u write nice

superkiss said:

That's kind of you.

There is a reason why SOTT is so adored (no pun intended).

It's funny.

If you played me each individual song from the album a week apart, I would look really confused when you tell me it's his most revered work.

In the context of the whole, though, the songs all compliment each other and amount to no less than musical perfection.

PurpleKnight said:

ur right

It was a kind and fitting good-bye to Susannah.

PurpleKnight said:

Yer sweet.

well written and well reasoned. very good thread, and you are right, it is prince at his most humble, though id have to say this mainly applies to disc 2 (disc 1 never grabs me except for the title and maybe 1 or 2 other tracks)

HamsterHuey said:

Shit! STRANGE RELATIONSHIP, I know. Sorry, I haven't slept much, and I was listening to Slow Love when I typed it.

I'll be crucified for that, and rightly so.

I just want to clarify that I don't in any way dislike Prince's ego-driven songs like Cream or International Lover. That gigantic ego is part of what makes Prince, well, Prince. I just appreciate that SOTT offered us something much different.
[Edited 5/1/08 15:10pm]

Very good observation, Purple Knight!

I kinda agree with you. I always think of 'Sign' as the album that offers the listeners 'a Prince' you can relate too on a personal level.
In the lyrics he sings about (his or others) doubts, obessesions, joys and sadness in a more subtle, and therefore more mature, way then on most of his other albums. He comes over as a human i can relate to, On 'Sign' he is more then 'just':
- a very ambitious sexfreak (Dirty Mind - Purple Rain)
- a naive utopian (ATWIAD)
- a hyperactive 'preacher' (Lovesexy. Graffiti Bridge, TRC)
- a homeboy with a 'twist' / schmaltzy romantic (D&P, Symbol, Emancipation)
- or some elderly, boring musical statesman (Musicology - Planet Earth)

Not too say that the lyrics from those periods were bad, but they often gave me the idea that were very much written to 'fit' with the certain imago he was trying to portray during such an individual period.
Therefore those lyrics from those periodes were often more about what he wanted to be, then what he really was / is, i think.

In retrospect that kind of humbleness (as you name it) and more subtle maturity (as i like to refer to it) was allready popping up on several lyrics from Parade, i think.
But i agree that it comes into 'full effect' on Sign of the Times. I think its no coincidence also that the music on that album is also more subdued and less over the top / 'cartoonesk' then many of his other music.

The depth those more subtle lyrics and the more 'relaxed' delivery lend to the music, (along with the strong songwriting and very diverse styles) give Sign something 'extra' that makes it his real masterpiece IMO.
[Edited 5/1/08 15:17pm]

Riverpoet31 said:

Very good points. That's partly why I was so let down by Lovesexy as a follow up album.

It's not that I don't like it, because I think it's great in its own right, but it was somewhat of a lyrical regression for Prince. It reverted back to naive positivity and thematic simplicity compared to Sign.

Coming off of immensely deep paradoxical lyrics like "Baby, I just can't stand to see you happy. More than that, I hate to see you sad", it was disappointing to hear lyrics like, "Love is God. God is love. Girls and boys love God above."

You're right, there is definitely a subdued feel to many of the SOTT tracks as opposed to the aural cartoons that some of his songs are famous for being. This is especially evident in the more introspective songs like If I Was Your Girlfriend.

[Edited 5/1/08 15:25pm]

It's my favorite album, period (by any artist).

When people ask me which CD of his to get, I always say SOTT. They act confused and shocked that I didn't say Purple Rain.

I love everything about SOTT: the music, the lyrics, the movie, the boots (sorry mods), even the photography and album cover/logo. A masterpiece.

ZsasZ, alltough i agree with you that it applies the most to disk 2 (the examples that Purple Knight mentioned), i think disk 1 cannot be missed.

I see Sign of the Times as an album that deals with the late eighties (the references to drugabuse, aids, space programs, lyrics about people looking for peace of mind and love in a modern, fast changing society) and at the same time it deals with Prince as a person during that specific timeframe.
The 'funny' thing is: the material on the album is assembled from sessions that were meant for several other albums that were never officially released, but somehow Prince did succeed (purposely or not) to deliver an album from that overload of material that one the one hand reflects the chaotic times around that period, and on the other hand deals with his his growth as a person.

Combined with the more humble / subtle lyrics, i think it offers a realistic take on life, that anyone who was growing up in the late eighties can refer to, i think. At least, i can.

When Sign of the Times, the single, was released i was 14 years old, and i remember how impressed i was by the lyrics, because they were right on spot: that was what was happening in 1987, it was ultra-actual. For me that song offers the 'social frame' for the rest of the lyrics, so it cant be missed as an albumtrack, its crucial for the album.

Coming back to side 1 of the album: After Sign, you get two songs (Play in the sunshine, Housequake) that deal with escapism: having fun / dancing the night away, not thinking about the problems mentioned in the title track. That REALLY was what my generation was doing around that time: going to disco's, enjoying the upcoming house movement.
The last song from side 1 (The Ballad of the Dorothy Parker) is for me an example that Prince can be quite convincing when it comes to storytelling lyrics (other examples: Shy, Dinner with Dolores, Circle d'Amour). And when it comes to the subject: i think, its about a restless soul looking for some attention and company in a fast, modern world. But also notice the singer is 'keeping his pants on' (a reference to the danger of getting aids, IMO).

Side 2 of the original Vinyl-album starts with what at first seems 'another' confession from Prince about being a 'sexfreak', but when you listen closer to the lyrics and especially the delivery, you hear a person who is so obsessed with lust, that it has become an overwhelming bsession, an addiction almost. It makes you wonder if the singer is still enjoying it deep inside.
Another song on side 2, Hot thing, shares the same 'sound' and same kind of obsessed behaviour as can be heard on It.
Of course these two songs deal with Princes own sexual obsessions in the first place, but you shouldnt forget people in the late eighties people were complaining about too much 'hedonistic behaviour' and superficial sexuality. In that sense the 'personal' again is mirrored in the 'social' and vice versa.

On side 2 of 'disk 1' of the album these two 'sex tracks' are 'counterbalanced' by two songs that seem to deal with innocence and a more sensual take on life and love.
Musically and lyrically Starfish and Coffee brings up images of the past, childhood memories, a period of innocence. I also see it as a subtle take on the discrimination subject: Cynthia Rose appears like some 'strange creature', maybe she even is a mentally disabled kid, but the curiousity and intrigue Prince and his classmates show for her, gives the song a message in the vein of: don't critisize people on face value, they may appear 'weird', but that unhibittedness probably makes them more 'free' then you are.
Slow love is an ode to romance and sweet love, almost like its portrayed in movies from the fifties. In that sense, it reminds me of the Parade album. It might be a bit cliché lyrically, but the line 'so much better when take it easy, so much better when we take our time' offers a nice counterbalance to the obsession portrayed by It and Hot thing.
The final track of disk 1, Forever in my life, is, in its lyrical 'essence' the logical 'solution' to the songs that came before: In this strange, chaotic times (the title track), you can escape your troubles by dancing the night away (Play in the sunshine, Housequake) or by going for a one night stand, with the possible danger of aids (Ballad of Dorothy Parker), you can loose yourself into sex and lust, with the danger of getting obsessed by it (It, Hot thing). But isn't it ultimately more rewarding to be true to your heart, like Cynthia Rose (Starfish and Coffee) and to take time for sensuality (Slow Love)? Maybe its time to settle down, and to really focus on one person (Forever in my life)?

To conclude, thats the 'story' i get from disk 1 of Sign of the Times. With several crossreferences between the personal and the social (that timeperiod), some outspoken, others more subdued, i think the first disk is as strong as the second one.

Great posts PurpleKnight and Riverpoet31

Very interesting thread.

I guess the only other album that comes close to a similar vibe is Emancipation, with tracks like "Eye Can't Make U Love Me", "In This Bed Eye Scream", "White Mansion", "Curious Child" and "My Computer" - all of which deal with some sort of realisation of personal flaws or lost desires etc.
[Edited 5/1/08 16:38pm]

Interesting, PurpleKnight. I'm not sure if I agree, though--I'd love to see humility there, but I don't in all the places you mention. Specifically, in "Strange Relationship," he seems defiant to me, like he knows he's wrong but he definitely doesn't feel any guilt over it. In the title song, he seems to be judging the flaws of humanity or at least somewhat putting himself above it, pointing out what he finds silly about the situations that other people have created. And in "I Could Never Take the Place of Your Man," I don't think it's humility that makes him declare that he's definitely qualified for a one-night stand but couldn't fill in for the man (which to me it seems as though he's saying it's her problem, not his).

I like the idea that you found a lot of humility in SOTT, though; I remember at the time of this album wishing Prince would show some. Years later, when Diamonds & Pearls came out, I was so excited because I misheard a lyric in "Willing & Able" (I thought he said "I'm feeling kinda stale" instead of "stable"). I thought it was so refreshing to hear him admit he felt stale; it was like a revelation. When I found out I had heard it wrong, I was so disappointed, because I really wanted to hear just a little bit of humility from him; I thought it would show a level of self-awareness that was lacking.

But in reading your original post, you've made me very excited to go back and listen again to SOTT and listen for what you hear, and for that I say thanks.

I really like what u are saying PurpleKnight...However..."For You" is so generous with love...Humble would also suit that record...followed by "Prince"..

Sign 'O' The Times...In my opinion is more revolutionary as far as stamping a foot into a time period and calling it that..a sign...for music, for Prince as an artist with a creative style, and for us as listeners..

I guess u could call it humble...however, I would say it is a certain vibe.

I think i know what you mean, Purple Knight.

I mean, on a 'superficial level', when it comes to the sequencing of the tracks, the sound- and productionwise 'unity', the levels of excitement, energy and joy Purple Rain can be labeled as an almost 'perfect' album.
Not that there is something really wrong with that, but in that sense it reminds me of a big blockbuster movie: youre on the edge of your seat, enjoying yourself, admiring the special effects, but when its over there isn't really any 'food for thought' left, no more edgy parts that make you wonder: what were they trying to say with that storyline or sequence? Not many elements that make you think: what would i have done or what would i do in such a situation?

Sign of the Times, on the other hand, doesnt appear perfect at first. It makes you feel uneasy at some times. It makes you think and wonder. It offers more room to 'participate' and reflect on yourself. And ultimately it makes you realise that in that sense it is a more deep and layered album, and maybe even better then Purple Rain.
To go back to the film-metaphore: Sign of the Times is a cinematographic masterpiece (uneven on a superficial level, confrontining you when it comes to your own thoughts and feelings), while Purple Rain is a highly entertaining 'Pop corn movie'.

Using that metaphore again, i realise that i feel a bit the same about Lovesexy and Parade.
Lovesexy is a highly impressive album when it comes to the arrangements of the song, the way Prince and the band mix funk, soul, pop, rock, dance, hip-hop, worldmusic and jazz into one hyperactive album is genious.
But its also very much 'in your face', a bit too much even IMO. Its like Prince lets himself carry away by the so called spiritual insights he seemingly did get after popping an XTC-pill in a nightclub. The problem is: he tries to shout it out like he has found all the answers after that, both lyrically and musically, that it goes 'over the top'.
The main problem here: I don't believe him. Sure, he sounds like he believes himself. He feels so sorry for sinnin against God, that he now shouts out how much he was wrong, how wrong society is, and that he will obay God from now on.
The issue is: most people don't react like that. I mean, most people who have taken some drug and feel sorry for that don't try to compensate in such a hysterical, cartoonesk way. He falls back into the 'trap' of acting like an 'enigma' instead of expressing like a 'person'. He is offering us 'answers', without selfreflecting first.

Parade resembles Lovesexy in a way that its musically 'all over the place', very eclectic. It jumps from beatlesque pop to chanson, from vaudeville to dry funk, from light-classical music to sly stone-pastiche, closing off with a folky ballad.
Contrary to Lovesexy the songs aren't played in the same band-setting all the time. There are songs recorded with the full revolution, songs in a wendy-lisa-prince setting, songs that mostly consist out of orchestral arrangements by Clare Fisher.
On first listenings this makes Parade sound 'messy' and meandering, not very cohesive. But after years of listening to this album, things fall into place: On Parade, Prince and the Revolution are exploring their creativity, testing themselves as a band, trying out new styles and sounds. Its like Prince and the band said: let just start the tape-recorder and see what comes out.
Its a very open album in that sense, a very creative one also. It shows an artist and band being surprised about what they are capable off, musicians asking 'questions' and finding the 'answers' in the creative process.
That aspect of surprise, pure creativity, not worrying about 'flaws' (combined with the stylistic richness) makes Parade an intuitive masterpiece, that battles with Sign of the Times as a contender for his best album.

Lovesexy on on the other hand, how genious the arrangements might be, offers 'answers on a plate' in the first place. Its all drawn out for us: his mastering off atonal jazz-elements, his use of soundeffects, his answers to spiritual and religious questions. In that sense its almost the follow-up to Purple Rain: a blockbuster with more superficial intelligence thrown into it for good measure (The Matrix?).
But what it lacks is the charming 'flaws' of the Parade album. The sense of wonder and excitement people working on a creative process go through, the depth and subtlety that show when you are not trying to control everything you are bringing into public.

PurpleKnight

you know, that's a very interesting idea and I think you're right. That is part of the reason why I love the album as much as I do.

It's like THE album where Prince defines himself as a person and as an artist. And every song is a good song. I'd recommend it to anyone and in fact, I believe it has the power to convert non-fans in2 people like us

It is a pretty personal album, it seems and a lot was put in2 the vision he was trying to bring across. I mean, he worked on it for a little more than a year, from what I understand.

It probably is where he is at the most humble, though some of his recent work does have some humble moments where he's not just thinking about himself.

he was more submissive at tht time.
songs aside, it's the first time he shared the stage - using the women as focus, at least tht's how it felt & i guess thts what he wanted 2 achieve.
a lot of emphasis on the power of female sexuality...

sheila & cat displayed amazing strength & energy in their performance & sheena easton was transformed from a timid lil thing 2 a maneater...

the music was something special, more advanced than anything going on at the time & it was a reflective time, almost like he wanted 2 back off - he let the girls share his energy - literally

Riverpoet31 said:

Agree.

PurpleKnight said:

All true - more humility would go down very well.

NouveauDance said:

Me too!

A very interesting read that has made me want to listen to the whole album again with these thoughts in mind!

vivid said:

i'm never wrong n always right.

like a black widow spider toys with its mate

until its too late..

its a bad habit people pick up when they spend all their time in the twilight zone.....

superkiss said:

sad isnt it. even out the twilight zone bad habits still emerge.

Uppertwist said:

how would u know? u ever been out of it?

superkiss said:

yes.

Uppertwist said:

no more bad habits then?

superkiss said:

good 4 u.

My favorite P LP. A lot of the songs sound like demos and they contain a lot of warmth. It's also real dry (no echo or delay) and somehow that works.

P was in a real creative zone during this time. S.O.T.T is right up there with Sly's "Riot", The Beatles "White" LP, and Marvin's "Here My Dear". Next to "Dirty Mind", this is his best joint. The real headphone masterpiece.

Uppertwist said:

its a question, not an opportunity for U to one-up.

no more bad habits for U?