This topic was suggested by someone else on my "Prince's funk" thread, and i thought it was worth discussing because it's a topic that i've mentioned before on various threads.

I think Prince has run out of ideas musically. I think it happens to all the great artists eventually and it makes me really really sad. But it also explains why i can't even stomach to listen to anything since TRC and a few albums before that one.

I always use Stevie Wonder and Miles Davis as examples of prolific legendary artists who eventually ran out of ideas musically. I mean when was the last time Stevie Wonder made a "good" album. Hell, even a mediocre one? Miles was so far gone at the end of his career i don't even know if you could call what he was doing "jazz".

I mean pick a genre! Brian Wilson! I'd lump Tori Amos in this category as i think she's turned the corner. Sting. I mean some of the most creative people of their generations just seem to get to a point in their careers where it seems to be very difficult to come up with anything new and groundbreaking anymore.

Now i KNOW there's going to be a ton of ya'll that are going to come running in here with your kool-aid-kid (kak's for the rest of my posts therein) swords and shields all fired up and ready to defend your liege, but i'm totally serious about this topic. What do ya'll think honestly? (and not about me, about the topic)

No - the next album will prove you wrong!!!

Call7779311 said:

um, i've been hearing that for YEARS and the only time i've been pleasantly surprised was The Rainbow Children.

I agree with you in the fact that people do run out of ideas...Tori Amos, Ani Difranco, Madonna, all of their later albums are just boring and lack inovation. As far as Prince I havent been a fan long enough to really say anything but Ive heard some songs from his later albums and I do like them. I just think people arent gonna sound like they did 20 years ago, thats impossible. People change, beliefs change, surrounding change....maybe they just run out of juice, who knows. It could always be a lot worse, I mean being a michael jackson fan and all, you have to wait 7 or 8 years before he even puts out an album, so its a good thing Prince is able to put out albums regularly and not wait 8 years inbetween. You know what I mean?

I disagree....However...an artist strives to complete an idea's delivery in the best way that they can.

Although there are an endless amout of way's to say that "I Love You." An artist can look at his work and say, "I said it well in this song." Prince has had such success with delivering a message, he must say to himself if they didn't get it, they didn't listen.

I remember writing a poem about old age when I was younger. I felt that the poem as an isolated idea was so on the nose that I don't write about the winter years of life very often and if I do it will be when I am older, if I'm fortunate enough to live another 40 years or so.

A song being what it is and delivering what it says can help to empty the frustration an artist has to tell the story. To make that point from their perspective.

That is the beauty of art. It does solve a puzzling emotion in parts.

I still believe that I have a lot more to write, and I'm sure Prince does too, although I have said a lot...well enough to feel successful as a poet even though I am an unknown.

no...i don't think prince has ran out of ideas...now...if he is at standstill that is different...like we all have experienced sooner or later in life...my goodness the man is going through a divorce!!....sometimes you have to quietly rest and regain aswell as recharge yourself....prince you are my lastest and greatest inspiration...don't listen to the hearsay...blockers are everywhere...mzsexybaby

Did u bother 2 listen 2 Stevie's last cd?

Graycap23 said:

Right before i projectile vomited.

Honestly, no I don't think he's run out of ideas. I'm not going to try and figure out what's in Prince's head when he's in the studio but for me as a fan, I'm not looking for Prince to give me a "new sound" with each new release. I'm looking for Prince to give me a CD that I will not only enjoy but that I will love and want to listen to years after it was released. What I've heard from Prince in recent years is still enjoyable to me. Hell, 3121 has somehow found its way into my Top 10 favorite Prince CD's and didn't expect that at all.

If Prince comes out with something "innovative" again then that will be fantastic, but if it's music that is something simple to groove to and it hits my ear favorably, then that will be fantastic too. If it sucks, then I'll either pick songs I like and jam to them or I just won't play the CD again. As long as Prince is still making music for all of us to listen to and to discuss, then that makes me happier than a pig in the mud . I guess I just take a simple approach to Prince and his music. That's all.

a artist can sometimes speak about things going on in the world or what's around them. so the ideas can still flow through his music. let's face it tho, with all the artists in the world, they will tend 2 talk about something but because of the machinery of the industry where it might take 6 months 2 put out the record, what was writting and recorded months b4, may become irrelevant because of another artist putting out that subject matter or sound 1st.

george clinton wanted 2 put out the song oilspill after the exxon fiasco, but by the time the song would have come out, it was old news

ButterscotchPimp said:

U are funny in a non funny kind of way.

Given what u have written previously and your statement about Stevie Wonder I think its safe to say that u are very hard and demanding on your musicians lol. I have stevie's latest and although I don't play it regularly it certainly didn't make me want to vomit. It wasn't bad in any way. it just wasn't innovative like his music of his youth.

Why anybody would expect Prince, stevie or Miles to continue being infinitely innovative is beyond me. Surely the fact that they created so much goes to the notion that with each creation the innovation is going to decrease. Its really common sense. Hell my own ideas aren't as fresh as they were when I was 21 or 25.

At this point the "newness" of Prince can only be incremental to anyone that as followed his whole career. U seem to want Prince to open some new musical room in your brain each time out. Its not going to happen. That's why there are always new musicains coming along to do that.

As long as Prince continues to create songs that I enjoy I'm fine. I don't have to think they are innovative or better then any other song by someone else. Songs like the dance, 3121, North, SHOE, and Call my name are songs I will enjoy from now until the grave. That's enough for me.

purplecam said:

Co-Sign ...

Everyday life is full of ideas, I don't think he's finished.

Though I do agree with some of your statements regarding Stevie, Madonna or those other examples,I still think that Prince is of a totally different caliber and he´s capable of defying that "rule" of old artists no longer being "hot" or relevant...he could if he wanted to....but he doesn´t, for various reasons.

Whether it´s the way he strives for sonic perfection ( and in the process ruins a lot of good material by overproducing it ), or the self censorship ( why censor old classics when you also have tons of songs that you could play without censoring or butchering them at all, like Elephants and Flowers, Beautiful Ones, Forever In My Life and probably dozens or even hundreds of other songs that don´t contain profanity at all), or maybe it is simply the lack of competition. Prince was at his best when he tried to be the master of everything and made it look so effortless, like in the 80s when there were hot funk groups or artists (Rick James, Michael Jackson in his prime, SOS Band, Midnight Star,Cameo, and the lingering soulful funk sound of the past decade ,the 70s), or hot pop acts or movements like the New Romantics and synth pop, hair metal and Rock bands, Bruce Springsteen , Madonna, or U2 , or whatever....these days, I don´t see anybody that he could see as a challenge.

There was D Angelo in the mid 90s thru 2000 but I guess he was no real threat, looked up too much to Prince, his childhood hero, and was probably regarded as nothing but a dopefiend by Prince, as obvious in some of his videos and lyrics at the time.
Then there are Maxwell and Erykah Badu, and Urban Hang Suite really made me think that Prince would maybe, you know,not really take it as a challenge per se but as some sort of inspiration to come up with something equally sexy and cohesive but no, he was too busy thinking about folks like R.Kelly ( he mentioned him in an interview back then ) or some stupid rappers ( don´t get me wrong,I was into Rap before I was into Prince but fact is,Rap and Prince don´t mix well.....some rappers love Prince, and Prince is into some rap music but that doesnt mean that he really GETS what it is about ).


There are so many different factors,and maybe his last albums didn´t really have that spice and fire of old albums but if there´s one thing I´ve learned over the years as a Prince listener,then it is the fact that you should never count him off. He is Prince ,after all,and in my opinion always has been and always will be in a totally different league than many other artists,including those legends mentioned above in previous posts.

Also, don´t forget all the personal tragedies he´s been through. Where most other musicians would have resorted to drugs,booze or whatnot,he still maintained his dignity and his work ethic and ambition and discipline and shared his music with us. And toured and toured and toured. Hats off to that.
[Edited 9/9/08 12:42pm]

ButterscotchPimp said:

I don't think the problem is with Prince not having new ideas, it's that he has no limitations.

Prince used to be FORCED to come up with new ways and innovations to craft his music. The 1999 album is an example - he didn't have the resources to have a full horn section and was happy creating on his synth. Nowadays, Prince is lazy and just uses a 15 band team to make a song - and the result is boring and lame and lacking innovation.

As he gained a reputation and the resources, he moved from creating MUSIC to trying to creat SONGS. He started wanting to craft songs like it was an artwork, instead of focusing on the music underlying those songs. This is when his music began to get lame. The Black Album and even many tracks on Sign O TImes aren't complicated examples of perfectly crafted songs - but are more briliant because of the music. He now thinks of songs as "babies" and tries to make these things into more than what they are - and he isn't that good at it.

He needs to (1) go back to using more limited instrumentation and (2) stop worrying about crafting a perfect song and start making music again.

Truly creative people don't run out of ideas, they run out of motivation.
There is a difference.

One major issue I have with a lot of his recent material is the fact that the lyrics are, IMO , a tad too cryptic for the masses. Everyone can relate to most of his older songs, songs about breakups, heartache, love, politics, etc. but a lot of his newer songs seem to be going nowhere. It´s not the music that I have a problem with but the lyrics. Take, for instance, that song Incense And Candles...the music is not really bad, it sounds quite contemporary, the vocal delivery is strong but the lyrics seem to be going nowhere, he wants to seduce her, but then again he´s trying to resist temptation, then again he´s hot, but then on the other hand they don´t want to be sinners, and so on...and that´s just the tip of the iceberg ( What Do U Want Me 2 Do and various other songs come to mind)....the lyrics are still part of who he is and what he stands for RIGHT NOW but that doesn´t mean that the Average Joe can relate to those lyrics.
Good pop music, or good music in general, or let´s put it this way, good LYRICS are lyrics that are highly personal yet still accessible by more people than just the singer and his cult fanbase.
The whole world could and still CAN relate to When Doves Cry, The Beautiful Ones, Adore,Forever In My Life,and the list is endless.

Stuff like the end of The Dance sounds like Prince is trying too hard to recapture the agony and pain he (genuinely?) felt when writing and singing the Beautiful Ones...it takes more than just emulating the screams you did in 1984.
What´s this "It´s not faiyahhhh " shit all about ?

But, when all is said and done, I believe Prince can still come up with great music, anytime. He is Prince.

ButterscotchPimp said:

Prince lost that connection 2 his audience years ago. Prince used to write songs out of personal pain and anger. I think a person can only say so much musically. Prince is a genious becuase he put out so many solid albums the first 9 years of his career. prince has inspired so many other artists over the years. Prince no longer does those signiture screams that come from his gut anymore. The beautiful ones you can just connect to the pain and anger towards the woman he desperately wants 2 be with. Prince wasn't forcing anything it naturally oozed out from his heart and soul.

No way, his music is amazing, all his albums are unique, he could never run out of ideas. I am looking forward to the next album and many more.

I think so, all I expect from him now is an official unedited release No Light In A Large Room, All My Dreams and all the others gems.

jn2 said:

You'll be waiting a looooong time for that one to happen.

Jatrig said:

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. I think the problem with Prince's music is exactly the opposite of what you have suggested.

First of all, Sign of the Times and The Black album are pretty much polar opposites of each other, and to lump them together muddies the argument. Sign of the Times has many examples of very well crafted pop songs, and that's what makes the album have presence. The Black album is more of a meandering jam session similar to his later output, and that's where his music falls off. Riffing and vamping is fine for live gigs, but albums full of it get tiresome and lack substance.

His earlier material was chock full of interestingly arranged and well written songs, but lately he's either lost his ability to, or has lost interest in the craft of songwriting.

Once he gets a groove he likes, he stops and commits is to tape as a final song, whereas in the past he most likely took that seed of inspiration, and then worked at crafting a great song around it.

It could be he is just burned out it happend. He doesn't light up when he talks about music like he used to

Graycap23 said:

say it again please...

While, I don't think he's out of ideas simply because there's types of music that he's never recorded and there's so many ideas just with in different types of music itself. I would say that he's repeated himself during his career, which is to be expected, even from him. Prince tries to be different than everyone else, but there's had to be times when he's said to himself, "Man, I love this sound or beat", and just went with it. Right now, I don't think he's trying to blow people away like in his fomative years, but he is trying to continue to challenge himself. Prince lost a lot of listeners after PR because his sound was ever changing, quicker than the general audience could keep up with, that was when I believe he was trying to prove a point. He's not in that mind set today. Today he's mixing the new and the old in his music. There's certain we can't talk about in here in which I respect, but in his whole lexicon, he has a gamit of songs that are truly eyeopeners, creatively speaking.

He said it himself that he has thousands of song put away somewhere weither or not he ot TW owns them but hell he could do deveral ced just of those and sit and chill

Graycap23 said:

Excellent observation.

I do feel that some artists simply burn out at some point, Stevie and James are two good examples of that. However, other artists seem to wax and wane in the latter stages of their career. For instance, Bob Dylan, definitely had his share of creative lows but he's been able to rekindle some of that old magic from time to time and make some great music well after his glory years. I'd put Prince in that category as well. In my eyes, he's proven that he still "has it" with some of his recent songs and I think he's still capable of and WILL make another great album one day.