Right now i am listening to Chaos and Disorder, which is often seen as an obligational record, a collection of 'outtakes', not up to par with his 'real' albums, etc...

But recently its one of the Prince-albums i listen to the most:
Is it the live-sound? the spontanity in the delivery? is it the the truelly brilliant rhythem-section (all praise to Michael and Sonny!)? Is it those 'juicy', nicely arranged hornsection? All of these together probably.

Altough i could do without the last two songs (Dig u better dead: Prince on autofunk-pilot, and Had U, just a sketch) the material on this album is simply tthoroughly enjoyable.

Another 'obligational' album i listen quite a lot to recently is 'The Vault'. I love the bluesy vibe of the songs on that album, and again there are some delicous horn-arrangements to be found on that album, and Sonny and Michael are in top-form again.

When i think about it: a combination of the best songs from both albums would probably 'make' my favourite Prince-album from the second half of the nineties.

Anyone has the same kind of experiences with those more 'obscure albums' (like Come, Chaos and Disorder, The Vault, The Truth, ONA-piano and vocals, The Slaughterhouse and The Chocolate Invasion)?
[Edited 9/19/08 9:50am]

i enjoy all of the albums you listed. as hit or miss as it was, that whole phase is his most fascinating to me. he seemed completely unhinged musically and passionate about connecting with his audience and voicing what was on his mind. sometimes it was silly, sometimes it didn't work, but there was a lot going on in those albums and i still appreciate them.

Nice to read, Anxiety.

What strikes me about those two albums is that i clearly hear a desire to just 'play' music, and related to that, going for a kind of spontanous live sound together with inspired musicians who like to do the same.

IMO he was allready trying to get back that feel on the Diamonds and Pearls album, the first album with the NPG and on the Symbol album.
But both these albums also sound 'twofaced'. Its like he also thought: i need rappers on my album, because that kind of music is so popular nowadays.

Its like he couldnt really choose at that moment: on Diamonds and Pearls you hear he aims for a live-sound, but at the same time he simplifies his songwriting on certain songs and puts Tony M in the mix, obviously to make a commercial 'comeback' with the mainstream-audience.
On The symbol album, he uses some kind of concept for the lyrics, like he often did in the eighties, but thats not all, he wants to keep the rappers in the mix, he wants to dazzle with his hornsection, with his DJ, with his eclectic musical palette, it all becomes a bit TOO much.
On the Gold Experience he tries to strip it down much more: he has sacked the rappers, he tries to focus more on the songwriting, with the result that the album maybe sounds a bit too contrived for its own good (Dont get me wrong, it is one of his strongest albums from the nineties, but the original 'demo's for this album had a more spontaneous vibe, just like the material on Chaos and Disorder).

Coming back to the two albums i mentioned, Chaos and Disorder and The Vault, i think its safe to say in terms of songwriting those albums don't match up with lets say 1999, Purple Rain and Sign of the Times, but in terms of how they 'sound' and the 'playing-pleasure' that obviously shines through, i think they represent something Prince was trying to achieve during that period: simply getting back his pleasure in playing music, live or not, with a bunch of likeminded musicians.

The fact that those two other albums were released as 'obligational' records, and did not get a lot of promotion, tells another thing to me: Prince seems to be betting on different horses most of the time.
I mean, it seems like: he wants to do the music that he likes to play, but at the same time he wants to feel respected by the critics, and next to that: he wants the 'big public' to buy his albums.
I think you can hear that on albums like Diamonds and Pearls and Rave: he tries to 'please' everyone, including himself, but the end-result is often a bit 'schizophrenic'.
Its like on those 'obligational' records he is simply betting on 'one horse', and not letting himself carry away by his other ambitions.

A final observation i like to state: while in the eighties Prince seemed focussed on creating 'modern music' that was eclectic and innovate 'soundwise', during a large part of the nineties Prince seems to go for the opposite: back to his roots.
Alltough of course there were often rappers and weird soundeffects in the mix, especially on Chaos and Disorder and The Vault, and during his live-perfomances from that period, you can hear a desire to go back to roots-type of music: traditional R&B, raw rock, gospel, old-school soul.
And also in the late nineties you see that kind of tendency: going for the old school funk and hip-hop with childhood heroes like Larry Graham, Chaka Kahn and Doug E. Fresh.
[Edited 9/19/08 10:40am]

Riverpoet31 said:

Some of them are my favorites

Hey, they arent 'lesser' in my own perspective.

But i think that is how those albums are generally looked on.

I love the Vault, "5 women" and "There is Lonely" what is not to like about them?

i think 'the vault' is a great collection despite itself. i know there is a level of slapped-together "screw you" intent to the release, but i think it's quite cohesive with the jazzier song selections - it's almost a preview of the sounds he'd feature on 'the rainbow children'. i'm sure that wasn't the intent, but i don't think the songs were exactly chosen at random, either.

some of my favourite songs r on these albums
chaos & disorder & ona piano in my top 5

I never understood the notion that these albums shouldn't count or are lesser because they were to full fill a contract. Things like that are drummed up by fans who are typically just a tad to obsessive with Prince and his business. Every album Prince has made or any other artist makes while with a label is usually to fulfill a contract.If Prince's displeasure with the label had been kept under wraps... would peeps have looked at them so negatively...?

I like Chaos and Disorder a lot. The Vault... not so much. They fall in thier place some where between my faves Lovesexy and SOTT and my worst Rainbow Children and Grafittii Bridge.

lottielooloo1968 said:

i LOVE chaos & disorder, warts and all.

i think ona piano is a little on the sleep-inducing side, but i would not complain if he made more albums like it, because at least it sounds honest and sincere. i think the lyrics are very interesting on this album...

I love "Chaos and Disorder." I Think that "Dig U Better..." is a good song, it's just that the lyrics are upsetting because U realize that someone had threatened Prince's life, at least that is what I get from it, and I think the song is a great reply to that attitude.

I decided to follow suit and throw "Chaos and Disorder," on...I like the background voices in this song...especially the guy saying..."Hey, get out of the street." great song.

Come has always been one of my favorite albums. Very strong from from song 1-7, Solo is kind of lame, Letitgo is a bit cheezy, and song 10 speaks for itself.

Tame said:

i always thought it was about WB, and how he felt they would rather him take the "prince esta muerto" route instead of letting him have his way.

Riverpoet31 said:

I didn't know he had any obscure albums. Interesting assignation.
I've never been into Prince as a persona, a singles artist, an album artist, a sex symbol and all the rest.
I generally just listen to Prince randomly rather as albums. One of my Top Ten Favorite Prince songs ( I don't think I could go any lower.) has never been released. I've heard it a lot more than other songs that were released.
I'm not criticizing what you stated. I just have a different approach and viewpoint.
I don't think 'Had U' is a sketch at all. It is the complete song, as intended.
It's meant to be half-hearted, as in yeah, you know what I can do, but you don't treat me any better than this.
'When The Lights Go Down' is on The Vault. I can't believe Prince just had that sitting on the shelf. Should've been on Lovesexy.

BigDaddyHQ said:

One of my Top Ten.

I agree that every album an artist with a contract records is to fulfill their obligations under that contract. Doesn't stop great music.

Tame said:

I didn't see it as a threat on his life, but probably a spin off of what someone told him. That for the label, he'd be easier to deal with dead. They could keep putting out music at their pace. So he's saying to the label, You may dig me better dead but I'm still here so deal with that.

Tame said:

i always assumed that, since prince himself continually stated "prince is dead"
someone told him they liked the "prince" music more than the new music and
thus they liked him better dead.

Darwintheorgangrinder said:

Come is definitley 1 of my fav albums and its certainley one of his most experimental (IMO) I love it because its a very dark and moody album. My highlights of the album are - Space, Loose, Race, Dark and Letitgo. Also i do like Pheromone but it reminds me of an MJ song off Dangerous cant think which one

These two CDs, Chaos and Disorder and The Vault are two of the three PrinceLand "exploratory" CDs I've bought. And I like them both. The differences between the rock sound of C&D and the Blues vibe of TV are greatly exhibit Prince's range and capabilities. I love the way he can "change-up" and does it well. It's a kick.

chaos and disorder itself is a brilliant guitar track....i didn't really love or appreciate it until i heard the cover on shockadelica recently... it improves it simply by getting rid of all the dj nonsense and rocking out....i would love to see prince do it live

I love chaos and disorder, the vault, and come. These albums get quite a bit of playtime in my house. I never understood why some people view them as the lesser albums.

GiGi319 said:

i think there's a lot of raw growth on those albums. it's not polished and there are a lot of bumps and missteps, but that's what makes them so interesting to me.