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Thread started 05/11/08 8:37pm

Riverpoet31

Which bandmembers have influenced Prince the most?

Personally i think it are the following persons (I know, its LONG, sometimes i am on a roll biggrin ).

Andre Cymone:
The one he was living with in Bernadettes pavement. The one he started his musical career with.
I cannot exactly pin-point the specific influences Andre had. But i can imagine that people living and playing together during their adolescent years, being friends also, are influencing eachother quite a lot.
They probably shared their love for funk and disco-music from the seventies.

Dez Dickerson:
The 'rocker' within the band. Someone who loved the upcoming new-wave and rockbands in the early eighties.
I think that love is showing trough especially on Dirty Mind and Controversy (and in a lesser way on 1999).

Matt Fink:
On his first two albums Prince is using the synths in a quite conventianol way. Alltough he uses them to replace the traditional horn parts in soul and funk, they still sound rather 'tame'.
With Finks 'brutal' synthsolo on Head, and those interlocking synthchords on Party Up (which would became a trademark element of his sound) it seems like Prince is willing to take more risks with his synths.
On Controversy, and especially 1999, synths and drummachines became way more important in his music.
He did replace the typical linn-beats more and more with other type of beats after Around the world in a day (sober, echoed ones on Parade, more dry ones on Sign of the Times, showing a dance influence on Lovesexy and Batman).
Coincidence or not, when Fink left the band, Prince went to form the NPG, focussing more on live-drums with Michael Bland.

Wendy and Lisa:
Alltough some people label their influence as overrated, i personally think the increasing opportunities Prince gave them to work on melodies and arrangements has had a severe influence on how his music sounded in the second half of the eighties.
Especially on Parade, the abandoned Dream Factory album and Sign of the Times, you can hear a real diversification of his music. ATWIAD is a transitional album for me, combining the trademark elements of the Minneapolis sound with new influences of psychedelic pop, world-music and orchestrated ballads (Condition of the Heart).
Parade goes a lot further: almost abandoning those typical Linn-drumpatterns, hopping from The magical mystery tour to carabian steel drums, from Vaudeville to avantgarde, from a classic instrumental to a french chanson, closing the album with a folkballad. Throwing in 4 more direct, funky songs which still have an art-rock edge.
The textures become more subtle, the melodies become more refined and the music becomes less 'one-dimensional' on that album. Something that Prince takes along with him on a large deal of Sign of the Times, combined with more mature, 'realistic' lyrics.
After Wendy and Lisa have left the band i feel he often falls back to easily to a more musically simple, cartoonesque approach (a lot of the Come-album, songs like The Max and Daddy Pop, most of Emancipation, NPS and Rave), while he has shown that he is capable of delivering a lot more depth in the past: musically and lyrically.
On the other hand: material from the nineties like Seven, Dinner with Dolores, Reflection and All the midnights in the world show me he can still come up with intricate arrangements and a certain kind of subtlety. I think that shows he has learned quite a lot from Wendy and Lisa.

Eric Leeds:
His saxophone player since Parade, and his 'partner in crime' on the Madhouse project.
Alltough there were saxophone parts on ATWIAD allready, i think the real influence of jazz and jazz-rock became apparent with Parade, and especially the tour that followed that album. Many songs on that tour were drastically rearranged for the use of horn arrangements.
On Sign of the Times the horns were not so prominent (partially because a lot of the tracks hark back to the solo and demo-approach of Dirty Mind), but The Black Album and especially Lovesexy sound to me like Prince was really trying to incorporate jazz(rock) elements in his music.
On lovesexy Prince flirts with atonal elements, with horn parts playing in other tonesorts then the rest of the music, and every song on that album has (less or more) prominent hornparts on it.
To me Lovesexy sounds as the album that would have been the result of Frank Zappa, George Clinton and The Beatles teaming up together. In a 'technical' sense Prince is making quite a leap when it comes to arranging his material, and im quite sure Eric Leeds has played a role in that.

Michael Bland / Sonny Thompson:
I think with the orginal version of The NPG Prince tried to go 'back' to a more spontaneous, organic 'live' sound of thing.
I remember being suprised by Diamonds and Pearls because of the drumsound. Most songs on that album were 'carried' by real drums. And according to Levi Seacer Jr. most basistracks on The symbol album were recorded live in the studio. According to him the songs you can hear on the album, are often second or third takes.
I think you can hear more clearly what Prince was trying to achieve in that period on 'obligational' albums like Chaos and Disorder and The Vault. Those albums contain some of the most 'traditional' and organic sounding pieces of music Prince has ever released.
When it comes to the Gold Experience: i think that album did suffer a bit from overdubs and extra production. Probably the result of Princes ongoing battle with his record company, which delayed the release of this album and which did attempt Prince to 'produce' the raw material.
In this case i think its more about Prince wanting a more pure, band-orientated (semi-) live sound, and picking the musicians who could help him with that. But on the other hand, the sober, no-nonsense approach of the rythem-tandem Bland / Thompson sure gave him the opportunity to 'refresh' his musical approach.

Kirk Johnson:
I know, there are quite some people here who do not like this guy. But when i am talking about influence it can also mean 'bad influence'. biggrin
Personally i still not totally get it while such a gifted musician like Prince would give his 'raw' material into the hands of fellow which seems to like a plastic, generic sounding, very unimaginative kind of production. But, face it, it did happen.
I am no psychic or shrink, but the feeling Prince gave me during his period with Kirk Johnson was of someone who is out of touch with himself and the rest of the world (the 'slave thing', the selfchosen obscurity on the internet, the cult-like NPG website: in terms of graphics and 'admirers' using princebonics'). It was all kind of creepy and unsettling. It was the period that i did take a break being a Prince-fan.
Coming back to Johnson: Maybe Prince was thinking that with a very polished, generic sound he could become commercially popular again? But why was he hiding himself for the rest of the world, while he was trying to 'score'? It doesnt make sense to me. And i still don't get it. Maybe some autobiography 15 years from now will give me more insight in that period.

John Blackwell:
Prince and Kirk Johnson had spoiled half of the nineties with plastic sounding, badly written and dated sounding dance-funk. And without Kirk (?) he recorded a bunch of 'samey' songs that resulted in the lackluster albums: Chocolate invasion and The Slaughterhouse. Who did care in that period, apart from his hardcore disciples?
I think Prince realised at the start of this century that he was on a dead path: as an artist, but as a person as well. It was the period that he became to see his 'friend' Larry Graham as a mentor about the teachings of the Jehovah witness. It also was the period when he was making a 180-degrade turn when it comes to his sound.
The Rainbow Children shows Prince turn away from the slickly produced, very electronic music from the late nineties, going for a retro, seventies-type of sound. Harking back to the soul and funk, and especially the jazz-rock from that period, replacing the drummachine with a technically very gifted drummer called John Blackwell.
I really think Prince was in awe of Blackwell, he calls him 'the master' in the booklet of the Rainbow Children, and he was the most prominent sounding bandmember on that album, as well as he was on NEWS and the internet-only albums from that period.
The way more organic and retrosound of the music from that period, seems to be built around, or at least heavily influenced by Blackwells abilities to play the drums.
Personally i really don't like most of Princes music from that period: lots of technique, a lack of soul, a lot of showing off, but no honest substance. The lyrics on those album are especially cringeworthy. You can have a masterfull drummer showing off, but when you lose yourself in annoying, toecurling dogma's you still have a long way to go.
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Reply #1 posted 05/11/08 8:44pm

Twiki

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I really think Sheila should be added to this list.
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Reply #2 posted 05/11/08 8:50pm

Riverpoet31

You maybe right about Sheila, i almost forgot about her i must admit.

But when it comes to her, i see her in the first place as a long time 'friend', not necessarily as someone who influenced him musically.

But maybe her influence on a 'personal' level is just as important as the people who influenced him musically. When i see Prince and Sheila together they always remind me of a brother and sister who are very close.
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Reply #3 posted 05/11/08 9:00pm

Twiki

avatar

I think Sheila is underrated as an influence. For whatever reason, a very high percentage of her band members have gone on to be in Prince's band, which isn't exactly an example of Sheila having a direct influence, but still seems worth mentioning. And I don't know how much of this can be directly attributed to Sheila, but Prince's sound (meaning the drumming on his albums and his use of horns) changed around the time she joined up with him. I don't want to overstate her influence, but I do think she deserves a mention.
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Reply #4 posted 05/11/08 9:21pm

Riverpoet31

You have a point there.

Some members from Sheilas band (Eddie M., Levi, Renato) have moved into Princes band.

And personally i think, as a drummer, Sheila fits best with Princes music (listen to her taking off on Anna Stesia on Lovesexy, or see her in the Sign of the Times movie, or, my personal favourite, The Ride from the Vegas DVD).

And she probably brought some latin influence to his music.

But, as i said before, i think its in the first place about them connecting to eachother on a personal level, there seems to be a great deal of trust from both sites, and a kind of platonic understanding.
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Reply #5 posted 05/11/08 9:52pm

ToraToraDreams

avatar

When I saw this topic the first thing that popped into my head was Dez. maybe because I'm on a Dez kick right now, but he really did have a rock influence on the man.
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Reply #6 posted 05/12/08 3:21am

Sander

avatar

Wow, you choose a bad thread title, I didn't expect this. But I was a great read, I practically agree with most of it.

Sheila's influence. Mmh, the same goes for Santana's influence. I can kinda hear it, but I can't name one song that has a real Latin feel to it. I guess Prince likes latin, playing with that Grupo Fantismo (yeah, I can't recall their name), but it's not really in his DNA.

Since you didn't specify 'musical' influence, I'd say Jerome! lol
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Reply #7 posted 05/12/08 3:30am

NouveauDance

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I'd add Levi too smile
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Reply #8 posted 05/12/08 4:20am

Dayclear

Twiki said:

I really think Sheila should be added to this list.

nod
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Reply #9 posted 05/12/08 12:08pm

thebanishedone

avatar

rhonda inlfuanced princes bass play from raw funky to be subtle and jaco like
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Reply #10 posted 05/12/08 12:12pm

Graycap23

Skippy
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Reply #11 posted 05/12/08 2:12pm

jackson35

Riverpoet31 said:

Personally i think it are the following persons (I know, its LONG, sometimes i am on a roll biggrin ).

Andre Cymone:
The one he was living with in Bernadettes pavement. The one he started his musical career with.
I cannot exactly pin-point the specific influences Andre had. But i can imagine that people living and playing together during their adolescent years, being friends also, are influencing eachother quite a lot.
They probably shared their love for funk and disco-music from the seventies.

Dez Dickerson:
The 'rocker' within the band. Someone who loved the upcoming new-wave and rockbands in the early eighties.
I think that love is showing trough especially on Dirty Mind and Controversy (and in a lesser way on 1999).

Matt Fink:
On his first two albums Prince is using the synths in a quite conventianol way. Alltough he uses them to replace the traditional horn parts in soul and funk, they still sound rather 'tame'.
With Finks 'brutal' synthsolo on Head, and those interlocking synthchords on Party Up (which would became a trademark element of his sound) it seems like Prince is willing to take more risks with his synths.
On Controversy, and especially 1999, synths and drummachines became way more important in his music.
He did replace the typical linn-beats more and more with other type of beats after Around the world in a day (sober, echoed ones on Parade, more dry ones on Sign of the Times, showing a dance influence on Lovesexy and Batman).
Coincidence or not, when Fink left the band, Prince went to form the NPG, focussing more on live-drums with Michael Bland.

Wendy and Lisa:
Alltough some people label their influence as overrated, i personally think the increasing opportunities Prince gave them to work on melodies and arrangements has had a severe influence on how his music sounded in the second half of the eighties.
Especially on Parade, the abandoned Dream Factory album and Sign of the Times, you can hear a real diversification of his music. ATWIAD is a transitional album for me, combining the trademark elements of the Minneapolis sound with new influences of psychedelic pop, world-music and orchestrated ballads (Condition of the Heart).
Parade goes a lot further: almost abandoning those typical Linn-drumpatterns, hopping from The magical mystery tour to carabian steel drums, from Vaudeville to avantgarde, from a classic instrumental to a french chanson, closing the album with a folkballad. Throwing in 4 more direct, funky songs which still have an art-rock edge.
The textures become more subtle, the melodies become more refined and the music becomes less 'one-dimensional' on that album. Something that Prince takes along with him on a large deal of Sign of the Times, combined with more mature, 'realistic' lyrics.
After Wendy and Lisa have left the band i feel he often falls back to easily to a more musically simple, cartoonesque approach (a lot of the Come-album, songs like The Max and Daddy Pop, most of Emancipation, NPS and Rave), while he has shown that he is capable of delivering a lot more depth in the past: musically and lyrically.
On the other hand: material from the nineties like Seven, Dinner with Dolores, Reflection and All the midnights in the world show me he can still come up with intricate arrangements and a certain kind of subtlety. I think that shows he has learned quite a lot from Wendy and Lisa.

Eric Leeds:
His saxophone player since Parade, and his 'partner in crime' on the Madhouse project.
Alltough there were saxophone parts on ATWIAD allready, i think the real influence of jazz and jazz-rock became apparent with Parade, and especially the tour that followed that album. Many songs on that tour were drastically rearranged for the use of horn arrangements.
On Sign of the Times the horns were not so prominent (partially because a lot of the tracks hark back to the solo and demo-approach of Dirty Mind), but The Black Album and especially Lovesexy sound to me like Prince was really trying to incorporate jazz(rock) elements in his music.
On lovesexy Prince flirts with atonal elements, with horn parts playing in other tonesorts then the rest of the music, and every song on that album has (less or more) prominent hornparts on it.
To me Lovesexy sounds as the album that would have been the result of Frank Zappa, George Clinton and The Beatles teaming up together. In a 'technical' sense Prince is making quite a leap when it comes to arranging his material, and im quite sure Eric Leeds has played a role in that.

Michael Bland / Sonny Thompson:
I think with the orginal version of The NPG Prince tried to go 'back' to a more spontaneous, organic 'live' sound of thing.
I remember being suprised by Diamonds and Pearls because of the drumsound. Most songs on that album were 'carried' by real drums. And according to Levi Seacer Jr. most basistracks on The symbol album were recorded live in the studio. According to him the songs you can hear on the album, are often second or third takes.
I think you can hear more clearly what Prince was trying to achieve in that period on 'obligational' albums like Chaos and Disorder and The Vault. Those albums contain some of the most 'traditional' and organic sounding pieces of music Prince has ever released.
When it comes to the Gold Experience: i think that album did suffer a bit from overdubs and extra production. Probably the result of Princes ongoing battle with his record company, which delayed the release of this album and which did attempt Prince to 'produce' the raw material.
In this case i think its more about Prince wanting a more pure, band-orientated (semi-) live sound, and picking the musicians who could help him with that. But on the other hand, the sober, no-nonsense approach of the rythem-tandem Bland / Thompson sure gave him the opportunity to 'refresh' his musical approach.

Kirk Johnson:
I know, there are quite some people here who do not like this guy. But when i am talking about influence it can also mean 'bad influence'. biggrin
Personally i still not totally get it while such a gifted musician like Prince would give his 'raw' material into the hands of fellow which seems to like a plastic, generic sounding, very unimaginative kind of production. But, face it, it did happen.
I am no psychic or shrink, but the feeling Prince gave me during his period with Kirk Johnson was of someone who is out of touch with himself and the rest of the world (the 'slave thing', the selfchosen obscurity on the internet, the cult-like NPG website: in terms of graphics and 'admirers' using princebonics'). It was all kind of creepy and unsettling. It was the period that i did take a break being a Prince-fan.
Coming back to Johnson: Maybe Prince was thinking that with a very polished, generic sound he could become commercially popular again? But why was he hiding himself for the rest of the world, while he was trying to 'score'? It doesnt make sense to me. And i still don't get it. Maybe some autobiography 15 years from now will give me more insight in that period.

John Blackwell:
Prince and Kirk Johnson had spoiled half of the nineties with plastic sounding, badly written and dated sounding dance-funk. And without Kirk (?) he recorded a bunch of 'samey' songs that resulted in the lackluster albums: Chocolate invasion and The Slaughterhouse. Who did care in that period, apart from his hardcore disciples?
I think Prince realised at the start of this century that he was on a dead path: as an artist, but as a person as well. It was the period that he became to see his 'friend' Larry Graham as a mentor about the teachings of the Jehovah witness. It also was the period when he was making a 180-degrade turn when it comes to his sound.
The Rainbow Children shows Prince turn away from the slickly produced, very electronic music from the late nineties, going for a retro, seventies-type of sound. Harking back to the soul and funk, and especially the jazz-rock from that period, replacing the drummachine with a technically very gifted drummer called John Blackwell.
I really think Prince was in awe of Blackwell, he calls him 'the master' in the booklet of the Rainbow Children, and he was the most prominent sounding bandmember on that album, as well as he was on NEWS and the internet-only albums from that period.
The way more organic and retrosound of the music from that period, seems to be built around, or at least heavily influenced by Blackwells abilities to play the drums.
Personally i really don't like most of Princes music from that period: lots of technique, a lack of soul, a lot of showing off, but no honest substance. The lyrics on those album are especially cringeworthy. You can have a masterfull drummer showing off, but when you lose yourself in annoying, toecurling dogma's you still have a long way to go.
larry graham is prince,s biggest influence ever.
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Reply #12 posted 05/12/08 3:02pm

Se7en

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Sheila E. influenced him most, IMO.

She seems like the only one who he has ever treated as an equal, probably because she is better at drums/percussion that he is (something not true of any guitar players/keyboardists).

I think Sheila E. brought out the "mature" Prince; his songwriting and spiritual presence really advanced during her tenure. I also think that she is the most successful side project.
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Reply #13 posted 05/12/08 3:40pm

lottielooloo19
68

lol don't 4get the guy tht did all the rapping..diamonds & pearls era & tht larry graham chap...
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