purplecam said:

Whoa!!!! Someone's fired up! What happened to "taking your own advice" about this thread? Look. I call em as i see them. Again, some people have come in here with some takes i didn't agree with, and we've just agreed to disagree. Some of you come in here, and stomp your "e-feet" proclaiming that [blank] is "funk because it is", and if i come at you the same way that you came at me then i'm being "unreasonable" and "dismissive". I've debated counterpoints when i've actually seen them, i've amended my positions on a few things (which i don't do very often) and again i've got an inbox of orgnotes from people that think that this particular discussion and ones like them, are LONG OVERDUE here.

So again, i'm not going to lose any sleep over the fact that some of you didn't like the discussion or don't agree with my takes on the subject. Anymore than you should lose sleep over being called a KAK. If you're not one, why should it bother you so damned much? If it doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't apply to you!

wow so many replies. Here's my take on it. Over the last few years P has held back on letting rip on any Funk or rock trax. A case in point being Fury, pleasant listen on CD but scary live!. I'll take the point that on record P's funk is now P-LITE , i think many will agree with me, BUT, live now that's a different ball game. Right now there is noone doing funk live like P. Is there a funkier rythm player, bass player. He not only plays the funk, he looks like funk!.
Now this may cause some raised eye brows. I truly feel that if P stops with the P-Lite funk songs on record, drops the JB Lite horn stabs, the cheesy funky synths and in fact drops Funk all together we'll get the classic CD that we all know he has left in him.
That said over the last 10 years or so there's been some pretty damn solid trax, NOW, 3121, MUSICOLGY, FAMILY NAME, BNO etc.

ButterscotchPimp said:

Well I'm not a KAK and I call stuff as I see it too but even if there are those that are "KAK's", so what? They have a right to be here and to be heard and not to have there points be dismissed which to me is what I've seen on this thread. The thread to me had run its course. I don't dismiss it entirely cause I've posted several times on it but that's just my opinion on the matter. We can agree to disagree.

Oh and for the "follow my own advice" part, well I am "free to change my mind", ya know?

funkyhead said:

I agree with you, live Prince can be hard core funk, although I agree with Butter Pimp on a lot of what he says, except the main part lol, that Prince isn’t Funk or that the funk gods do not smile upon him.

Here’s the thing, he starts off this thread with my ”funk buddies say”…these must be the guys he admires and takes everything they say as gospel, talk about a real KAK! bless his little heart
[Edited 8/28/08 8:39am]

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Wow. Both of ya'll have something to say. Not only is Prince the funkiest rhythm guitar player and bass player live out there playing today (coughbullshitcough), he not only is the only person out there repping the funk, he even LOOKS LIKE THE FUNK!



Again, those in the know are in the know and those who aren't are not.

And, on a side note i just got my first hate orgnote! woo hoo!!!

ButterscotchPimp said:

I don't know all about the insults that are being thrown around...I think this shit has come off the tracks...lol

But Scotch, on the real, u still never answered to the fact Prince had a huge impact on how funk moved forward from 1981 onward...How is it bullshit to note that Prince's production on the first Time record as well as Controversy didn't shake up the funk community?

All I know is from what Bootsy once told me in an interview a while back...He basically said a lot of the bands from his era had to switch it up because of Prince's less is more approach...He admitted that the nastiness in the funk was dying out before Prince (he also shouted out Rick James) started hitting his stride in the early '80s...He then joked that he was glad that Prince at least kept the bass in the mix...lol...

Again, this is a totally different point then someone saying Prince is a funk God...Admitting that the old man had a huge impact and injected some life on the direction of funk is not at all blasphermous....

skywalker said
[b]1. I am overplaying my nerd card here, but this is a bit like saying cops in Gotham City don't take Batman seriously because he's not a "real cop". He dresses up funny and doesn't use a gun so he is not a "tried and true police officer". [b]Batman is above and beyond being a cop, he's on a whole other level. Same thing with his royal badness. [/b]

Prince is above and beyond just being a funk artist. He does not fit nicely into that old school funk box. He also doesn't get the credit that he is due from the old guard of the genre (same with the rock guitar worshipers). Of course "heavy hitters" in the Detroit Funk community don't take Prince seriously. He isn't just all about funk, so they count that against him and speak ill of him. It's seems like you do as well.

2.If you have ever seen Prince live you should know damn well that Prince has above and beyond when it comes to funk chops and musicianship. He can more than hang with people like Larry and George when they "take it to the stage". The thing about, Prince is that he could hang with people like Miles on stage also.

3.Listen to the first two albums by The Time. Understand who is responsible for the music. Then try to convince yourself about "The MYTH of Prince's Funk". Shit, George himself doesn't agree with you. 100's of people here have the interviews to back that up.

Bottom line: Besides your fellow purple heads on this site, I don't see anyone claiming that Prince is the "standard bearer for funk"? I don't think anyone really sees him as just that. That is too one dimensional and too narrow of a definition for Prince. That said, beating you chest about Prince being "unfunky" stinks of musical ignorance.[/b][/quote]

Is it me or does this line sound like something out of Pulp Fiction maybe it was said, when they were talking about what a Big Mac is called in France, "Le Royale with Cheese."

Jules: I am overplaying my nerd card here, but this is a bit like saying cops in Gotham City don't take Batman seriously because he's not a "real cop". He dresses up funny and doesn't use a gun so he is not a "tried and true police officer". Batman is above and beyond being a cop, he's on a whole other level. Same thing with his royal badness

Vincent: Hey i'm not so sure P, is that funky, But i agree with your viewpoint

murph said:

Because i don't agree with your opinion? I don't agree that what Prince did on Controversy or the first Time album had any effect on the funk community whatsoever. Sure by the time Purple Rain had hit, and Prince was probably the biggest pop star on the planet the entire music industry was starting to try and sound like the man in order to sell some records. Following trends is as old as the music industry itself. Maybe if you had some specifics to point to? Because i don't hear it. Someone already tried saying that Prince was the one that introduced synths and drum machines to the funk and i pointed that out as not factual. Point out an instance where the funk "sounds like Prince" and let's talk about it.

ButterscotchPimp said:

ammm yea
is the bottle half full or half empty? go on finish it, lol

ButterscotchPimp said:

Nah...has nothing to do with u not agreeing with me...This is certainly just not my opinion...lol...Throughout my years as a writer and journalist I've had the honor of talking to many of the funk heroes that people on this board speak of as well as black record label heads (the days when there was a black music division) that were in the business during the start of the '80s...And it's been said that funk music was indeed on its deathbed by that time, a victim of commercialized disco (not the underground dopeness) and bland R&B...And whenever I would ask who helped turn it around in terms of black music going into the next stage of funk and R&B in general, one name consistently popped up: Prince


I think I and several other folks have given an abundance of specifics of how Prince's sound (and overall production style) created a new chamber for funk and R&B...

However, I think you are waaaay off base here with your Purple Rain reference...I'm beginning to suspect that you may not have listened to much R&B and funk from 1980 to 1983...Because people that were into black music in that period knows that the first Time album (as well as Controversy) was huge on black radio and in the black music community...The impact was more than just folks copying records to sell more albums, because both of those albums were successful (they both went gold), but not "pop" successful...Prince's funk was for the younger music heads...It was new and fresh...So yes, whenever a new sound comes out, folks follow...

It was more the fact that the concept of the full band (on record) was dying when Prince started to unleash his synth heavy sound...He was the nail in the coffin...It was also the fact that the synthsizer which was becoming more technically superior since the days Bernie used it as a bassline for "Flashlight," was now capable of doing so much more...People copped the sound (Cameo, Bar-Kays, Roger) early on not because it was selling in huge numbers, it was because it was the "new sound"...

With that said, Prince and others utilized the new technology that was in front of them...Drum machines could now be played in the style and real-time mindset of real drums, not as a clicking style that Sly did in the early '70s...

Again, hearing a song like "777 9311" was a mindfuck for radio programmers and the funk community...I mean really, if you can name another funk song that utilized drum machines in that manner (the fast snare and cymbal rhythm), then please do...This was pushing the funk forward...With Prince's production style synths could be the entire band, something that was entirely new...

That's as much as I can say in the matter...This is not mere opinion...It's musical evolution...All this to say that Prince, who was more than a funk master (he genre hopped waaay too much to be pegged), pushed the funk to its next incarnation...And he was indeed funky...
[Edited 8/28/08 12:27pm]

funkyhead said:

Whether or not you think Prince is Funk or not, you have to agree that it is still a flavour in alot of songs...

I would also like to see him drop it. It is obviously something he feels comfortable doing (whether or not you agree about him being a master or doing it in a pure sense). I don't think he should be doing anything safe/comfortable.

The again maybe it's time he cranked up the bass, did some straight up funk album and prooved BP wrong.

murph said:

phwew, another crush develops...

For the benefit of my record collection, would you be able to recommend any funk from the 80-83 period?
[Edited 8/28/08 12:48pm]

murph said:

wow, not much more can be added to that, perfect. very well said.

with that, im out of this thread I cant think of anything else to say.
But It was nice reading about music here for a change by people really passionate about music no matter where you stand on the subject.

somebody orgnote me on how this all ends up.

ButterscotchPimp said:

What's "silly" and "pathetic" is that U feel that because U started the thread U have to have the last word. U're acting like a child jumping up and down stamping your feet.
And please, come up with a better response than the tired, "Stay off the thread..."

This thread hasn't been about funk in about a week. Now it's a pissing contest, and I think U've sprayed every surface at this point. U should be dehydrated...

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

You got that right. I'm just happy to be reading about something other than the color of Prince's eyes.

Some wannabe mods are even trying to stop the thread. I say let it ride.

ButterscotchPimp said:

(laughs)
OK pathetic pimp, I will definitely follow your advice and will never bother discuss anything with you again until you:
- get to really learn about black music history
- get some ears more broadly (perhaps start playing some instrument or something, it might help, who knows). Once you have done that,get back and listen to late 1970-early 1980s funk (I am not talking about mid-1970s here), then listen to prince's early-mid 1980s funkiest numbers (and again, this does not mean Prince is the reatest artist or not even the funkiest artist ever, or similar bullshit, but be honnest for once and give the man the credit and discredit he deserves)
- get a little bit less agressive (go fuck a little bit more for instance, it might also help)
- get a life! (more exciting job? fuck a little bit more perhaps? (again))

DrD said:

Wow...u guys r killing it with the jabs...lol

But on the real, the main problem I have with Butterscotch Pimp is the foundation for his argument in itself was always shaky...I'm willing to say that Prince today gets mired in a supremely traditional funk that he grew up with (but I have a theory behind that which I will share if anyone cares...lol...)...And Butterscotch's points challenging the notion that Prince some how is the dude that is saving funk music TODAY makes for a good debate as well as the notion that he is a "Funk God"...I can dig that...

The mistake that dude made was tying his first post to other funk people who he says he knows call out Prince as a joke when it comes to the funk...Well, what happens when other folks who knows and have access to many of the funk giants that have been name checked throughout this thread contradict such a notion with their own experiences with these funk legends?

The thing is, dude can't stand on his own two feet on this debate without those funk "co-signers" that he speaks of...

I say the proof is in the music...For starters if you don't have respect enough for any artform to at least dissect it with an objective mindset then your argument is moot and has lost all credibility...For Butterscotch any "funk" act or talent doing funk from 1980 to 85 (not named George Clinton or Bootsy) is trash and not real "funk"...Thus, this whole debate for him turns into the definition of funk, which is a silly as debating whether or not Johnny Cash's late '60s albums (influenced by Bob Dylan) was ever real country...

Which got me to thinking, maybe this is how dude should have really started this thread...It would have been a lot more genuine....

murph said:

Here we go again. And i'm going to try and be as patient and diplomatic as i can muster. I ask you for specifics, and you come back and wax poetic about your writing career and the state of r&b and funk music in the early 80's and then imply that maybe i didn't listen to that much music back then????


Now with that being one of the biggest insults you could say to a person like me, i'm going to resist my combative nature and come at you like this.

You think Prince was responsible for the "sparseness" of synth and drums that took over funk and r&b music in the 80's, and i say that it was happening organically on it's own.

I'm 41, playa. So believe me when i tell you i did NOTHING ELSE in the early 80's, but listen to music. And i had the benefit of living in one of the greatest music cities in the history of the world Detroit, Michigan. Now living in an actual music city, we were exposed to urban radio that was still freeform. The major corporations hadn't gotten a hold of the stations yet and there were still dj's that could play what they wanted. So that was why living here, kids in the hood were getting exposed to all kinds of stuff. Kraftwerk, the B-52's, the Rolling Stones, Yaz, etc. In '80 - '81, new wave was everywhere. It was the new disco because at the time "disco was dead" (which i never agreed with, but that's another story entirely. So new wave ushered in a new sound. Synthesizers were bright and bouncy, guitars got bright and choppy, and for the most part actual bass was relegated to one lone genre. Funk. And even there, funk was starting to pay attention to technology and a lot of bass lines were done with synths not actual bass guitars.

Black kids in the city were listening to the Talking Heads and dancing at parties to "Mesopatamia" and weren't giving it a second thought. Everything was changing. Prince was one of MANY who were using this new sound to create a new style of funk and r&b. There were unknown groups like an outfit here in Detroit that got signed to Quincy Jones' Qwest label called Dreamboy that were doing the same thing. They were huge here. Now, a group out of Flint copied Dreamboy's style almost to where the lead singer was doing an impression of the lead singer from Dreamboy. Know who that group was? Ready For The World. NOW! Most people think that RFTW was another "Prince spinoff group". But when they got discovered (by Electrifying Mojo, who i'll speak on in a bit) they were biting Dreamboy.

Again, this was a heady time for urban music. Lines were being blurred all over the place. Around this same time, three inner city kids from Detroit decided to create their own style of music that was basically a derivitive of Chicago House music combined with the electronic sound that was coming alive in Detroit at the time. You guessed it, the birth of Techno. Juan Atkins, Kevin Saunderson and Derrick May. Heady fucking times indeed.

Now, while all of this was going on this local dj in Detroit on an urban station called WGPR by the name of the Electrifying Mojo had made quite a name for himself by not being a traditional urban dj, and playing all genres of music. All the bands i listed thus far and other artists like David Bowie and The Rolling Stones were getting played next to Grace Jones and Chicago House artists like Adonis and Marshall Jefferson. Fucking D Train. Yeah. Carl Carlton. I digress.

Now, as i just said Mojo was making quite the name for himself especially since at the time Detroit was the #8 media market in the country and he was selling some records. He jumped on Prince EARLY. Prince was getting airplay here when he was fucking IGNORED in the rest of the country. The B-52's named their '83 album "Whammy Kiss" after a saying that Mojo would say on the air at the time. And Prince would come to town and listen to what Mojo was spinning. Prince would call into the show! Mojo is the man that put Prince in the map. Most people outside of Detroit don't know that. That was why when the Purple Rain tour hit Detroit, Prince's #1 MARKET AT THE TIME, he sold out SEVEN STRAIGHT SHOWS. Which at the time was unheard of.

Prince didn't influence a FUCKING THING until right around the time Purple Rain hit. Most white people hadn't heard of him until the 1999 album, and blacks who had heard him and were down didn't certainly hear a ton of him on the radio depending on what part of the country you were in. So i maintain Prince couldn't have had this "mainstream" effect on the state of music at the time, because IT WAS ALREADY HAPPENING. Prince got there, saw an opportunity and plugged himself in and got down. And LATER, around Purple Rain or so you had cats trying to "sound like Prince". But don't try to sell me some bullshit like The Dazz Band's "Let It Whip" was them doing a "Prince impersonation" because that's not the case. The change in funk and r&b was already under way.

chocolate1 said:

Well if you're tired of me getting my R. Kelly on, stop giving me a target....

robinesque said:

Exactly. I know it's one of his favorite spices to play with, but he hasn't shown he knows how to make a full meal YET. Feel me?

DrD said:

you trying to get personal? that's so cute!!!!
except.....

- there's very few people on this board that know more about late 70's early 80s funk/r&b than me. the shit that ya'll have come at me with does nothing but prove that. but check out my podcasts if you want hear "my knowledge".

- have one of the hottest women in the world taking care of my shit on the regular

- make more money than you and have a more interesting job/life.


don't get my little internet obsession with playing with people who are less intelligent than i am twisted with being like you and desperate for attention from other desperate folks that want to pretend like knowing a few things about Prince somehow makes you an "expert" on the funk or r&b. 'kay?

(note to whatever mod reads this one, i didn't take it there first)
[Edited 8/28/08 16:36pm]

murph said:

And again, there are people that YOU have mentioned that i've heard otherwise discussed when Prince was talked about. So, the whole "you never know who might know who" scenario, goes BOTH ways. Don't stick ya neck out TOO far now.....

ButterscotchPimp said:

I gave you specifics throughout this thread...In fact, you seem to be the one glossing over those specifics...

ButterscotchPimp said:

Well, coming from Chicago I too lived in the same environment...Of course New Wave was everywhere (in rock and pop music that is...Not R&B)...And all the groups that u named up top were the white acts doing new wave...It was their gift to the party and they made pop music much more exciting for that...But I can't think of any R&B acts that was incorporating that sound into their music before 1980-81...In fact, the first time I heard someone from that base do that was Prince with Dirty Mind...(Oh, and u need to read more carefully....I never said Prince was the first to do new wave...at all...lol...He was certainly the first "R&B" based act to use it, that's for sure...)...

I can't think of any R&B acts that was incorprating that sound into their own genre in 1980...Black (read R&B and funk) music back then was pretty straight forward...Besides Rick James, it was a little predictable...

ButterscotchPimp said:

Great point...But who is to say that that underground act (Dreamboy) wasn't influenced by Prince?...I mean, I don't know about you, but it doesn't take a rocket science to see that RFTW was jacking Prince all the way...Even the sound of their drums (remember Prince distored the Linn to make that "Prince" style drum sound that was prominent on 1999 and Purple Rain) was Prince...

ButterscotchPimp said:

Yep it was...But I'm not talking about house and Techno (and nevermind Chicago house came to prominence by 82-83) I see where you r coming from...But the problem with that is it's all about who puts it together first for the masses to consume...And in terms of the "funk" and R&B" that we are speaking about, Prince had a huge hand in directing a change musically...Again, the technology was there for other acts...the ideas were out in the open on the underground...But Prince unleashed that underground sound and injected it in rock and the popular new wave and came up with something that was, well, "Prince"...

ButterscotchPimp said:

I don't see how any of this has to do with Prince creating a new brand of funk.....As for Grace Jones, she is indeed a true pioneer (in the new wave and gay underground disco scene)...but she really didn't start injecting "funk" until Nightclubbing"...

ButterscotchPimp said:

No shit...lol

ButterscotchPimp said:

We all know that...we read books...We have friends in the D...So whatcha saying? Again…black radio was playing the hell out of “Uptown”…but they killed that first Time album…and that’s the main production that had a huge influence on the black music industry…

ButterscotchPimp said:

Never said we (blacks) didn't listen to a variety of thinbgs...this smoke screen tactic is cool and all, but let's stick to the overall debate...Before that 1981 Time album "funk" acts were not doing the sparse shit with drums and synths in that manner...Brian Eno maybe was in the rock arena...But not Cameo, Gorge Clinton, Bootsy, the Bar-Kays, or future R&B acts like Midnight Star and Ready For The World for that matter...Yes, Prince's sound and production style changed a lot in "BLACK MUSIC"....

Peace...
[Edited 8/28/08 17:44pm]

ButterscotchPimp said:[quote]

murph said:

Here we go again. And i'm going to try and be as patient and diplomatic as i can muster. I ask you for specifics, and you come back and wax poetic about your writing career and the state of r&b and funk music in the early 80's and then imply that maybe i didn't listen to that much music back then????


Now with that being one of the biggest insults you could say to a person like me, i'm going to resist my combative nature and come at you like this.

You think Prince was responsible for the "sparseness" of synth and drums that took over funk and r&b music in the 80's, and i say that it was happening organically on it's own.

I'm 41, playa. So believe me when i tell you i did NOTHING ELSE in the early 80's, but listen to music. And i had the benefit of living in one of the greatest music cities in the history of the world Detroit, Michigan. Now living in an actual music city, we were exposed to urban radio that was still freeform. The major corporations hadn't gotten a hold of the stations yet and there were still dj's that could play what they wanted. So that was why living here, kids in the hood were getting exposed to all kinds of stuff. Kraftwerk, the B-52's, the Rolling Stones, Yaz, etc. In '80 - '81, new wave was everywhere. It was the new disco because at the time "disco was dead" (which i never agreed with, but that's another story entirely. So new wave ushered in a new sound. Synthesizers were bright and bouncy, guitars got bright and choppy, and for the most part actual bass was relegated to one lone genre. Funk. And even there, funk was starting to pay attention to technology and a lot of bass lines were done with synths not actual bass guitars.

Black kids in the city were listening to the Talking Heads and dancing at parties to "Mesopatamia" and weren't giving it a second thought. Everything was changing. Prince was one of MANY who were using this new sound to create a new style of funk and r&b. There were unknown groups like an outfit here in Detroit that got signed to Quincy Jones' Qwest label called Dreamboy that were doing the same thing. They were huge here. Now, a group out of Flint copied Dreamboy's style almost to where the lead singer was doing an impression of the lead singer from Dreamboy. Know who that group was? Ready For The World. NOW! Most people think that RFTW was another "Prince spinoff group". But when they got discovered (by Electrifying Mojo, who i'll speak on in a bit) they were biting Dreamboy.

Again, this was a heady time for urban music. Lines were being blurred all over the place. Around this same time, three inner city kids from Detroit decided to create their own style of music that was basically a derivitive of Chicago House music combined with the electronic sound that was coming alive in Detroit at the time. You guessed it, the birth of Techno. Juan Atkins, Kevin Saunderson and Derrick May. Heady fucking times indeed.

Now, while all of this was going on this local dj in Detroit on an urban station called WGPR by the name of the Electrifying Mojo had made quite a name for himself by not being a traditional urban dj, and playing all genres of music. All the bands i listed thus far and other artists like David Bowie and The Rolling Stones were getting played next to Grace Jones and Chicago House artists like Adonis and Marshall Jefferson. Fucking D Train. Yeah. Carl Carlton. I digress.

Now, as i just said Mojo was making quite the name for himself especially since at the time Detroit was the #8 media market in the country and he was selling some records. He jumped on Prince EARLY. Prince was getting airplay here when he was fucking IGNORED in the rest of the country. The B-52's named their '83 album "Whammy Kiss" after a saying that Mojo would say on the air at the time. And Prince would come to town and listen to what Mojo was spinning. Prince would call into the show! Mojo is the man that put Prince in the map. Most people outside of Detroit don't know that. That was why when the Purple Rain tour hit Detroit, Prince's #1 MARKET AT THE TIME, he sold out SEVEN STRAIGHT SHOWS. Which at the time was unheard of.

Prince didn't influence a FUCKING THING until right around the time Purple Rain hit. Most white people hadn't heard of him until the 1999 album, and blacks who had heard him and were down didn't certainly hear a ton of him on the radio depending on what part of the country you were in. So i maintain Prince couldn't have had this "mainstream" effect on the state of music at the time, because IT WAS ALREADY HAPPENING. Prince got there, saw an opportunity and plugged himself in and got down. And LATER, around Purple Rain or so you had cats trying to "sound like Prince". But don't try to sell me some bullshit like The Dazz Band's "Let It Whip" was them doing a "Prince impersonation" because that's not the case. The change in funk and r&b was already under way.








Your timeline is all off, your history is revisionist and you completely underestimate Prince's influence during 1980-83. There's a reason why Mojo would play entire P album sides during this Prince era. He could tell there was something important brewing. He had the foresight to recognize an innovative force. He did not interview P until 1986. I am also old enough to remember this span of music and black culture. Prince, the Time and the Minneapolis sound were hugely influencial during this period- especially among black audiences. By the time of the 1999 Tour (1982-3) was selling out arenas to a black audience with little promotion. Midnite Starr and Zapp (1983) were name checking Prince. Ready For the World didn't even record until 1983 and didn't get their sound down until a couple years later. Anybody with an ear can hear the Prince influence in Oh Sheila. By the time PR came out (1984), P was already cemented into the consciousness and history of Black music. You should know that once the mainstream adopts one of our artforms there have been years and years of black dues paying.

The rest of your Detroit history lesson is interesting though. But c'mon, I know your trying to express a contrarian view here on this P fansite and with your funk buddies, but deep down and when you are alone in your crib, you get down to the P(rince) funk.

I see Prince & funk as being like The Beatles & rock. Many rock fans would rather listen to AC/DC than the Beatles because it's a safe bet. Or to P-Funk over Prince for guaranteed funk.

Prince can be funky and the Beatles can rock, but they're much more than that, and it hurts their acceptance at the same time, because you never know what category to put them in, and you never know what will come out of the speakers when you put an album on. They're artists more than they're musicians of a certain type.

But while Prince is not purely a "funk artist" I think that of his generation, of his popularity, of his caliber of musicianship, he's about as funky as it gets--when he chooses to be.

How many more pages of "your wrong... Im right,your this and that can we take?

I lost interest about 3 pages back when the mudslinging occured.
[Edited 8/28/08 20:45pm]

BlaqueKnight said:

I agree that use of the synth was in full bloom by 1980. Stevie started using them in 1970- Music of My Mind. The influence of P during the early 80's revolved around the way he used synthesizers. He brought the coldness of them out to the forefront. His synth parts were closely clustered chords that created a unique friction/alienation. A lot of people refer to his early 80's sound as having a sparse demo quality that was drastically different that a lot of the polished black music of the time (Cameo, BarKays). We all recognize the synth horn parts and linn drums. The Minneapolis Sound is easily identifyable. It's the sound that was influential and not the use of synths. I recently saw an old school funk concert in which Klymaxx opened. They definately used the minny sound.

By the time 1999 came out (1982), P was a growing phenom with a large black audience. He wouldn't of been able to release a double album without that creative momentum. No one has mentioned his themes, imagery, lyrics which were strikingly different than anything out at the time.

In 1981, I vividly recall high school girls doodling the lyrics to Do Me Baby. I couldn't even begin to count the by-the-numbers copies of this classic. I remember A group of dudes dabbling with mascara and lace (Remember Dr. Dre- World Class Wreckin Crew). We even had a small gang of guys who called themselves the Rude Boys who wore trench coats and ankle boots (Fill in West Side Story Joke.) Don't you recall seeing the Controversy poster in high school lockers.

I know this has ventured farther away from the Funk argument but I still feel the defination is too narrow.