As much as i admire the input from the members of the Revolution during a large part of the eighties (a period that defined the Minneapolis sound, and that did take things a step further on the colourfull 'soundscapes' on ATWIAD and Parade), i think that, ultimately, they reached their limits as being the 'right' live-band for Prince in 1986.

Alltough 'on record' Prince and the members of the Revolution sure had a lot of synergy, i think the live-tours (The Purple Rain and Parade-tours) showed that at least some of the members werent capable enough to (re)create the music that Prince had in his mind.
Bobby Z i consider a decent drummer, but not outstanding, and i have never really been impressed with Brownmarks bassplaying. Next to that, Wendy and Lisa might be proper studio / session-artists, but during concerts they weren't exceptionally lean and impressive sounding.
I think you can hear that on the live-shows from the Purple Rain tour: the music often misses subtlety and becomes a bit stalled and wooden.
You can hear it even more on material from the Parade tour. While the music benefitted from some stark horn-input from Eric Leeds and Atlanta Bliss, the rest of the band showed problems with handling the more complex arrangements Prince thought out for his songs. Especially when the band started to jam, it appeared the Revolution wasnt all that 'tight' and that the music had the tendency to sound 'messy'.

Taking a look at Princes decision to stop with the (original) revolution, i think that decision was (among other reasons) fuelled by the incapability of that band to deal with the more complex, jazzy arrangements that Prince wanted to produce during live performances.

Prince allready had expanded the Revolution in 1986 with the jazz-cats Eric Leeds and Matthew Bliss.
And to me it seems very 'logical' that he did replace the 'weakest part' of the original Revolution: the rhythem section, with more versatile, 'capable' players in the form of Sheila E and Levi Seacer jr.
The departure of Wendy and Lisa probably had some 'other' reasons also. I mean, Prince did get quite some critism during that period by people who were saying: you are moving to far away from your 'signature sound', or, in more blatant terms: your music is getting too 'white', what about your original black fans?
I can imagine Prince felt influenced by that kind of remarks, and next to that, Wendy and Lisa were maybe getting so 'close' as songwriting-partners, that it did get too 'intimate' for him. Who knows?

But to conclude: I think the Parade-tour showed that Prince was aiming to create more complex, jazzy arrangements live, and that he (and other people, including myself) felt that the Revolution at that time wasnt able enough to furfill that wishes.
That being one of the main reasons he stopped with the original Revolution, and going further with the 'counter-revolution'.

Anyone agrees?

Nope.

I respect your opinion though.

Don't agree either - it was one of the best he had.

Don't agree but they were limited based on where Prince was going, plus he needed new synergy from new members anyway.

I dont agree either

Prince peed in his own fucking backyard and then was surprised it started smelling. Real weird.

The problem is that Prince became friends with SOME of the band members and then started shagging one of their sisters, while still having other ladies on the side.

Of course he needed a break from that. But I suppose the decision was not his, in the long haul; it was Wendy & Lisa that decided to split and they were at the heart of what The Revolution had become; friends. It was not strange that Prince disbanded the rest, even though he kept some band members of the expanded Parade Revolution.

In in the long, long haul, does it really matter? Prince still remembers his time with The Revolution as something special, as he worked on Roadhouse Garden a long time after they split. Why that didn't happen? Who knows? In the end they are all Prince's decisions, like it or not.

I'm not sure that you can use the purple rain tour as an example... I agree with you, but I'm not sure that it was due to their inabilities as musicians

I think that tour was a bit over rehearsed... every show was pretty much the same (i think Prince was feeling pressure to live up to the hype of the film)

I thought they sounded great on the Parade tour

I don't think they were the best live musicians ever, or his tightest band... but I think they held up their end.

eric leeds... a sweet little man.... love him, but not hugely impressed by his playing

robinesque said:

Glad Prince heard the genius in Eric Leeds' playing, though. Of all the people he had solo-ing over his songs, I think Leeds was one that at least was an equal, musically and not a puppet.

They weren't his best band,
but they looked the coolest.

TheMightyCelestial said:

They conveyed his 'feel' of a GCS-like band the best and mixed it with the sound that made him famous. They cross-referenced him to other styles of music best, like Sheila and Renato did the last few years, albeit a bit less obvious.

robinesque said:

Uh,...nah. Did u ever ACTUALLY see Prince live on the Purple Rain tour? Or ar u going strictly by the VHS tape that was officially released? I saw Prince 4 times live on the Purple Rain tour alone. Each show was different. Not only were a lot of the arrangements different on many of the songs...especially on cuts like I Would Die 4 U, Computer Blue, and Darling Nikki, but P played different songs that weren't in the set before. On one show he opened up with playing most of Erotic City from behind the curtain. On another show, for his encores, he played the song America AND Pop Life before ATWIAD was released. The band during the shows that I attended, did quite a bit of jamming, all the while echoing Hendrix, James, and Sly Stone's vibe. Their set varied from each night..Sure they played Let's Go Crazy and The Beautiful Ones but they vamped for a good 15 minutes on the song 1999 alone. And then another 20 minutes on Possessed. He also played a full version of Lady Cab Driver at the Long Beach show. And when he performed the song Purple Rain, it was always different. On two of the shows, he let various members like Brenda and Susan, Sheila and members of her band, sing with him during the choruses. On other nights, nobody else was even on stage with him except for the Revolution. And how long P decided to play his guitar solos on that song varied drastically as well. Each show was very different.

blackguitaristz said:

If he had played Europe with that, I would have. But at least I saw every single one of his Dutch SOTT performances...

I agree somewhat.I think that the SOTT/Lovesexy band was Prince's best band.I can see why Prince felt the need to start over with a new band.

HamsterHuey said:

HamsterHuey - me and my 4 bunnies already love U - hoera!

It was just time for everyone to go they're separate ways, I really think he had outgrown them.

I think he has had tighter bands. But his sound now is polished and perfected almost a bit too much.

I think that Prince was starting to get too orchestrated with the live shows and he can be grueling to work with and you HAD to get the sound as he heard it. I think the Revolution liked creating the music but performing it was a different matter. The music I think was more complex and more difficult to do in a live setting. SOme of the songs also don't translate live very well, like When Doves Cry.

I think the band he chooses these days is more "on their game" live wise and he allows them to stretch out more.

I listened to a great number of Prince concerts world-wide. Dirty Mind tour, 1999 tour, Purple Rain tour, Parade-Tour, up to last year's concerts in London. Of course there is a basis but every concert was different. I loved Eric Leeds playing Mutiny during the Parade tour - fab sax and perfect timing, I prefer him over Candy D. As much as I loved the concerts in London last year - my preference would still be The Revolution over the NPG.

And even if his concerts only differ little from one another - most bands, past and present, only play the same set during a tour.

blackguitaristz said:

I was going of a couple of recordings and some boots.

hey, I stand corrected though. no sweat...

you know what, it's actually ridiculous for me to contribute to this thread at all (because I haven't even seen him live at all).. I'm going
[Edited 8/29/08 15:20pm]

HamsterHuey said:

agreed... thrilled he worked with Eric, he introduced Prince to jazz didn't he? I just don't think he was any sort of genius jazz saxophonist though (of course I don't think he or anyone has claimed he was)

robinesque said:

Hehehe, I think it was Prince's father who introduced him to jazz. I suppose Eric Leeds' playing was something Prince could incorporate into the music he was playing then and make it better. Prince once said something in the vein of that Eric played the sax as Prince would have, if he had played it.

HamsterHuey said:

Nah, let them think Eric hipped P to jazz..u know..whatever. Of course his own dad, who played jazz, wouldn't had hip his son to anything right? Of course not. It sounds better perhaps if Eric hipped P to jazz, I guess. U know, like how Wendy, not Lisa, just Wendy, how she hipped P to The Beatles. That's more....interesting I guess. Cuz Lisa was too black her damn self so...It HAD to be Wendy. Hmmm,...I wonder who hipped P to Carlos. (Oh, that's Santana for those who were wondering who Carlos was)..

I think alot of Prince's rock influences are something he was exposed to on radio, as he explained in early interviews. And he's been around enough cool cats that exposed him to a huge variety of different artists.

And Carlos was big in the 70's. It would be hard for Prince not to notice a guitar playing man of colour, as there weren't that many around, not on a global stage.

I really hate it when people say he needed to be introduced to music. I think Prince was smart enough to pick out his own faves through a variety of sources.
I for instance credit W&L more for getting him in touch with his feminine side musically, instead of the long funky groove jams he was known for. To me, the fact they were surrounded by so many people not hung up on a certain music style, opened up Prince's mind to a bigger sound, like the different hues of All My Dreams and the song Around he World In A Day.

HamsterHuey said:

shit.. you're right
(i do say dumb shit sometimes I was a blonde for big part of my life... I think there may still be some residual shit going on there)

robinesque said:

LoL

who's that knockin' on our door, didn't we throw you out before?

when will these anti-Revolution bait postings stop?

eaglebear4839 said:

Complainer. Freedom Of Speech!

Couldn't disagree more.

blackguitaristz said:

Exactly. His mother was also a jazz singer. And P grew up in Minneapolis where I'm sure he was exposed to a lot of variety.

if anyone thinks that "The Revolution" wasn't a capable live band they need 2 remember this....at most of his shows there wasn't always a set list which means the band didn't always know what song Prince was gonna call out next...do u know how bad u gotta be 2 play a random Prince tune even if it's unrehearsed and still rock it?