I was pondering this the other day.

!. I am interested to know what gets you going? is it the content of the lyrics mostly with cool tunes or do you love the beat, the sound etc and then the lyrics come second?


personally I love the sound of some of his work and then have learnt and come to love the lyrics, others I love the lyrics first and sentiment way above the sound - although I obviously like that to.

Example, old skool LGC, loved the mad sound of that and it makes you dance, before I ever really deciphered the lyrics back in 84 and can agree with the sentiment.

If I was ur girlfriend, love the sentiment and adore the lyrics to this and the tunes lovely as an afterthought. It FITS with the crying sound and feel of the song. I love the idea that a guy can feel this way and put those feelings into words.

If I was the man ... is that the lyrical content or the fragmentation of the sound? Im undecided but am leaning towards the sound there.


Okay so heres the second part of my question:

2. Having thought about the above points and made your choices, do you think that Princes newer music is derided by some because the lyrics do not seem to have the same indepth feeling or integrity about them? Or do you think he has gone so hard for the 'sound' that the lyrics have suffered.


Its a bit chicken and the egg, which came first for Prince - the music or the lyric?


Give me your thoughts, please!

syble said:

i dont know. but when thousands if not millions of people say ur a donkey, its time to see if u have a tail

syble said:

I think you already summed it up for me there!!!


When I first get a new Prince album I skip through the tracks to get a feel of the album, then I listen to the complete album!

I initially have an idea of my favourites by the sound of the tracks! After a few listens, then it's time for the lyric sheet to come out and read through the songs while listening.

This is where it all gets serious because the tracks that I just initially liked the sound of, now have more depth than just a good tune, great hook, or killer guitar solo - and the songs that didn't appeal to me initially through their sound, now grab me for the lyrical content.

Then the listening starts all over again, and is when I start to get a true feel for the album.

Sometimes there are tracks hat I'm not keen on either way until I experience it live! A few tracks have got me hooked that way - or even sometimes when it's released as a single and has a really good video.

Mostly lyrics, but with Prince I cannot deny that his guitar puts chills down my spine everytime!

The emotion from the sound comes first for me...Prince's lyrics naturally intertwine with the song...however, If Adore...was simply spoken or rapped...I don't think that I would give it the credit the song has.

Sometimes I am in the mood to listen to N.E.W.S. because it is an exciting background for concentration.

"The Rainbow Children" not only shows Prince's art as a composer, the story easily carries you on an interesting spiritual journey.

Prince's poetic heart...is enough for me to value him as priceless as a man with a pen only...however, I have been around for 30 years because of how Prince's clouds and Licks mix. Prince on Piano is enough for me to invest in a candleabra, just in case He comes over.

The Tunes: 88%
The Lyrics: 12%

Music first, lyrics second

Lyrics.

The two are inseparable parts of the whole. Being a writer, I probably place a slightly higher value on great lyrics than most people.

But I wouldn't say either is more important - only that they both have to be there for a song to be truly mind-blowing.

GOOD question

I'd say its a 50-50 shot.
Half the time, I enjoy a song for the lyrics (If was ur girlfriend) and also I enjoy a song for the melody (When doves cry).

Certain lyrics can rescue a song and sometimes the music does that job.
But the best songs are a combination of the two.

And some don't have any lyrics at all
Therefore, Alexa de Paris is beautiful on music alone.

Put me in the 50-50 camp. I've had stupid lyrics ruin great tunes and vice-versa. Although not every song needs to be the most amazing thing ever written. I'm not a fan of artists who have to overthink every lyric and can't write a simple pop song (TTD, Sting).

Also, I think a lot of folks overrate the greatness of Prince's older songs vs.some his newer stuff. On lyrics, I think his crap/genius ratio has remained pretty consistent over the years. It's just that , over time, people tend to forget the crap and remember the genius, so opinions get skewed towards the older material.


.
[Edited 5/2/08 10:49am]

purplecam said:

Yep, me too

The Music!

DreamyPopRoyalty said:

Well said, you totally just spoke my mind... Thanks!

if your white-the lyrics

black? the beat!

superkiss said:

Is that what you realy think? can you explain more?

Is it the overall sound then that you dislike or the lyrical content or structure? For me some of his newer music has less integrity. The sounds are more 'churned out' sounding. Having said that when I first got Planet Earth I dismissed most of it except for chelsea which had such a strong dance moving tune for me, it had to be up loud and bangin. Mr Goodnight again was pleasing but the more I listened I despaired of the ill fitting lyrics. I think now that I liked the apparent revisit to his old ways of sexy music, which this song alludes to, however, the line 'rap alotta chatter that really dont matter" (sorry prob not exact!) is so painful I cringe at that line. When will Prince realise he really cannot rap or chat and that it doesnt fit in that song uurrgghh!

When I revisited planet earth itself i realised that all along I should have listened to this in quiet with no distraction and again very loud to fully appreciate this ballad. I actually think this is of purple rain standard even if you dont like the sentiment, but is that because the sentiment of purple rain was ambiguous and people were led to conclusions as to the meaning because of its use within the film? Added to nostalgia, has made it his most popular song?

Perhaps Princes political/religious lyrics are too much for some to stomach perhaps they prefer his ambiguous sexual connotations with less/different amounts of thought behind them?

I dont know but I would appreciate your answers!


I particularly liked cinnamon girl, for me this was a good marriage of well written lyrics and very good popular music that had a strong social and political message that didnt overpower the final piece. You can listen to this track indifferently or muse upon the sentiment - do you agree.

3121, i love! although reasonably new it has a flavour of old Prince and again visually interesting lyrics, for me the same as doves cry - oceans of violets and blues, - allusions to butterflies and feelings with colours etc. I would guess this is an older song reworked for 3121. The idea of champagne in glasses with chocolate handles is a religious idea of hell for some and therefore an interesting concept to me. The idea of the long spoons storY. Does anyone know that tale? (In hell everyone has long spoons and its hell because they feed themselves. In heaven they also have long spoons but are content because they feed each other).


I could go on but I wont as I want to answer a few other posters!!

jonylawson said:

isnt that a closed minded viewpoint?


I personally am of the opinion that Prince has struggled with his black public persona over the years, he has never cowtailled (until more recently) to the stereotype of black music. He didnt sit too well with spike lee when interviewed and wouldnt be drawn on the fact he used a fair share of white women in his videos.

But thats another thread.

I am interested though in the fact that he has always been in record shops under R&B and never pop/disco, which he clearly was at the very beginning. I guess because he is of africanamerican decent he was pigeonholed from the beginning.


Do you honestly think that his music has a beat? as such? doesnt that minify the extent of his compositions? and the complexity?


wheres the beat in christopher Tracy? yet many love it.


Perhaps you were trying to be funny and thats fine, but I think its an extremely oversimplified comment to allude to black and white folks in that way.


Im having trouble though which you class yourself - beat or lyric?

mentalist said:

I spent years just listening to his music and deciphered his lyrics often incorrectly as we have seen here over the new song on leno.

More recently I have reached for the actual lyrics.


I too listen to snippets and then replay the whole. For years I just played boysand girls, kiss off of parade and only more recently appreciated the album as a whole. Im not partial to videos, I was as a kid - but find videos of princes very distracting and usually nothing to do with the song which I find incongruous. like gett off, what a mad video was that? or cream and the whole lead up bit and the train, what was that?



I dont think videos are Princes strong point and im not sure why he still makes half baked ideas. Shoe was very poor in my opinion but then im not hot on the track either. the lyrics are interesting as they appear to give an insight into him but i think that is fashioned as that, just hype, feeding us! The guitar video with the twins and that daringdo leg move was laughable, i hated it from the first moment, plus the song felt crass, however LIVE thats another matter!! Live Prince is another animal, the best kind.


Recent lyrics? not too good at the mo, the songs are more pop, fast turn round with little longevity, the tunes, some good some bad!


ooh!
plus the line - in this digital age why dont you page me - just jarrs as old fashioned -page me?- unless he means as in housequake and PM me of course, but your average joe public wouldnt know that. 'it dont really engage me' then why ask to be paged - ill-conceived lyrics I think.

Genesia said:

I agree, but when you first hear a song do you dismiss it if it has poor lyrics?

I tend to, which is why I cant listen to alot of popular music, it doesnt engage my mind and therefore ruins the tune for me. Like Rhiannas umbrella - oooh what an AWFUL song! some love it I hate its repetition.

Whereas Pink who has well thought out lyrics, I love. Lyrics with substance is what I need and an arse-kickin tune of course!

ElCapitan said:

Do you think the older material is held up on a pedastool because of its ambiguity, sexuality etc within the lyrics? When you say older how far back do you go/end? what do you consider older pre-90s?

I cant choose.... His music evokes feelings and reactions from my body like no other musician I have ever heard. Then his lyrics open my mind to new possibilities and touch my soul in a way that I cant find the words to convey..

For me his music comes first...when I get an album I go
through just for the music the first time around...then
when I play it back it's for the lyrics. So yup, music first.

Now when you get both good music and lyrics in one song,
what more could you possibly ask for...it's the embodiment
of all that is truly amazing.

music first. if the lyrics are good, they're good, but i'm more likely to like a song because it has great music than because it has good lyrics.

It's the total package. THe entire thing has to stand like a house. It may be interesting musically (Rainbow Children) but the immensely stupid lyrics get on my nerves and anger me, so I never listen to it.

jonylawson said:

Well then, I must be black inside.....

syble said:

Sometimes. It's one of the reasons I just cannot stomach Resolution (for example). The very first line made me go and that was all she wrote.

Sad but true.

jonylawson said:

I had no clue I was white.

I thought ALL music had some sort of a beat?
[Edited 5/3/08 18:26pm]

ToraToraDreams said:

of course all music has a beat or rythm. I think jonylawson was implying something else tho. Princes is so diverse I dont see how it can be defined the way jony has.

Okay so my second question was:

which do you guess comes first for Prince? the lyrics or the jam as in when composing do you think he pens a song and then fits a tune or vice-versa or indeed both?