics ) .
What really made me like Prince in the first place were songs I could relate to, deeply personal lyrics that were still easy to relate to, bad ass experimental stuff like When Doves Cry or If I Was Your Girlfriend or Beautiful Ones. These days, it seems that he´d rather be overcryptic or "deep" without really knowing too much about the things he sings about( if he did, he´d know that the Jews did NOT choose their "beautiful sounding" names but were given those names in order to discriminate them but I don´t want to talk about TRC here). I used to admire the courage and boldness of Prince in his heyday,how he would inspire his younger listeners to stand up and dare to be different, to be openminded towards other races or sexual orientations.
Much like Hip Hop and its original ideas in the early days, Prince seems to have changed into the opposite of what he once used to stand for.


By the way, I really LOVE your blog. Always a nice read.

mschirmer said:

I agree with most of what you say in your post BUT I must admit, he was still making great music in the 90s , and still does so to this day, though not as much as he used to. He kind of lost me around Batman and Graffiti Bridge but Diamonds and Pearls had some really decent songs on it, maybe even timeless if it wasn´t for Tony M and his "contributions".
Up until TGE, he was still coming up with great material but the difference between the studio material and the live performances and live sound were, in my opinion, getting bigger and bigger. I have witnessed a lot of those Gold Experience shows live back in the mid 90s and I have to say that the songs on the actual album sounded a bit too flat and too slick compared to the live stuff, Days Of Wild being one example. ( Maybe that´s the reason it didn´t make it onto the album).
I still wonder what Emancipation could have been sounded like if he had kept the old NPG together for that album.Betcha By Golly Wow may not be everybody´s favorite but it sure sounds good with Michael B. and Sonny.
As much as I dislike a lot of his newer material, I must admit that there are still occasional signs of greatness on every album. I really like songs like Here On Earth, Reflection, Somewhere Here On Earth, Lion Of Judah ( not necessarily the lyrics and especially not the chorus but the music sounds so good, and I like the vocal delivery), and I also love a lot of the songs on Diamonds and Pearls ( Strollin, Insatiable,Thunder, Live 4 Love, Get Off etc.), or on the Symbol album( 7, God Created Woman etc.).
My main gripe is that his newer material is too cryptic,too immature, not really as intellectual as it used to be, the music is no longer experimental ( he used to be the king of drum computers, created weird sounds using weird tricks, now I wonder if he could even recreate those old Linn drum sounds again).
But, most of all, we could all relate to his songs and they made us feel good, and that is the definition of a "hit" to me, and that seems to be gone for good, judging by the new songs that I´ve heard.

A lot of this was probably posted already, but I'll throw my 2 cents in anyway.

1. Prince stopped surrounding himself with people who fed him interesting musical elements (melodies, rhythms, etc) that he could then manipulate (flip, reverse, speedup, etc.) & assemble to create something that sounded totally unique. I believe this started around the late 80s.

2. At the same time, rap & hip-hop was on the rise. This spooked him. Consequently, he ended up chasing trends for the next 15 years. Maybe if he still had creative people around this wouldn't have been an issue.

3. He's lazier. I remember an interview in the late 90s where Prince said he let Kirky J do the drum programming for Emancipation because he didn't like to do it. It wouldn't surprise me if this attitude carried over to other aspects of his creative process.

4. His messages have become more explicit & traditional and thus less intellectually stimulating. I almost want to lump this into point 3.

5. He's over 50 and doesn't have the "right" sound to sell to today's target demographic.

6. He's burned way too many bridges over the last 20 years (fans, band members, record execs).

prince need lisa and wendy around to call him on his shit! then he will have a hit song

Donjuandeblacko said:

Hell nawwww!!!

Giovanni777 said:

well now that u mentioned stevie ..i was always with the lyrics on part time lover where he says "turn the lights on etc .." how can stevie tell when the lights r on?

Graycap23 said:

add another 2 the list of the dillusional revolution fanatics ..

L4OATheOriginal said:

*slap* Don't Play!!!

L4OATheOriginal said:

Hmmm. I think Graycap & L4 don't fully appreciate how truly great all those earlier songs were. If those earlier songs like When Doves Cry were released today they would be just as big with today’s audiences and critics as they were then. Likewise if he released his 90’s- present music in the 80’s they would fall flat just like do now.
People keep going to concerts to listen to them over and over again because they are that good.
To lump his current work into the "masterpiece” category along with his incredible 80’s output is really doing those songs a great disservice.

It’ not about living in the past, its appreciating the best music regardless of when it was created.
I know you guys really do love his 90’s work, .. but that music is not, and will never be regarded as his best by anyone other than some fanatics on fan sites like this.

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

no one is denying how great the songs were , just denying that the revolution was the end and b all of his career