i absolutely agree that prince's opening soundchecks and performance of aftershows is amazing. i've been to both in 2002 and it is a special treat that is, also, unparalleled. again, i love them both. they both, in my view, have very special talent that few that have ever entered a studio or walked a stage have.

Personally, I don't think either one of them could carry David Lee Roth's jock.

laurarichardson said:

thank You.if Elvis Costello was Black He wouldn't get Junior Love.& I'd take "Mama Use too say" over anything Elvis "Toss" Costello has done.and that was a Bad Joke because Stevie Wonder on a Off Day would Pimp Slap Elvis Costello for even dare coming into a Studio near Him let alone Write in His Pressence.

mistermaxxx said:

Why don't you listen to an album of Elvis Costello first before you start to critisize the man for being loved by the critics and - absolutely inappropriate - being white?

The fact that a lot of critics like Costello's musical output doesn't imply his music is automatically bad. And just because someone says that Costello is a better lyricist than Prince, does this make Prince any worse?

"When I Was Cruel" is the only album of Costello I own, but I can tell you that for sure: Wether it's the compositions, the arrangements, the lyrics, the performances or the production of this whole piece of art itself - everything's damn brilliantly executed.

Greetings,

Anachronist

Anachronist said:

Inappropriate "racial" reference huh? Now what was that Elvis Costello quote regarding Ray Charles...

Elvis C is OK, but under no circumstances is he better than Prince.
Still, I like that so many orgers dig him. Oliver's Army is so quintesentially English that it is a defining moment in British Pop, and he has done so much other good stuff that he deserves respect. Still, he's no Prince

Essence said:

What was the quote by Elvis Costello on Ray Charles?

What I really meant to ask was:

Elvis Costello is releasing 2-disc editions of all his albums with outtakes, b-sides, demos, live tracks, etc.

Do you think that Prince would ever do something wonderful like this, considering his over-priced music club?

IceNine said:

Actually I think he would...
if he hadn't fallen out so acrimoniously with WB.

Since it takes both parties to come to an agreement
to do that kind of remastering & re-issuing, I think
we would have more chance of setting up a successful
Poultry denture care practice.

medoc2003 said:

oh get off your high horse already

4LOVE said:

To piss some critcs and a member of CSN off in an angry young man punk rock-ish influenced manner, way back when he said Ray Charles was just a blind nigger etc:


In March 1979, Costello capped off this productive period in his
> extra-artistic life by getting himself into a scrap with Stephen Stills (of
> Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young fame) and Bonnie Bramlett (a minor singer
> from the '60s) in a hotel bar in Ohio. Again motivated by an unclear principle,
> he did his best to offend them, finally resorting to a burst of profanity and
> bigotry, capped with the assertion that Ray Charles was a "blind, ignorant
> nigger."
>
> There's no evidence that Costello was a racist -- he'd been active in Rock
> Against Racism before it was fashionable and was too smart in any event to
> let it show if he was -- but he was being as stupid, reckless and out of control
> as any of the broken-down '60s stars his energy, brains and invective were
> supposed to be an antidote for. In any event, Bramlett industriously publicized
> the exchange and Costello tried to explain and apologize. He took his lumps in
> a months-long transatlantic brouhaha; to this day some serious critics hold
> him in contempt.
> --


Q. What was the Bonnie Bramlett/Ray Charles incident?
A. Elvis back in early 1979 made some not-so-politically-correct comments
about Ray Charles (calling him a 'blind, ignorant nigger') while drinking
with Bonnie Bramlett and Stephen Stills in the bar of the Holiday Inn
-Downtown in Columbus, Ohio. He also called Stills 'steel nose', in
reference to Stills' one-time cocaine habit. A fight then ensued between
the Attractions and Stills' backing band. He was later forced to make a
public apology at a press conference.

>From an interview with Greil Marcus in Rolling Stone, September 2, 1982:

'What actually happened was this: we were in the bar--Bruce Thomas and I
were in the bar after the show in Columbus, Ohio. And we very very drunk.
Well, we weren't drunk to begin with--we were reasonably drunk. And we
started into what you'd probably call joshing. Gentle gibes between the
two camps of the Stills Band and us. It developed as it got drunker and
drunker into a nastier and nastier argument. And I suppose that in the
drunkenness, my contempt for them was probably exaggerated beyond my real
contempt for them. I don't think I had a real opinion. But they just
seemed in some way to typify a lot of things that I thought were wrong with
American music. And that's probably quite unfair. But at the exact
moment--they did.'

'...What it was about was that I said the most outrageous thing I could
possibly say to them--that I knew, in my drunken logic, would anger them
more than anything else.'

.
[This message was edited Sat Nov 16 17:41:20 PST 2002 by rdhull]

BorisFishpaw said:

But do you think that he would have released all of his demos and alternate versions? This is what I love about the Elvis Costello... he is releasing rough demos and all that...

IceNine said:

mmm, not sure,
He'd put b-sides on there, and maybe the odd unreleased track
that he was sure would never fit on a future album
but he doesn't like releasing demos etc.
so maybe not.

Elvis Costello is the Woody Allen of Rock.

That isn't an insult BTW, He's severely underrated IMO.

medoc2003 said:

Co-sign

Hmmm. Thats a tough one.

I think Elvis Costello has maintained much more integrity as an artist throughout his career than Prince.

Best lyricist? Thats kind of like calling HR Giger and Salvadore Dali the best painters because their work is lush with detail. That's subject to everyone's tastes.

Prince can never seem to figure out whether he wants to be an artist or a pop star. One moment he's dropping something like The Undertaker, the next minute hes whipping up a half baked attempt at being popular again, ala Rave.

Elvis has steadfastly coasted along with his own agenda regardless of how successful his album may or may not be.

Prince will never freely release his outtakes any time soon. Those are the last cards in his deck and he's holding onto them as long as he can.

IceNine said:

Good deal, but hes like a nerdy, borin musician.

Sam

Tom said:

The longer Prince holds onto those last cards, the less they are worth... it is sad, really. If he would have released a ton of outtakes 10 years ago, they would have sold VERY well. If he released them now, he might get 100,000 sales.

What is the man waiting for?

Look, they're both great musicians & songwriters that I admire. But they are 2 different people. I don't wanna compare them cuz they've done too much work and I don't have time for that. Just shut up and dig them both.

Yes Elvis Costello is certainly a great songwriter but I can't stand his "I'm a serious songwriter, I'm so intelligent I'm the king of irony" attitude as if pop music was too weak for someone of his level
Pop Life is a perfect pop song why the fuck did he want to change the lyrics? I guess that Mr Modesty felt the need to improve it , I don't want to choose between Kid Rock & Mr "I've seen everything & I'm blasé"
"he is, without a doubt, the greatest lyricist in music today " Morrissey (although that he's an asshole) is far far better

Anachronist said:

I have listen to Elvis's music. I do not like it. This is my opinion. I do not dislike him because he is white. I dislike him because he is white and nerdy. The nerdy part being more of an issue for me. If music critics had their way all musicians and music groups would look like and sound like Elvis Costello. This is scary to me as a fan of popular music.

In addition, I know all about his comments concerning Ray Charles. The comments he made just show what a ignorant asshole he is and using the excuse that he was drunk does not make it o.k.

In my worst drunken moments I have never made any racist remarks toward anyone. He said those things about Ray Charles because that is what he thinks and belives. The alcohol just put the comment at the front of his mind.

Why don't you just read rdhull's clarification concerning Costello being a racist asshole? If I really wanted to piss someone off and I was drunk, there would be the possibility I would say things I normally wouldn't even think of.

You're right that being drunk isn't an excuse.

But accusing others of being racists doesn't make your own racist comments any better.

You don't like his music - that's another issue.

And where did you all get your information from that music critics look like Elvis Costello, and wanted everyone else to sound like him?

Must be the same source that told you someone wearing horn-rimmed black glasses has to be an intellectual...

Greetings

Anachronist

If I myself called Ray Charles a "blind nigger", everyone who knows me would insinuate that I only wanted to provoke them and test how far I could go with my remarks until crossing the fine line of irony/sarcasm and leaving the dry wit area.

But being drunk saying that of course makes me a racist although no-one ever considered me being one.
[This message was edited Sun Nov 17 6:32:16 PST 2002 by Anachronist]

NWF said:

You completely missed the point of this topic...

Just shut up and answer the question

Here is a little refresher as to what this topic is about:


Rhino Records is re-releasing all of Elvis Costello's records in special re-mastered editions...

Elvis Costello had them release the discs as two-disc sets for the price of a single disc. That is cool in and of itself, but it gets better... the second disc of each set is loaded with alternate takes, demos, live tracks and other unreleased material.

Do you think that Prince would EVER do something this cool for his fans, or do you think that he would try to gouge you for $100 for 4 discs and NOT include anything cool?

Four discs from Elvis Costello = $30 at Best Buy
Eight discs from Elvis Costello = $60 at Best Buy
Twelve discs from Elvis Costello = $90 at Best Buy
You could technically call this 6 discs if you already have the original disc and only want the demos, outtakes and live recordings.

Four discs from Prince = $100 at NPGMC

You might be right.

Elvis who?

Anachronist said:

---
'Why don't you just read rdhull's clarification concerning Costello being a racist asshole? If I really wanted to piss someone off and I was drunk, there would be the possibility I would say things I normally wouldn't even think of.'

I don't have to read Rdhull's clarification I read about this incident when I read a article about Bonnie Bramell who punched Elvis out for making the racist statement.

"If I really wanted to piss someone off and I was drunk, there would be the possibility I would say things I normally wouldn't even think of."

When I want to piss someone off I make comments about that individual not someone else who is not even in the room. If you think about it instead of making a racist crack about Ray Charles why not just attack Steven Stills band and leave it at that.

"But accusing others of being racists doesn't make your own racist comments any better.'

I am not accusing Elvis of being a racist. He made a racist statement. I said that he is nerdy and white. Elvis is white and he does appear to be a nerd. Unless of course he is pretending to be a nerd. We all know he is not pertending to be a white man. There is nothing racist about my comments.

I read a lot of pop criticism and if a picture is included with the article it is almost always a nerdy looking white man. These guys like nerd rock and really do not seem to appreciate anything else or have knowledge of any other types of music.

laurarichardson said:

The same people who have heaped so much praise on Elvis Costello also heaped praise on Prince when he was at the peak of his powers.

IceNine said:

---

I not so sure about that. Some of the nerd critics are saying Beck is a great funk artist and is better than Prince.
Beck would not know funk if it fell from the sky and hit him in the head.

I'll admit that Elvis has lyrics that are intellectual but please take education and background into consideration. Elvis was a computer programmer. Prince is a high school graduate. Elvis was able to have a twenty year carreer selling a minimal amount of records. Prince would have been dropped by Warner Brothers years ago if he had the type of record sales Elvis had.

The music industry does not accept intellecutual lyrics from African-American performers. If you want proof just look at the why the music industry pushes ignorant rap groups.

A door was opened to Elvis that never was opened for Prince.

shygirl said:

Who make these many message?

Elvis Costello is second best funky but not close as good as Prince.