L4OATheOriginal said:

BSP, It's not about changing U'r mind.....it's about, hopefully, adding a bit of detail 2 the mind U seem 2 have closed up.
When I 1st read U'r thread....I thought U were genuinely looking for help, but it seems your mind was already made up and you just wanted 2 find people who thought like you. So let's do what L4OA says and help us try 2 understand what U consider funk from the world of Prince.....his protoges too.
As 4 the PUREST DEFINITION.....I have yet 2 hear it. U must have one, because U R defending it, so please enlighten us with this DEFINITION.

Good Idea Freddie.
[Edited 8/29/08 8:27am]

PoorGoo813 said:

I was looking to understand where the "myth" came from. I think i figured that out around page 10 or so. Some people have very different ideas as to what "funk" actually is. And now the conversation has evolved to another very interesting topic but is also directly related. I don't think Prince had a sweeping effect on the funk or r&b in those early years. And i'm still here willing to discuss that with anyone that wants to actually DISCUSS it and has some takes to back it up!

ButterscotchPimp said:

But U seem 2 have passed over L4OA's request 4 a list.....which I feel would start up a new convo.

PoorGoo813 said:

Good lord. Okay, what "list" is it that you're looking for from me?

L4OAtheOriginal said:

PoorGoo813 said:

Okay, one of those is a pretty short list and the other one is extremely long. I mean, if you want a list of Prince songs that i think are funky, that could take me the better part of a day to compile.

You want a list of Prince songs that I'd classify as "funk" then that's a pretty short list.

Which?

PoorGoo813 said:

The short list of songs from Prince that i think are "funk".

We Can Funk
Hide The Bone

and from The Time,
My Drawers

That's it.

I really wrestled with adding The Exodus Has Begun, but decided against it.

ButterscotchPimp said:

Seriuosly?!?!?
The Exodus Has Begun?!?!
If that's not funk, then how would U classify it?

ButterscotchPimp said:

GTFOH.

PoorGoo813 said:

It's Prince! He's his own classification. I mean the end is sort of funk, but the verses kinda aren't. And neither are the horn inflections. It's more Prince than "funk", which is why i decided against it.

Graycap23 said:

No. And where'd Murph go? I'm still waiting on a response to my last effort at disproving the whole "Prince changed the course of funk and r&b in '80 - '82" myth?

ButterscotchPimp said:

LOL....U remind me of that boxer that gets his ass kicked for 9 rounds straight, gets a little flurry in and then raises their hands in victory...It's not that serious homie...The funny part is I've been very humorous throughout, but I've never stooped down to the blatant disrespect you have shown...but hey, it is what it is...

Now on to your list:

Just because you can Google I'm supposed to be shook?...As usual u fell to see the big picture...So let me spell it out for you...

We are talking about funk, right? And I notice that the only two funk acts listed that list of acts is Rick and the Gap Band...

You throwing out Jermaine Jackson, Stevie, Smokey, Aretha, Kool And The Gang, and Grover Washington Jr?...lol...These indeed were popular and damn good albums embraced by the black community....But they were not what was poppin on the funk music circuit...They were not on the funk circuit...They were not the sound of what was bubbling with the young black music scene...In other words, no one was trying to jack the production of those acts by the beginning of the '80s...

I think Rick is the only cat out of the bunch who had that sort of impact in terms of his music...As well as Prince....Dude was the newness...the underground...He was looked at in the same vein as Rick, and actually more(production wise, not as an artist...Rick was a superstar by then...Prince was still nipping at his heels)since its been noted that Rick's "Superfreak" was influenced by the new wave-funk of the Dirty Mind album and well as white punk acts.....

This is all about the new breed who were crafting new sounds...It just so happened that the production on those three albums (Dirty Mind, The Time, Controversy) was the curve pitch that the youth and funk musicians were checking out...And it showed in subsequent albums of those BLACK funk acts....

Now I have to get back to work...peace...
[Edited 8/29/08 10:52am]

murph said:

I'm going to stop short of calling you a straight up clown, but your little delusion of what you think you've done on this thread is comical. You're Mike Tyson. Gotcha. And you're the one that's in here acting like you write for fucking Rolling Stone and dismissing anyone that doesn't agree with your weak ass argument as "having not listened to music".

Nice try on trying to insinuate that i threw out Aretha Franklin and Grover Washington, Jr as "funk acts". Now who the fuck is baiting and switching? YOU were talking about how Prince was "relevant" in the black community in '80-'82. I Googled the BILLBOARD CHARTS and came up with the albums that topped the charts and then pointed out how the sound you gave credit to PRINCE for injecting into funk and r&b was already happening on it's own, and THIS is what you come back with?

I expected better from you, actually.

ButterscotchPimp said:

Again you're proving just how stupid you are. Anyone that's actually read me knows that I don't do the "private message" thing on here. My thoughts are out in the open. An easy thing to do when you're right. Again WE DON'T CARE WHERE YOU GO, BECAUSE YOU'RE JUST NOT THAT RELEVANT. You said something stupid, that was tantamount to Ross Perot referring to black people as "You People". And now your posts that show you waffling, are nothing more than a plea for help. You screwed up, and now your paying the price for it.

If you want to dig yourself out of the hole you're in, stop speaking your mind (what little material there is to work with in the first place) and start speaking factually.

ButterscotchPimp said:

BP,

Savvy is right you cant post orgnotes like that says in the forum rules(it is the last rule in the rule section):

Respect others' privacy and belongings.
Don't post orgNotes, e-mails or other private correspondence in public forums. Don't make private information about other users, public. Don't take avatar or other graphics and use them as your own, or as the basis for your own, without permission.

I got in trouble for this as well once not a good thing to do.

*walks out of the thread*

Back on topic: I still say everyone has their own opinion about what "funk" actually is.
[Edited 8/29/08 11:29am]

PurpleJam said:

Yeah,I had basically touched on this much earlier in this thread when I broke down how P "blended" rock into his funk grooves.

So far i havent reacted on this thread. But what the OP is stating is pure misconception, IMO.

I agree, Prince might not be a pure 'funk'-artist in essence, but that is exactly what i like about the fellow: as much as i love funk, i am glad he isnt repeating itself and far more versatile then James Brown and George Clinton.

But when it comes to Princes funk-legacy i see a straight line from: James Brown, Sly Stone, George Clinton to the Minneapolis sound.
Funk has never been a style of music that is 'puritan' at all, like for example: Blues and reggae.
One of the main strengths of funk is that its a style of music that can mix so well with other styles of music, to create new kinds of arrangements and sound experience.
James Brown might have created the pure 'backbone' of funk, but The Meters mixed it with swampy New Orleans sounds, Sly Stone melted it with psychedelic rock and soul, Miles Davis brought it into jazz-fusion and George Clinton propelled it into space.
The main achievement of Prince is that he has used ´the funk´ to redefine how music should sound, how you can arrange songs in a special way. And, of course, as not merely a funkartist (Cameo and Rick James come to mind) he has been intelligent and versatile enough to influence the whole 'landscape of pop'.

There is no myth of funk, its a history lesson. Prince did understand funk in the early eighties, and saw the possibilities funk had to merge with pop, rock, new wave and soul. It gave us the Minneapolis sound.
And allthough Prince hasnt released any 'pure funk'-albums during his career (but who gives a damn about puritans?), i can easily say that his album '1999' and the more 'refined' incursions into beat programming and arranging after that (especially the Sign of the Times album) have had a tremendous influence on how music 'sounds' nowadays.

Personally i consider 1999 his most influential album. You hear stark echoes from it on the production work of Timbaland, Missy Elliot and the Neptunes. Next to that: the commercial style of the swedish producers from 'bubblegum' acts like Britney Spears and The Backstreet Boys is obviously influenced by it: the ways the beats are programmed, the synth sounds, its all there.
But there are also more 'left-wing' artists influenced by those sounds, especially in the dancedepartement. The current electro-funk movement owes a lot to Prince. Artists like Daft Punk, Peaches and Stijn 'steal' a lot from Princes early incursions intro electro-funk.

Next to that, the often more refined drum-and-bass demosound Prince shows on especially Sign of the Times can be heard again on Lenny Kravitz debut album, on the albums of the 'English Prince' Karl Wallinger (aka World Party) and Beck knows to deal with it also. So (alternative) rockartists find inspiration in Prince too.

Finally, you have so many artists who are indirectly influenced by what Prince has done: Outkast, certain hip-hop productions (combining digital beats with acoustic instruments), Madonna, Justin Timberlake, Janet Jackson (during her Jam and lewis-period), D'angelo, The Roots, to name a few.

To conclude: Prince might be not a funk-artist in essence, he is simply more then that. He has used elements of the funk to create his own music and in that way influenced numerous of others who came after him.

toots said:

Interesting how my threads get locked up 4 stuff much LESS dramatic than this.

toots said:

I agree with you and there is nothing wrong with anyone here having a different view of funk.

to purplecam
[Edited 8/29/08 11:41am]

This discussion is, frankly, retarded.

When Roger Troutman, who knew a thing or two about ridiculously heavy funk, name-checked Prince on 'It Doesn't Really Matter', he was acknowledging a fact that every musician who has ever released a funk record knows.

Prince's funk is colossal. It is huge. I'm sitting here listening to 'Rock Hard in a Funky Place'. I could be listening to any of tunes with a gated snare and a syncopated Lynn rhythm.

After this post I'm not going to contribute to this thread since it's been started by someone who doesn't really either the tradition or the possibilities of funk music. I'm simply here to register my disgust.

Go and listen to the first Slapbak album, to the last Cameo albums, even D'Angelo's 'Brown Sugar'. Go and google for Tease.

Oh yeah, go here:

http://theheaviestfunkint...press.com/

Get some education.

This thread is a disgrace to black music.
[Edited 8/29/08 11:56am]

murph said:

17?

oh!!! .. no no.. I was saying that I am 17 hours ahead of the site....I'm in Australia (which is my excuse for a having a stunted knowledge of the funk genre)- I'm often not online at the some time as everyone else.

i hope i still get props though

robinesque said:

LOL....It's all good...u seem like cool folks...I will org u later with some albums to pick up...

Splanknasty said:

Couldn't AGREE more.
I think that was the intent.

robinesque said:

IMHO you still get props for being open for your views on this topic, which I cant bring myself to do since I see the way the thread is going.

*props*

savvy said:

Wow. For someone that you don't find "relevant" and that you do find as "stupid", you sure seem to be spending a lot of energy on this thread trying to prove some misguided point.

You say i'm waffling, but i think i've discussed whatever was in front of me, proven my point REPEATEDLY and have given as good as i've gotten.

It's all perception, i guess.
Here's a "I Hate BSP" membership card for ya.
Thanks for coming.

violetblues said:

man do I love you...hilarious..
no... I did attempt this first...I tried to classify this area of music using order/family/genus etc....but like I said, it doesn't really hold up very well when you actually try and map it out.

anyway..if Prince was sound was fresh and being heard... I don't see how he could have had no influence on others...

what about the time? did they sound fresh too?

toots said:

Awwwww! Don't go!!!!!

Man, ya'll REALLY do not like me!

Look, someone sent me insults in an org-note. I posted both sides of the brief exchange word for word. So how is someone calling me "faggot" and a "bitch" their "privacy"??? Wouldn't that be my "privacy"? However, if you want to run and get a mod and have them snip that for me, i'll coughapologizecough for it. How's that.

Riverpoet31 said:

It's funny how you say you don't agree with me, but then co-sign like 95% of what i've said already.

Get down, though.....

Splanknasty said:

And thanks for coming in and saying absolutely nothing and then stomping off in a huff.

You're a peach.



[Edited 8/29/08 12:18pm]