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PrintableMrSoulpower said: Anxiety said: you're making her out to sound like she was apollonia 6 or something, and you know way better than that. she didn't have mainstream success but she did have lots of hipster cred. that cred has just intensified with her "comeback" in the past few years, i think. she's still not a household name, but people who love music know and appreciate her. I'm with you on that. I've had all her albums for more than 15 years, and I dig her. But she was absolutely unknown, and BP's claim that she was one of those who laid the foundation of Funk is ridiculous. She's just one of the countless 70s obscure Funk acts. Great music, but really no impact on Funk itself. i get what you're saying, though i wouldn't say her music lacked influence. her work may not have cast as long of a shadow as other, more successful acts, but i think it's inaccurate to totally cut her out of the picture because she was relatively obscure by mainstream standards. | |
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Anxiety said: MrSoulpower said: I'm with you on that. I've had all her albums for more than 15 years, and I dig her. But she was absolutely unknown, and BP's claim that she was one of those who laid the foundation of Funk is ridiculous. She's just one of the countless 70s obscure Funk acts. Great music, but really no impact on Funk itself. i get what you're saying, though i wouldn't say her music lacked influence. her work may not have cast as long of a shadow as other, more successful acts, but i think it's inaccurate to totally cut her out of the picture because she was relatively obscure by mainstream standards. There are literally hundreds of Funk acts from that era that are equally obscure, naughty, funky. I'm not saying that any of them make less good music .. I even prefer the more obscure Funk. But Betty Davis achieved her relative stardom just in recent years, through the CD releases of her old albums. But back in the day, she was an unknown, and the really played little if any role in shaping Funk. That's just how it is. That doesn't mean we can't enjoy her music.  | |
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ButterscotchPimp said: Prince isn't that "funky". Not in the purest definition of the genre. Sure he likes to throw the word around, but in the PUREST sense of the genre he's not even taken that seriously. Prince is so fucking far from the "standard bearer" for funk that's it's not even funny. I mean short of borrowing some stage tricks from James Brown, as well as some horn inflections (also borrowed from JB'S) in the TRUEST sense of the genre, how is Prince really that "funky"? So explain to me how to some of you, Prince became the "keeper of the FUNK"? A-fucking-men, brother. This is what I've been trying to say over here for quite some time, but these fools just won't listen 
Prince can be funky at times, yes. Is he a funk artist? Fuck no. He doesn't even come close. Stop pretending like Prince is the be all and end all of funk. He isn't. It is not known why FuNkeNsteiN capitalizes his name as he does, though some speculate sunlight deficiency caused by the most pimpified white guy afro in Nordic history.
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ButterscotchPimp said: Graycap23 said: Here u go with the JOKES again. Do u know any of these people. I assure u....u DON'T, cause that comment is pure nonsense.
I'm completely serious. Not joking even a little. I knew you'd be the first one in here. Like i said, i'm not going to name drop. Some folks in here know where I am, and what i do for a living, and who i used to be in bands with. Suffice it to say, Prince isn't taken seriously at all in the funk community. Not even a little. So i'm curious as to how some of you arrived at the conclusion that Prince is somehow the "gold standard" for FUNK? Because in some fan's eyes, Prince shits bricks of pure gold and belches of butterflies. Everything he is and says and does is perfection and the ultimate last-word. They're not capable of seeing him as anything but the shiny idol they've declared him, so obviously he must be the grand funk master too. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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i like how nobody felt no kind of way about my previous post does that mean it was spot on? or indecipherable? | |
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Im no big funk-expert, but wasent The Time an outlet of P´s funkier-sides? Freedom is to trust that you're doing what you must according to your lust | |
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ButterscotchPimp said: chocolate1 said: Hide the Bone  
Good call. I agree."Hide The Bone" is one of Prince's funkiest jams.That's exactly the type of hardcore funk that I want more of. | |
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As someone who discovered Funk before she looked into the bulk of prince's work, I would have to agree with the OP
Prior to becoming acquainted to the bulk of the P discography, I had thought of him as a "funky artist" as opposed to a "funk artist". Surely there is some pure funk in there somewhere? Is it good....well I certaintly don't go to my Prince collection when i'm in the mood to listen to funk and when I go out to a club for a specialist funk night... not once have I heard them play Prince I'm trying to think of a current funk artist and having trouble... I'm a little behind the times (always have been actually) can anyone help me out? | |
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ButterscotchPimp said:[quote]You know, i really was trying to avoid doing this but it's gotten to the point where i can't ignore it anymore. What's going on in the Wendy & Lisa thread has pushed me to my breaking point.
Not telling anyone else how to think. Like all things Prince related, everyone has an opinion. Like the one i keep hearing lately about how the Revolution wasn't "funky". Or was so much less "funky" than later incarnations of the band. Or when i hear another artist being put down for not being as "funky" as Prince. Well here's the deal i'd like to discuss now. Mr. Nelson is the title of "Keeper of The Funk" if he wants it. He simplifies his music for attempts at Pop $$$$. It's just that simple. And if Prince called any of those Detroit players for anything, their tunes would change. Believe me. Times are hard, and people talk ----. If Prince, and a Detroit Funk spot with his best players: Sony, Bland, Dr. Fink, Maceo, Eric, Scott It would be over.. alot of our people think being the relaest means that you have to be the most dirtiest and grimiest..and the most unknown.. Like a well kept secret from the inner-cities.. No doubt that there are some brothas who did not get the breaks that Prince did, and are talented. Just because one is the most famous doesn't mean that they are the best, but the fact that his name is in their mouths about the subject means that he probably is. I've not heard any famous musician talked about as being connected with funk, or this type of convesation for the last 2 decades, but Prince alone. I see a lineage more than a "King-ship": Count Basie - JB talked about this man like Prince talks about JB. James Brown George, Bootsy, PFunk Brothers Johnson Larry Rick James Prince The lineage is closed due to our reliance on record companies to tell us who is the best. They and Reganomics killed funk. | |
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before I continue, remember what Prince said: "if you can describe it, then it ain't funky."
that's his definition of funk. now, funk does have certain characteristics - the beat (etc). i see Prince's music as "newfunk." Prince came after PFunk and other funk bands dominated, but also when disco was hip. so, in terms of time, his music is kindof an amalgamation of those two genres. but, he makes so many other kinds of music that one cannot pin him down with a label. as for Prince being the perceived "caretaker" of funk - i think it's because he can play funk, is funky  and has supported the production of funk, as in with GClinton and othersSnare drum pound on the 2 & 4 | |
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The more I learn about funk the less I consider Prince a funk artist, but I do think his music is a great gateway drug for those of us who live in unfunky countries. There was enough funk in Prince's music to get me hooked on the stuff and make me want to explore the genre. I know it's rude, she's a dude, but all I want is easy action baby! -Marc Bolan | |
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ButterscotchPimp said: Graycap23 said: Scarlett Pussy Most of Exodus cd 4 starters. Scarlet Pussy????? Are you kidding me? A simple synth bass line with him and Sheila doing some shit? I like the song, but you'd hold that up as #4 behind anything from George, Bootsy, Sly or Betty? I'll give you that Exodus was probably the closest that Prince ever got to real funk. But that was ONE album, and certainly doesn't place him #4 in the genre, does it? There's got to be more than that? Okay, but how about "DMSR", "Erotic City" or "Controversy". These ARE funk songs! I see your point that P never was a true funk artist - agreed! But claiming that P inst taken seriously from the funk world is another thing.... Do you remember George Clinton and the way he talked about P in a wll known TV documentary? And to be honest George Clinton might be something like the "inventor" of the funk (Together with JB of course) but his music is not even in the same league as Princes, it does not even come close imho... Prince is not a true funk artist by definition. But in most of his songs you can feel and hear the "funk elements" that influenced him and his music so much.... Just my 2 cents! "ohYeeeeeah" said: I'm a massive Bowie fan. Even on Scary Monsters, I always skip Fame ... |
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mistymeadows said: The more I learn about funk the less I consider Prince a funk artist, but I do think his music is a great gateway drug for those of us who live in unfunky countries. There was enough funk in Prince's music to get me hooked on the stuff and make me want to explore the genre.
being 35, when i was young, i think the first time i heard the word funk was by Prince. as you suggest, that is also how i got to appreciate other funk bands and the genre as a whole. i was also thinking about the influence James has on Prince. but Lawd, I think that Prince is about blurring the lines between music....2 me, this is what he's best at, but has actually stopped doing... by at times appearing to want to give the impression that he has mastered all music forms. Snare drum pound on the 2 & 4 | |
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mistymeadows said: The more I learn about funk the less I consider Prince a funk artist, but I do think his music is a great gateway drug for those of us who live in unfunky countries. There was enough funk in Prince's music to get me hooked on the stuff and make me want to explore the genre.
P was the one who introduced me to funk and i have discovered zapp and george clinton since then. Im still searching for funky-music at the moment.  Freedom is to trust that you're doing what you must according to your lust | |
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Efan said: I remember this topic coming up a while ago here, and examples like "Data Bank" (Prince's version) and "La, La, La, He, He, Hee" were called "not funk," which I really didn't understand, because I wouldn't know which genre to put them in. But that's just my lack of knowledge.
I would also think, or assume, that a lot of jazz musicians would say something similar about all the times Prince is celebrated for putting elements of jazz in his music. When Prince uses jazz elements, to me it sounds like jazz 1st and anything else sound like the 'ingredients'. but then jazz has always come in many different shapes and sizes, where funk is perhaps more definable(?). I wonder is funk less able to undergo the evolution that other genres enjoy (jazz, rock, classical, pop)? Is it only funk if it is in it's most pure form? | |
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WHy has no-one mentioned the extended version of I Wish U Heaven (PArts 1,2 & 3 I think).
I can totally undrstand why people would say P isn't a "funk artist" or the be all and end all of funk - mainly, as has been said, because he merges genres and shifts all over the place. OTOH, don't forget GC's "crossover" solo stuff from the 80s which I think is funky as shit! (I mean that as a positive  )
I think there is argument for P's funk baton-bearing rather than saying that he's the ultimate funk artist. There is a series of developments of artists who focused on funk and took it from one place to another having a huge impact on how others played it. P was influential in taking the funk of JB, P-F, Sly and twisting it (you can call it diluting or mixing if you like) in a way that changed the way a lot of funk/funky music is/was played. I mean if you judge P-Funk based on the criteria of JB"s music, they're not Funk, and same vis-a-vis Sly etc. OTOH I think one thing that reduced P's impact in this area is the parallel development of Hip-Hop as the next generation of Funk. But that's a whole other debate. The other thing which obviously diminishes P's funk standing is that, unlike the other cited artists, he's not known MAINLY as a funk musician or for funk music and that's not all he does or tries to do. But I agree with those who have said that funk underlies most of what he's doing and nearly all his music - a kind of starting point. Take the funk out of "Pop Life" say, and what have you got? Does that make it a funk trak? JB would never have made anything like Atomic Dog or even Give Up Tha Funk, does that mean they're not Funk? JB also does straight up soul BTW and stuff that's semi-gospel. That doesn't stop him being Funky... [Edited 8/20/08 4:01am] "We've never been able to pull off a funk number"
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Anxiety said: ButterscotchPimp said: Where you get the overall point (thank god), we're going to have to agree to disagree on Betty. Especially when i KNOW that Prince borrowed HEAVILY from her early on. without betty's "dedicated to the press", there would be no "sexuality", and for that matter, no "owwah!" 
THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN' BOUT!!!!! someone with some schoolin'!!!!! http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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Anxiety said: MrSoulpower said: Betty is more known today than in '73, when she first came out. She really had no commercial success and therefore little impact on Funk. Her bandmembers were already well established before playing with her .. she was really just a side project. you're making her out to sound like she was apollonia 6 or something, and you know way better than that. she didn't have mainstream success but she did have lots of hipster cred. that cred has just intensified with her "comeback" in the past few years, i think. she's still not a household name, but people who love music know and appreciate her. And even beyond "hipster cred", people in the KNOW, the MUSICIANS certainly knew and were VERY AWARE of what Betty was doing, and i know that the P-Funk camp certainly paid attention. She definately influenced them. So from that standpoint, not from a commercial success standpoint i'm saying she laid some groundwork. http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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hollywooddove said: butterscotch, I have often thought that Prince is not as funky as he says he is. As a matter of fact, there are some songs that he uses the word funky and it really isn't a funky song. He does have a few songs that I feel are funky.
Billy Jack Bitch House Quake and those are about the only two that come to mind. Funk on this side..... is not a funky song. Even though there are some really cool things on SOTT, like 4-ever in my life, it doesn't define true funk. But hell, SOTT kicks ass without being funky. I really don't know why Prince wants to associate himself as funky so badly, I think his own style,Prince's style, is original, worth more than funk because of it's rarity, and should be enough for him. Ah, another person that gets the discussion. Thank you very much. Those are both 2 of my favorite "Prince-funk" songs, i personally just don't feel that they're real "funk". I agree with you with the fact that Prince's style is his own and shouldn't be labeled as "funk". So far i'm pleasantly surprised this morning! http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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ButterscotchPimp said: hollywooddove said: butterscotch, I have often thought that Prince is not as funky as he says he is. As a matter of fact, there are some songs that he uses the word funky and it really isn't a funky song. He does have a few songs that I feel are funky.
Billy Jack Bitch House Quake and those are about the only two that come to mind. Funk on this side..... is not a funky song. Even though there are some really cool things on SOTT, like 4-ever in my life, it doesn't define true funk. But hell, SOTT kicks ass without being funky. I really don't know why Prince wants to associate himself as funky so badly, I think his own style,Prince's style, is original, worth more than funk because of it's rarity, and should be enough for him. Ah, another person that gets the discussion. Thank you very much. Those are both 2 of my favorite "Prince-funk" songs, i personally just don't feel that they're real "funk". I agree with you with the fact that Prince's style is his own and shouldn't be labeled as "funk". So far i'm pleasantly surprised this morning! I am confused now  Is Prince's funk a myth or NOT ?
By the way Hutterscotch try one of these  | |
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FuNkeNsteiN said: ButterscotchPimp said: Prince isn't that "funky". Not in the purest definition of the genre. Sure he likes to throw the word around, but in the PUREST sense of the genre he's not even taken that seriously. Prince is so fucking far from the "standard bearer" for funk that's it's not even funny. I mean short of borrowing some stage tricks from James Brown, as well as some horn inflections (also borrowed from JB'S) in the TRUEST sense of the genre, how is Prince really that "funky"? So explain to me how to some of you, Prince became the "keeper of the FUNK"? A-fucking-men, brother. This is what I've been trying to say over here for quite some time, but these fools just won't listen
Prince can be funky at times, yes. Is he a funk artist? Fuck no. He doesn't even come close. Stop pretending like Prince is the be all and end all of funk. He isn't.
Suffice it to say, i KNEW if there was ONE SOUL on this board that would understand where I was coming from, it would be YOU. http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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Irresistable Bitch live on the Purple Rain tour is some of the funkiest shit I've ever heard. | |
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meow85 said: ButterscotchPimp said: I'm completely serious. Not joking even a little. I knew you'd be the first one in here. Like i said, i'm not going to name drop. Some folks in here know where I am, and what i do for a living, and who i used to be in bands with. Suffice it to say, Prince isn't taken seriously at all in the funk community. Not even a little. So i'm curious as to how some of you arrived at the conclusion that Prince is somehow the "gold standard" for FUNK? Because in some fan's eyes, Prince shits bricks of pure gold and belches of butterflies. Everything he is and says and does is perfection and the ultimate last-word. They're not capable of seeing him as anything but the shiny idol they've declared him, so obviously he must be the grand funk master too. Yeah, i know and normally i just laugh at it. But it got to a point where it was like Prince is the keeper of the funk and artists who worked with him and had similar styles were "funkless". I'm still waiting on why "Scarlet Pussy" is dramatically funkier than "Fruit On The Bottom"? I guess now that this thread hasn't turned out the way they liked, and i'm not made out to be the completely crazy "Prince-hater" they don't want to stay in the discussion anymore?  http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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Gimmesomehorns said: Im no big funk-expert, but wasent The Time an outlet of P´s funkier-sides?
To an extent, but even still from a pure funk definition it's not even close. And i'm a HUGE Time fan, but do i consider them "funk"? No. http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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SoulAlive said: ButterscotchPimp said:
Good call. I agree."Hide The Bone" is one of Prince's funkiest jams.That's exactly the type of hardcore funk that I want more of. The first time i heard that song, that was exactly how i felt. I was like "now THAT'S the funk!" I played it yesterday, and it's still NASTY. Good shit. http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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MrSoulpower said: Ifsixwuz9 said: James Brown - last funk album 1974 (The Payback) WTF?? Brown released numerous great Funk albums after "Payback". Were they popluar? Did they chart? What was the position? What were the singles or hits from them. I'm not talking about compiliations, reissues, or greatest hits with bonus tracks things like that I'm talking about flat out full new albums that generated a funk hit. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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ButterscotchPimp said: SoulAlive said: I agree."Hide The Bone" is one of Prince's funkiest jams.That's exactly the type of hardcore funk that I want more of. The first time i heard that song, that was exactly how i felt. I was like "now THAT'S the funk!" I played it yesterday, and it's still NASTY. Good shit. When U ask me what my favorite Prince "funk" song is, that's the 1st song that comes to mind. Other stuff is "funky", but that song causes me to make the "funk face" Prince speaks of.   "Love Hurts. Your lies, they cut me. Now your words don't mean a thing. I don't give a damn if you ever loved me..." -Cher, "Woman's World" | |
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robinesque said: As someone who discovered Funk before she looked into the bulk of prince's work, I would have to agree with the OP
Prior to becoming acquainted to the bulk of the P discography, I had thought of him as a "funky artist" as opposed to a "funk artist". Surely there is some pure funk in there somewhere? Is it good....well I certaintly don't go to my Prince collection when i'm in the mood to listen to funk and when I go out to a club for a specialist funk night... not once have I heard them play Prince I'm trying to think of a current funk artist and having trouble... I'm a little behind the times (always have been actually) can anyone help me out? Well like usual, funk for the mainstream takes some huge breaks. And with Miley Cyrus and the Jonas Brothers topping the charts these days, there really aren't any "mainstream" funk artists of note right now. Underground wise (where funk has always lived anyways) there's a ton of stuff. A lot of P-Funk spinoff stuff, some of which is pretty good. Actually the person that's gotten probably closest to mainstream funk status recently is probably Outkast/Andre 3000 i'd argue. go here and find some underground gems. tell em i sent ya! (j/k) www.thefunkstore.com http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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ButterscotchPimp said: SoulAlive said: I agree."Hide The Bone" is one of Prince's funkiest jams.That's exactly the type of hardcore funk that I want more of. The first time i heard that song, that was exactly how i felt. I was like "now THAT'S the funk!" I played it yesterday, and it's still NASTY. Good shit. Indeed!! I went nuts when I first heard that song.I had been waiting for Prince to give us something like that. | |
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Linn4days said:[quote] ButterscotchPimp said: You know, i really was trying to avoid doing this but it's gotten to the point where i can't ignore it anymore. What's going on in the Wendy & Lisa thread has pushed me to my breaking point.
Not telling anyone else how to think. Like all things Prince related, everyone has an opinion. Like the one i keep hearing lately about how the Revolution wasn't "funky". Or was so much less "funky" than later incarnations of the band. Or when i hear another artist being put down for not being as "funky" as Prince. Well here's the deal i'd like to discuss now. Mr. Nelson is the title of "Keeper of The Funk" if he wants it. He simplifies his music for attempts at Pop $$$$. It's just that simple. And if Prince called any of those Detroit players for anything, their tunes would change. Believe me. Times are hard, and people talk ----. If Prince, and a Detroit Funk spot with his best players: Sony, Bland, Dr. Fink, Maceo, Eric, Scott It would be over.. alot of our people think being the relaest means that you have to be the most dirtiest and grimiest..and the most unknown.. Like a well kept secret from the inner-cities.. No doubt that there are some brothas who did not get the breaks that Prince did, and are talented. Just because one is the most famous doesn't mean that they are the best, but the fact that his name is in their mouths about the subject means that he probably is. I've not heard any famous musician talked about as being connected with funk, or this type of convesation for the last 2 decades, but Prince alone. I see a lineage more than a "King-ship": Count Basie - JB talked about this man like Prince talks about JB. James Brown George, Bootsy, PFunk Brothers Johnson Larry Rick James Prince The lineage is closed due to our reliance on record companies to tell us who is the best. They and Reganomics killed funk. I disagree. Prince wouldn't even show up with that lineup against some of George's castoffs. Not in a "funk-off". Prince is an exceptional performer WHEN REHEARSED. Prince's improv skills have always been somewhat debatable to me. And from a "funk" standpoint, he'd get killed. Again, just my opinion. http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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