robinesque said:

lol! All the time!

larksanders said:

That's why Prince is so upset. He wants people to love his new music, but the fact that the majority of people hate all of his new music, and the fact that Prince hasn't written good music in 10-20 years, infuriates him. Prince probably can't handle that truth, so he decides to shut down the unreleased music availability because it's the only thing he can try to do. He obviously can't write quality music since he's no longer surrounded by real musicians, like Wendy and Lisa.

All in my opinion...

Genesia said:

If that's the truth, she must be really old and ugly now. His music used to be a young, fresh, and exciting thing. Now it's old, fat, and ugly. Just like an old wife!

larksanders said:

Record the call. Frame the email

CleopatraJones said:

More exposure of your work is a form of advertising/selling your work and yourself, marketing strategy. It helps anyone's career.

luv4u said:

so true!

I was just double checking that my comments match up with copyright in Australia

A couple of kids up north are doing community service for uploading videos(but with suspended sentences.. so still have a criminal record, which has its own consequences)

Crap, I break copyright laws alllll the time. All those mixed tapes I make at xmas and valentines day... whooops

Actually, i suspected as much. I'm such a friggen rebel!

Anyway.. I was wondering if it might be worth having some of this information on the org permanently. Philisophical discussions aside, i think people should know when they are breaking the law.

for example
1. watching clips/mp3's would not be illegal (i don't think)
but,
2. downloading or uploading or sharing outside your immediate family or household would be (this is with official material) unless you had a licence to do so
3. playing music in a public forum without a licence is a no no
4. apparently dj's can't play copies of vinyl without permission (they can play the original vinyl though.. assuming the venue is licenced)


usually we know when we have broken the law, but I think with copyright, things get so complicted, people don't realise that they are doing something illegal.

I think it would also be useful to know what sites provide legit MP3's. Is it just itunes?

the right and wrong of this issue could be debated for days... but the legality of ways that music can be shared shouldn't be so difficult to understand

mods: some links with the bootleg statement could be useful

CleopatraJones said:

-----
"hurts the very ones who help made him who he is. "

Please explain how you are being hurt? You are listening to or owning music you did not pay for or at least the artist did not receive compensation for.

In some cases you have music that the "artist" did not even want releashed.

It seems like a win win situation for you and a lose lose situation for the artist. It would be great if some of you would take the finanicial lose to the artist into consideration and discuss this topic like adults.
(and don't go with he has plenty of money no one ever has enough money)

No business person is going to let consumers take free merchandise and I think all of you know that as I doubt you would go down to the corner store and help your self to some free merchandise.

and she says with the fence post firmly stuck up her bum.....

While i can see how and why Prince wants to control his material (for financial, personal and concern for his fans... you know cause we could go blind from watching too much of this stuff).

I can also see that people want to share this material to inspire other to buy his music, go to Prince concert or just share something so you can talk about it and be happy... so while I am sure that there are negative consequences, there would also be positive ones even to prince.....

Hey.. that is why almost every band has a myspace page, utube channel or website... so that people can sample the music and decide whether or not they want more.

When Prince removed himself completely from the internet, he left his fans with no way to receive updates on what he was doing, no way for people with a renewed/new interest in his music to sample his back log, or purchase.

We are not the 'so-called' fans, we are junkies, and when you are truly hooked, you'll probably cave and take whatever you can get, wherever you can get it too.

win-win V lose-lose?

I'd say it is win-lose for everyone

robinesque said:

-----

While i can see how and why Prince wants to control his material (for financial, personal and concern for his fans... you know cause we could go blind from watching too much of this stuff).

No, you are not going to go blind but, are you going to hustle you ass to the store and buy some music if you can listen to it for free? In addition, if you already have the music (cd’s, mp3, and records why do you need to look at videos on YOUTUBE) What did you do before YOUTUBE came along?

I can also see that people want to share this material to inspire other to buy his music, go to Prince concert or just share something so you can talk about it and be happy... so while I am sure that there are negative consequences, there would also be positive ones even to prince.....

You share music by lending someone a CD and I do not see P suffering from lack of concert ticket sells. People know about his music with or without YOUTUBE.

Hey.. that is why almost every band has a myspace page, utube channel or website... so that people can sample the music and decide whether or not they want more.

When Prince removed himself completely from the internet, he left his fans with no way to receive updates on what he was doing, no way for people with a renewed/new interest in his music to sample his back log, or purchase.

We are not the 'so-called' fans, we are junkies, and when you are truly hooked, you'll probably cave and take whatever you can get, wherever you can get it too.


Everybody does not have a YOUTUBE Channel or MYSPACE Page and most of the record labels are asking that clips be taken off of YOUTUBE. Prince is not the only artist that does not want to be on YOUTUBE. I think a lot of you do not realize the state that the music industry is in right now. YOUTUBE does not compensate artist for showing the clips. Artist are paid when their music is played on the radio and when they perform on TV. They even receive money when their music is used on a TV show, or in a movie. For some reason YOUTUBE is not compensating artist or publishing companies for the clips. P pulling these clips and going after bootleggers is a smart business move. If we just wait maybe he will put up a new website once he has a CD coming out.
We just have to wait and see. In the meantime if you have all of his music listen to it and enjoy it.
We all know how to get a hold of the stuff we want so what is the big deal that you cannot share it with millions of others

laurarichardson said:

I agree with you.. the negative consequences are really bad, and i think that people are kidding themselves if they think it is a case of "if it isn't hurting anyone"... of course it is. if you read some of my previous post, you will notice that i have outlined what i think they are.

I am not blind to the consequences... I think you are right to use bold because alot of orgers don't see what these consequences are.

I just also see a positive consequence, even of u-tube clips.

before utube? I would go to the record store and play it before i bought it. But guess what.. now we have this great thing called the internet and you can do that sort of thing online.... advancing technology is an amazing thing

do i buy his music... abso-friggen- lutely... I have bought everything I can my hands on.

Finally, i think you will find that (okay I admit perhaps not everyone) many do have websites/utube chanels/myspace

MJ has a myspace channel, The Time has links to their utube clips on myspace, N-sync (shhh don't ask) has a utube channel.....
The option to use these tools to promote oneself has been taken up by a large number of artists. Not every utube clip online is illegal.

The unauthorised stuff though... sure. As I've said, i feel really bad about it, and i certainly don't feel indignant about them being pulled (but i still enjoyed them)
[Edited 8/21/08 10:28am]

robinesque said:

If he released it, I would then buy it.

If something is not released how can you say that he is losing out on revenue? He is losing nothing as the item is not available for purchase. An artist's revenue from his musical output comes from music sales (be it CD or digital), music being played on the radio or video from which he receives a set payment or the song being covered. Separately, and these days one of the only sure-fire ways to make money, is touring.

There are always those people who will download an album and not buy it. It has happened time immemorial and will continue - right or wrong.

The main issue is if you feel comfortable listening to something that P has not authorised officially for release and was probably stolen by some tech at some point.

robinesque said:

-----
before utube? I would go to the record store and play it before i bought it. But guess what.. now we have this great thing called the internet and you can do that sort of thing online.... advancing technology is an amazing thing
-----
What makes you think P is not going to put his own site up when he has something to promote? You realize that their is no point in him putting up his own site if people are going to go to YOUTUBE and listen and obtain clips for free as you can download the clips off of YOUTUBE.

In the end artist are losing money and fans are not paying for music. You can see the result with the awful crap that the industry is putting out now.

It is great that you go out and buy stuff but trust me most people do not.

laurarichardson said:

If given the opportunity I would love to pay for the music but since he doesn't want to release it for whatever reason that is merely impossible. So I guess I am hurt that I can't give him my hard earned money. As far as your second statement....well I guess a business person would let consumers take free merchandise...or have you so quickly fogotten about musicology. Which leads me to my point that I stated in an earlier post, when it becomes convient for Prince he himself will be the one to post his music and videos on those sites.

laurarichardson said:

You asked the question what did we do before youtube came along. Well Laura let me tell you this sharing thing has been going on a very long time. If you grew up during the eighties like I did you would know that before youtube we used cassete tapes to record off the radio or albums. That's how we shared back then. Essentially it is the same thing and the fact is it will not stop. Sharing didn't stop sells then and it will not hurt sells now. I think it helps bring interest to the artist.
[Edited 8/21/08 15:37pm]

[Edited 8/21/08 15:01pm]

CleopatraJones said:

Damn rights! I used to use cassettes to tape off the radio and tape 12" and 45's and selected tracks off my LPs and tape them onto cassette for myself or for parties/dances where I provided the music. The cassettes are still in excellent working condition to this day.

When I'm alone, my mind takes a drive
Through youtube’s and other websites
All I was brought up in this world 2 know
Is lost when the vault swallows them whole

There's snitches here with us
There's snitches here with us, I know

It's strange how this site works when snitches are in power
One learns 2 tattle and sells out the others
What makes others want 2 change your mind?
All the things I've heard, his music is so sublime

There's snitches here with us
There's snitches here with us, I know

An Org member once shared their favorite site full of Prince bling
And the next time they looked it was deleted, a pitiful thing
If only we can turn back the hands of time
Except there's snitches here with us, his music is sublime

There's snitches here with us
There's snitches here with us, I know

I know

Prime

luv4u said:

Ahh.....What ever happened to the good ol' days!

CleopatraJones said:

Yeah

Remember Prince's appearance on TV at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductee ceremony where Prince tore it up playing "My Guitar Gently Weeps" by George Harrison ? Tom Petty and the guy from ELO were there too, but Prince owned that moment. It gave me chills.

After that show, I checked the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame website to see if a DVD of that ceremony was for sale. It was not. I called the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and asked if they would be offering a DVD for sale. They said No. After several days and several hours of searching, I found a streaming video of the performance online, but was not able to download it. The video was removed a day or two later after I found it. I would have loved to have bought a DVD of the ceremony for Prince's performance only.

That is ONE example of something that I would buy, that I have no opportunity to buy. (I'd also buy the Prince with Beyonce at the Grammy's - was it ?)

We didn't all come to find Prince in the 1970s to follow his rise and buy all the singles, B-sides, etc that were available at the time. Or to see him in concert at his prime, to attend after parties, to go to Paisley Park or First Avenue, , , I would have loved to have been of age and to have the financial resources to have seen and witnessed some of that first hand, but I wasn't.

I check every music store I ever enter for Prince material that I might not have. I have bought rare items off of eBay. I used to buy stuff off of Prince's NPGMusicClub site, but can't do that anymore. And his Love4OneAnother site. . .

But, when I pay high collectible prices for officially released hard-to-find Prince material -- does Prince get a cut from that ? --- No. Does he have any control over the sale of older collectible items ? -- No.

George Lucas allows anyone to record and post videos of Star Wars related items, even using images, clips and sound from the original movies, as long as the person(s) doing this do not SELL or accept money for this.

The Grateful Dead created their career off of encouraging fans to make and distribute bootlegs of shows.

These are 2 examples of people that understand that fans are integral to success and that many of these actions just feed fan loyalty and create future fan-bases and future revenue.

I admired Prince for his fight against Warner's Music when he wrote SLAVE on his face and wanted control of his music. And I loved his Musicology CD inclusion with concert ticket sales to create a chart-topping album without relying on distributors and record stores - very inventive.

Didn't Prince distribute Gett Off to clubs to play because Warner's wouldn't release it, and that's how he got the music company to agree to release it. But, wasn't that a free distribution to the clubs ? That generated the fan interest for the song ? For. . . > purchasing ?!

I must say that as Prince and his people continue to so tightly control every last bit of his material by keeping it AWAY FROM HIS FANS. . he is appearing more and more just like Warner's Music that he so valiantly fought to separate himself from.

And, finally. . . before the internet. . . I went to the public library and checked out albums and cds from there to listen to before buying. I became a HUGE Prince fan precisely because of the ability to listen before buying. . and then I went out and BOUGHT EVERYTHING that I could find of Prince's officially released material, yet still after many years. . .don't have it all.

Should Public Libraries be shut down ? Libraries do let people read books, listen to music and watch videos for free.

I've said my piece.
I hope that Prince's next album has a very personal sound to it. Very heartfelt and killer.
And I hope that his backlog of music, videos and concert audio/video are released someday soon, while I'm still of an age that I can move to it without breaking a hip !

VaVaVoom said:

Excellent!

Very well said vavavoom

that's the only question i have. i guess i could understand his issues with youtube and other sites, but he currently has no site or place for us to visit and enjoy his music officially. regardless of what floats around on youtube, if he were to place it on his site, it will be awesome still. i can't imagine he intends to go on and tour and release new music with no official website. we'll see what the future holds.
[Edited 8/21/08 20:06pm]

I don't understand why folks can't post televised programs he has been on. the grammy's????? Dude it was on TV for everyone to record....

prime said:

CleopatraJones said:

But when the tape broke you had to get a steak knife and unscrew the top and untangle the tape and use scotch tape to fix it. Then there would be a silence right there in that part of the song. We use to wear those tapes out!

prime said:

Or stuff like the BET awards a few years ago w/ Chaka, Stevie, Yolanda and a whole mess of other people. It wasn't even a P performance. It was a Chaka Tribute, his ass just HAPPENED to be in the band, along with a zillion other people.

ToraToraDreams said:

THAT WAS ONE OF THE VIDZ GOT PULLED, YOU KNOW THAT 301 IN 6 HOURS. IM STILL PISSED ABOUT THAT! GLAD I GOT IT THO, ONE OF THE FEW GEMS. LIKE WHATS THE DIFF BTWN TAPING IT AT HOME AND POSTING IT ON THE NET WHERE PPL WHO DIDN'T HAVE CABLE COULD SEE IT?? EVERYBODY KNOWS NOT TO GO SELLING THE STUFF AND IF THAT'S HIS CONCERN HE CAN JUST POST SPYS AS BUYERS! JEEZ PRINCE I LUV U AND YEAH U TRYING TO LOOK OUT 4 YOUR FUTURE AND YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY'S SECURITY BUT DON'T BITE THAT HANDS THAT STILL FEED YA.