ok... in regards to us propping Saddamm up .. whats wrong with that ... !!??

i dont get the arguments that peacewhackos make about that ...

When we did that ... clearly Iran wasnt our most favored nation ... and ... we were clearly worried ... about the Islamic-isms taking over that whole area ...

so whats wrong with aiding Saddamm ... its the lesser of 2 evils ... people do it all the time in the world ... i dont get ... why now ... people always wanna point that out ... so if someone is our ally/friend snd does wrong ... we should blame ourselves!!?? if someone is our friend ally ... its friends and ally thru thick and thin!!?? dont get it ...

JohnC said:

dont worry.

we are living in totally different universes.

bye

thats a real mature reply ... lol

i do feel that we are living in totally different universes sometimes ... lol

with regards to Iraq... i actually have some other interesting twists here ... i worked during the summer .. with a guy who worked on the USS Midway ... who was in the persian gulf before the Iran - Iraq war began ... he claimed that the US started that war ... think about it ... it actually makes alot of sense because we hated Iran ... wanted Iran to bleed for the hostage episode and all ... he claimed that unmarked planes were sent out with bombs over Iran and Iraq ... came back without bombs ...

of course ... i have no idea if it is true or some guy spouting off ... but how would that play into your theorys about powerful men ... playing monopoly ...

JohnC said:

point for you but what do you expect. my girlfriend was dragging me off my chair. And now, after and a Im kind off too exhausted talking about war.




wasnt me. Im not the theory guy but I loved playing monopoly in the days before hormons took over.

Anyway its kind off the wrong place to go indepth the American Foreign policy of the last 20 years but maybe we can kill some time discussing while waiting outside Paisly at Celebration03.

And we've been in the wrong forum the whole f... time anyway.

friendly
[This message was edited Mon Nov 18 11:18:26 PST 2002 by ajd]

Americans have not the slightest idea about what goes on outside their country, while the whole world can see right through the US.

US media tend to describe the world as America's garden, as if it could be organized and lovingly taken care of.

But the world is not a garden. And America is really a hothouse at night with the lights on. Americans can't see what's outside, they just see themselves mirrored in the glass. And all the wild animals are seeing them. Of course, warfare makes no sense here, because every target is really a reflection of America in the glass. Weapons do nothing but cause hostility of the world outside.

In this metaphor, you could see terrorism as bugs carrying deadly diseases, being frustrated by the light in the hothouse and attracted by it. Like bugs, terrorism is inside as well as outside. It's not bound by things like race, religion or country.

If you see it that way, the US might consider some strategies against terrorism, that are normally used against bugs.

The first is to turn off the light and close your doors. Here in Europe, that strategy is often proposed by nasty politicians to gain popularity. I love the US for not being like that!

The second is to build traps for the bugs, with lightbulbs, honey or candles. Kind of secret service thing, I guess...

And the third strategy is to go out of the hothouse. Because the hothouse is really the trap.

A nice side effect of going out would be that you'd see what's really out there, lighted by your own hothouse. You'd discover that the world is not a garden, not even a big one. It's endless. You'd find that different cultures are living on their own, being free and not waiting for a gardener or a landlord. The western kind of freedom is not the only way to be free and it's certainly not the most important thing in the world.

Looking at it this way, I think that attacking Iraq would make the US more vulnerable to terrorism, instead of less.
[This message was edited Mon Nov 18 13:02:10 PST 2002 by LillianLaughs]

This war and all global violence is a mirror of the violence within us between the creator and the creature. The only cure is to heal our own inner fears. When we fear we seek protection from " terrorist" or whatever scapegoat that is manufactored. Fear is an ill-lusion and we must simple realize that we are living in ill-usion (the head) and get back to reality (the heart).

yourself at all times! Even your warts.

http://www.terrydobbin.com

Ajd...gee...you reinforced my point.

You know, not only do I know about war. See, I'm voiced in freedom as well. I am mature enough to understand war is a necessary evil. Period.

Research history. War has been and will be. As long as two of the human race exist, conflict will persist.

Do you not remember school yard fights? Were not some due to the dumbest reason while others were a matter of honor? Did you fight somebody because you didn't like them or because they attempted to "take" you're girl/boy friend? Or did you fight because somebody stole something from you? Did you not turn the other cheek until you exploded?

How about the arguments with family or friends that left you not talking for minutes, hours, days, since?

See,AJD, war ids part of the life cycle.

Sure murder is murder no matter if its done in defense or offense. Is the gun fired during a bad drug deal any better than the one used to protect the land we call home?

Look, I feel comfortable looking at me niece and newphews, my mother and grandmother and knowing they're safe for another night at least. I worry about aunts and uncles, brothers and friends who are in the military. My baby brothers ARE overseas to protect the USA.

Look Ajd, (and so many others) I'm happy you were spoon fed ignorance. It doesn't wash with me. I do the research. I talk to people. I form my own ideas.

Finally, I believe in God. I WILL talk about God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ. See, this it is called Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech.

Oh yeah! Simply put. It's all about Freedom.

War = Freedom. Thats interesting!!! or

"I am viscerally opposed to a prolonged occupation of a Muslim country at the heart of the Muslim world by Western nations who proclaim the right to re-educate that country," said the former secetary of state, Henry A. Kissinger, who as a young man served as a district administrator in the military government of occupied Germany.

No war is ever begun because one side is "evil". There's always a history of provocation from one or both sides. And then one side makes it religious/cultural, and then it's war. Bush and Osama Pajama might as well be sleeping in the same bed, they're getting what they want. Bush more-so...

What site am I on??

Hey Mr. Bush, fuck U with Ur war

As a nine year U.S. Navy veteran I can see the concern but as long as there are people that walk this planet there will be wars. Most of the time I believe all these things stem from lack of empathy, understanding, and communication.Most conflicts could be resolved if people would just sit down and talk and really listen to each other. History shows that wars only benefit is that they stimulate the economic systems of those involved why I don't know but there has not been a war yet that has not had a positive impact on the econony following its conclusion. It will go up or down but the economy will change thats a given. It's all about money and people are the pawns to all of this.The media will fill your head with diregard of the choosen enemy. Many a culture has been wiped from the face of this earth due to proproganda. That has nothing to do with the truth. Rumours Kill faster then any troops. No one has asked the hard question why haven't they found Bin Laden yet? Maybe Mr.Bush knows he is looking for a ghost a myth.You will not win a war again an idea.