Experimentation. Back in the day he would shake weird or mind-bogling stuff out of his sleeve record after record. That in combination with that amazing voice, his music hooked me time after time.

Even when his entire records stopped being overall amazing, there's always be a few songs on it to drwa me back in and stay at least interested. Mediocre albums like Batman had Batdance and The Future, Lovesymbol had Sexy MF etc.

To me, the last really challenging record he has made was N.E.W.S., which sported songs that took me places. The last mind-bogling song to me was the title track of One Nite Alone.

I am not saying Prince makes bad records, that is his genius. The albums that do not appeal to me seem to draw in new fans in by the masses. I am aware that, like friends, you cannot take an artists entire ouvre with you into your future. And even though I can hear his latest efforts aren't bad, they just do not tickle my sexy bone, like new records by Grace Jones and the likes of Valgeir Sigurdson and Ellen Allien do.

I am also not saying that I want Prince to go back to, let's say 1983, music-wise. But a man can wish, can't he? Cuz then I wish Prince would just make 8 song long records again and really create them, give them substance, an edge that seems to be missing with him trying to be a mix between James Brown (MACEO!) and Duke Ellington (HORNS!).

If I say I want freaky Prince back, I do not mean the Sexy MF-Prince, but the one that swept me off my feet every time, by incorporating something new into his music, or twisting something old his way so it sounded fresh and sexy.

Hmm... I follow you Ham [su], but I find that at least 3121 have what you're looking for: New and fresh sound, experimental and sexy... But it is getting longer in between those findings, yes

I with you...

I think maybe musically 3121 was better musically than NEWS, but I prefer these because he takes jazz and makes it something crazy... sometimes is isn't that great but I still feel drawn in and more connected to him (that wasn't meant to sound creepy btw)

The sound on east is a trip

Also I'm sort of with you on the horns... sometimes I dig it, othertimes not so much

the saxaphone is a strange instrument.. it can be responsible for the coolest sounds out there, and yet other times it sounds like elevator music... sadly, on some prince tracks I hear elevator music

geo4you said:

To be honest, there's nothing much on that album that really attract me, experimentation-wise. I still think he tried to mould that album in a sort of Purple Rain; mixing rock with funk.

In that respect his last three outing all have that same thing going for them; mixing the rock and R&B forms, but mostly using old fashioned ways to do so. Black Sweat was as much a reworking of the Hot Thing/Housequake kinda song that it sounded tired the second time I played it.

He succeeed somewhat better with the free-style of the 3121 title song, using Erotic City influences, but buffing it up with the NPG trio's heavy thump.

But the thing is that he used a lot of old fashioned styles to make these albums stick together, but he succeeds best if he goes really timeless, like on Somewhere here On Earth or tries something he does not use often, like the contemporary beat of Love, which makes it an immediate stand out cuz it different than anything else on the album.
Then, at least, his compositons work.

But there isn't anything like mind-bogling on there; there is no guitar like on East, no sketching like on One Nite Alone (the song).

And yet, none of these albums are boring, cuz how could a Prince album be boring with that voice?

I agree. 3121 is vastly over-rated. I haven't been mad on his last three records, although I think PE had some strong cuts.

Even when his experiments were a bit dodgy (did he really pull off techno with The Human Body?), it was cool to see him trying to expand his horizons.

He seems very complacent on recent recordings. His music is much more formulaic... I wish he'd discover a whole new genre and try to encorporate it into his sound. When was the last time you heard a Prince record and thought to yourself "I didn't see that coming!"?
[Edited 8/17/08 2:51am]

Have to mainly agree.

So what you're saying is that recently he has just shown good workmanship demonstrating his musical skills but not necessarily making music in the sense of creating as an artist?

Maybe he needs inspiration in his life? And not all this strange relationship going on with fans, media, etc...

geo4you said:

He is too much of an accomplised artist to make bad-sounding albums, even though Mattyjam is right when doubting the sound of The Human Body (no, that certainly is NOT techno, at least it ain't GOOD techno).

I say that ever since he got an own studio, his album production often sounds too slick and slightly over-tinkered with. The projects that speak to me are his angry projects, like The Gold Experience, when he was on a roll and his sound was spot on, mostly. All the versions of Days Of Wild I saw him perform were different.

I am not surprised to find out that the tunes I love so much have been recorded away from Paisley Park, like Solo. It makes me suspect that recording non-stop at Paisley Park makes the sound he creates fold in on itself.

Then again, I might be mistaken; back in the day even tight sounding albums like Parade had a surplus of outtakes that found their way to the adoring fans. Maybe he just feeds us his 'safe' material and he is just vaulting his more experimental work.

I think that Prince's music is a reflection of his life and sure, his life is about performing alot lately, with all his touring and about bible study, which offers us crazy music, but ,to most people, unpenetratable lyrics.

I could do without the jam-like songs like Get On The Boat, but rather have an album that mixes catchy pop-songs and more exciting songs to fill the cracks.

And no, The 1 I Wanna C is not catchy, it just tries to be. And Planet Earth is not epic, it is 3 Chains Of Gold, just somewhat more interesting.

Again, I mean One Nite Alone-epic and Raspberry Beret-catchy. And again, I am not saying he needs to re-visit those sounds, I would just like to hear him try again to get underneath the skin of his audience, while still have that FU-attitude he used to have.

The 1 U Wanna C is catchy as hell to me... If he'd recorded this back in the days of Diamonds & Pearls (when he was still relevant enough to pack a punch on commercial radio) he would've had a huge hit with it.

Don't let the bland fodder and insipid R&B tracks on Planet Earth (Future Baby Mama, Mr Goodnite etc.) distract you from the five or six excellent songs the album does have.

When it comes to a Prince album, these days I'm just grateful if there's a handful I like. There wasn't even that on 3121 or Musicology.

geo4you said:

With you geo

The majority of everything since 1990 sounds over-baked; over-contrived; over-produced; over-done.

I think that "The Love Symbol Album" was the nadir of this.

The individual tracks which I've enjoyed since 1990 have always been the ones with minimal instrumentation and sparse arrangements.

Illusion, Coma, Pimp & Circumstance
Come On
Eye Love U But Eye Don't Trust U Anymore
Somewhere Here On Earth

Etctera.

He's had a tendency to use everything PLUS the kitchen sink on the slightest of songs, since Graffiti Bridge onwards.

Not everything needs a squealing guitar solo, a rapper, a gospel choir, a 48 piece orchestra, a tapdancer...

I wish he'd make an album on a 4-track portastudio, using a C90 cassette tape. Just him, a synth, a bass, a guitar and a drum machine.

WX147 said:

That kinda sounds hot, right there.

No matter what Prince does at this point a portion of the fan base will be dispointed. Either he doesn't sound enough like old-prince on one hand or he is rehashing old Prince on the other.

If he is expermental (see TRC and NEWS) he is bashed by critics and fans for being self-indulgent and creating elevator music.

If he concentrates on craft and constructing songs for the masses he is accused of being bland and safe.

If he raps and does R&B songs the rock fans bitch.

We all need to the face the facts that we have heards almost every possible sound and combo sound from Prince. It can only be so fresh to him and us. At this point it is all gravy.

Shit none of us can agree on anything concerning Prince's output. It seems one persons new classic is anothers garbage.

tricky99 said:

Is why I put the word 'I' in my thread title twice, just to also pinpoint this is a very personal view. If you disagree that's okay.
I just wanted to share why I feel detached form most of Prince's recent output, also including examples of his recent output that I did like, to level it out somewhat and not come across as a total spoiled 80's fan that is on an egocentric trip.

Prince's career is so diverse it cannot help but attract some and alienate others. Like Prince cannot help but do the things he does, I cannot help but being attracted to some work and being repelled by others, it is just the way of things. I just had that fam-thing going on for a very short period of my life, so I never was a fan that doted on everything Prince did.
But, like most of you hot-heads must realise is that certain parts Prince's musical career make you return there. This will certainly be different for the different agegroups in his fanbase; in their 40's, 30's and 20's, even some teens; it all depend to what music you were exposed first and how.

I am 37, 1999 being the first song on Dutch radio much, but I became BIG fan with When Doves Cry and the following album, so going through my teens with his 80's output as the soundtrack to stuff like my first crush, my first kiss, my first bf; it is only natural that his 80;s material holds a special sway over me.

Even though ever since Batman I never liked an album by Prince back to front anymore, as I did with his albums spanning 1982/1988, I was a very attentive fan, always a collector, mainly because of the awesome live performances, the related artists, the non-album material and of course the outtakes; you can never become a completist, as there is always something new.
I mean, you can count on it that just when I am ready to throw in the towel, someone, somewhere comes up with a clear quality version of The Ball or Anna Waiting.

Once you've been infected with the collecting bug, you never totally recover.

HamsterHuey said:

I understand what ur saying and certain ppl are gonna have their favorite albums and not so great albums but remember prince is far from the end of his career and i know he has more great albums that will cater to alot of people still in him

Erika2k8 said:

True! I ain't saying I gave up on him. Just saying I am pining for something.

Yep. I put it a different way on a different thread when i said that i miss that "dangerous" feeling when listening to a Prince record. I seriously miss that feeling. I thought the last time he really stuck his neck out musically was TRC.

Besides the obvious fact that we all have different preferences when it comes to Prince and his music (or any music, for that matter), I kind of understand what HamsterHuey is talking about.

But I actually think it makes perfect sense that Prince's records are less experimental now than they used to be.
For one thing, he really doesn't have to prove anything anymore. He knows what he can do, and he knows that his fans know it too.

Also, he's probably more relaxed and at ease with himself as a human being than he was 20 years ago, which means his music (and lyrics) might no longer have that edge of desperation to it.

From a technical point of view, I imagine that his ear and musical skills have developed over the years, now to a point where he can pretty much "hear" in advance what his ideas are going to sound like; therefore, he might not have the curiousity anymore to actually try them out. He doesn't bother, since he knows anyway.

Another thing is his enormous output over the years. Anyone who's made so much music is bound to repeat himself sooner or later.
Perhaps Prince feels he's done everything he wants to do - and all other things that he's left untouched, he simply doesn't care for.

I think we should also remember that there are very few artists who have had 30-year careers, being experimental and forward-looking all the time. I could think of names like David Bowie or Madonna or Quincy Jones or even Miles Davis, but much of their "progress" (especially in later years) have been due to collaborations and help from other, younger talents - whereas Prince has always prefered to have full artistic control.

Personally, I would love to hear him take chances like he used to, but I certainly understand if he doesn't feel like it.
[Edited 8/17/08 10:57am]

I make a living in the arts, and after doing it for so long, yes i have grown, but i notice i keep using the same "tricks" unconsciously, maybe lazy on my part, and i see my "look" ( I don’t want a "look")
But I look forward to my "mistakes" or cool accidents to get me out of a rut.
I see Prince uses a lot of his same "tricks".... when you are young; you make a lot of cool mistakes, just from not knowing any better. I think that’s the thing when you are young & brash, you just go for it.
[Edited 8/17/08 12:30pm]

Prince formerly known as the artist

geo4you said:

[gasp]

MattyJam said:

Rainbow Children anyone?

even tho we've exhausted this discussion so many times b4, i agree with the idea that he doesnt experiment as much anymore.
i chalk it up to the fact that

1. he really doesnt have to anymore. but does that mean also that Prince has run out of inspiration according to his fans on this discussion? not sure.

and 2. he surrounds himself sometimes with these pop muppets and neo-soul folks who worship the ground he walks on and who make these generic pop records. who the hell is Brianna anyway? back in the 80s he was checking out the Cocteau Twins and Kate Bush. Today, he's working with ppl who would wipe his ass if he asked them to. the only group he's attached himself to who i believe is worthy its own salt is possibly Grupo Fantasma.

wow.. sad thoughts to think that his access to music is limited... you could be right.. poor guy

he needs to find a better disguise than that old man thing he did, and get himself down to little bars and listening to unknowns

HamsterHuey said:

You and the rest of us. He's 50 though - ain't gonna happen.

what i miss are:

sufficient use of melodies
his deep reflection on the joys and blues of relationships (though I accept his life views have changed)




[Edited 8/18/08 5:24am]

I respect the points made on this thread. Hell, I would love to hear more experimentation on Prince's CD's too but I have to wonder, what more experimenting can he do today? What was so great about him in the 80's what that he created a brand new style that when duplicated by others, it never sounds as good as when it was done by the creator, in this case Prince. I just don't know if there is any new sounds for the man to create, and I don't think that's a bad thing. For all we know, something new may come out of Prince in future CD's but in the meantime, I'm enjoying Prince where he is today.

there is now and always will be hundreds of ways to experiment and create new sounds, or new combinations of sounds

Prince has tried alot, but still just the tip of the iceberg.

I would have thought that a true artist (and lets assume this would include prince), would be able to help but explore and experiment. To me it seems a major component of why someone would make music in the first place.... if you're not going through a journey of discovery yourself.. why bother?

(ok.. I know why you'd bother, but it just doesn't seem like it would be as much fun)

robinesque said:

I'm enjoying Prince where he is today too; but what a I miss in him is his happiness the those years ago