renfield said:

My bad...I was clearly thinking of when P said that When U Were Mine was influnced by Lennon. And Dez has said that he remembered hearing P writing it in a hotel room while they were on tour opening for Rick James. For some reason, I was thinking of Lennon's murder when I was writing that post.

blackguitaristz said:

Maybe Wendy and Lisa put it there ?? Actually, wasn't he writing Around the World in a Day during this time? Or even before, so then he would have been influenced by the Beatles through W&L I thought.

Oh, just realised I've missed out 2 pages of posts - so I'm probably way behind the times - ah well....
[Edited 4/28/08 16:29pm]

Wall said:

How do u know what P never thought or intended or never said? U needing to think Lisa and Wendy are the ones to hip P to The Beatles is your thought. P has said that in an early interview, around the time he was promoting the Dirty Mind album, that When You Were Mine was influenced by Lennon. That is documented as well. The info of the director of Purple Rain stating that the set designer decorated all of the interior has also been documented. If P or the director didn't want to poster in their dressing room, which was designed for the film, then it certainly would have not been there. Who twisted P's arm to put Lennon's face on the Signs album cover? I can careless what u believe; If P was into The Beatles or not. But u come across like you're on some jealous trip.

Jeffiner said:

Maybe.....But since P has said that When You Were Mine was influenced by Lennon, which was written before Lisa had even joined the band, then....let's see, who could have been responsible for that. How about Dez and Andre?....Nah, that obviously won't work. I gotta it...Bobby and Fink and Gayle hipped P to The Beatles. Yeah, that's better.

blackguitaristz said:

Yeah, I even heard he wrote it the night Lennon died.

Nobody would argue that Prince wasn't familiar with their music, it was everywhere, but did he play it in his home, seek it out, listen to it, study it, etc? No. I think it's in the Rolling Stone interview with Wendy and Lisa. I'm sure some other Z-Cult member has the issue in a plastic baggy; maybe they'd be willing to take it out to find the exact statement.

Where is this Lennon quote about When You Were mine? When did he say it? What did he say?

Prince wasn't even familiar with Miles Davis music until Eric Leeds turned him onto it.

Face it, he knew the major pop and soul songs of his era and that's it. His knowledge of essential popular music is and always has been extremely lacking. Case in point: see the never ending Sly Stone medley.

Wall said:

I already said when he mentioned When U Were Mine and Lennon. And I already copped to the misprint on my part to Renfeild. And I already faced it; I freely said that Bobby and Fink and oh yeah, Gayle were the ones to turn P onto The Beatles. Obviously you've been sulking in the corner over the other members of the Z Cult. Seriously, u could have joined the clique a long time ago. Instead of hating in the shadows somewhere. Jealousy MUST hurt. U can't make believe someone like P wasn't hip to Miles. Cuz P was into Return To Forever, a jazz/fusion band. As well as Stanley Clarke's solo joints. He knew who they were but not Miles? Man/woman, whatever u may be, it's apparent that you're a hater of Prince. There are many on this site. Who forced P to go to a Joni concert when he was a kid? Wendy?....whatever.

Wall said:

This still isn't the quote that I remember seeing but I also remember seeing this one. It's mentioned here. Go to Prince Discography at housequake.com and check out the album review of the Dirty Mind album. It mentions P saying that he wrote When U Were Mine while listening to Lennon in a hotel room on tour supporting his second album. I guess they made that up to. Like Kat Williams has said: "You need Haters in your life".

blackguitaristz said:

I doubt he went to a Joni Mitchell concert when he was a kid. Likely all a myth.

In regards to Miles, and I would suggest this plays well into his other 'influences':



Source: http://www.thelastmiles.c...-leeds.php

I find it very telling that the son of a jazz musician had 'little first hand knowledge of jazz' all the way until he was nearing 30 years of age. This also helps to solidify my point that Prince likely was only familiar with those things that were easilya accessible to him as a child and teen -- popular am and fm radio.

blackguitaristz said:[quote]

Wall said:

Oh yeah..I forgot also that not only was it Wendy who slipped Lennon's music through the hotel window while P was writing When U Were Mine (see Prince Discography - Dirty Mind) BUT it was also Wendy who influenced P to mention Lennon during "Annie Christian". Wendy was also the one who paid the printers at WB to print "Joni" on the back of the same album. Yep...

blackguitaristz said:

Do you have my house bugged?

You do come up with the darndest ideas...

blackguitaristz said:[quote]

blackguitaristz said:

I have no problems believing Wendy slipped Prince Lennon's music or that she was the one who got them to print Joni on the album, got Prince to mention him during Annie Christian as that's what I've been driving at -- the man wasn't familiar with Lennon, Beatles until he was turned onto them by band members. And yet someone on this site has tried to state, it was probably you, that he was listening to things like the Stooges, Iggy Pop and Bolan. When the reality is, he needed to be turned onto a band even grandmothers were familiar with. His musical scope is incredibly limited. See my above post on jazz music for further proof.

Wall said:

Oh so Joni herself made that up when she said that she remembers seeing P in the audience of one of her concerts? I see...U want to believe what Eric has said but u don't want to believe what Joni has said? That's convient. Another thing that's convient is how come you're not commenting on the Dirty Mind write up (Prince Discography courtesy of Housequake.com) where it mentions P has stated that he was listening to Lennon while he was writing When U Were Mine?

blackguitaristz said:

Kind of like you didn't comment on Alan Leeds and Miles Davis and Prince's lack of jazz knowledge until he was nearly 30?

Yes, I doubt Joni Mitchell remembers Prince being in the audience. Why on earth would she remember him? Was he the only black kid there? How on earth would she remember him? He wasn't famous and wouldn't be for years. After all the faces she gazed upon over the years, when Prince hit it big years later she said to herself "Oh right, there he is. That's the dude who was in the 8th row in Minneapolis." Give me a break. It's called a showbiz story. Wasn't there more to it, even, such as Prince writing a fan note using his '2' and 'U'? Even though he didn't start using that style of writing until what, his 4th or 5th album, many years later? Oh that's right, because Joni's story is likely the result of good weed and a bottle of bullshit.

So while Prince was writing When You Were Mine he had a Lennon record going in the background? Sure, okay. I can believe it because you said he was given it by Wendy. Was she in the band at that time? Or did you mean Lisa? It doesn't change my statement -- Prince needed to be turned onto even the most popular music as if it were underground recordings by band members and friends because his own musical scope was, quite obviously, horrendously limited.

Wall said:

Man/woman, u are so blinded with jealousy that u can't even see that I was being sarcastic. But because u don't want to see that it WAS printed about P being into Lennon BEFORE Wendy, you've become so desperate that you're reaching for some shit that I was totally being sarcastic at. The simple fact that u would say that u would believe that Wendy slipped it into P's window in 1980 during his second tour, when obviously Wendy didn't even know Prince shows how way out of a hater u are. What you've done is stepped too far and now you've totally have shown yourself as the hater that u are. And PLEASE read between the lines. When I refer to "Hater", I'm not just refering to P's music.

Wall said:

Will somebody tell this cat that I was being sarcastic when I said Wendy gave P a Lennon album? Obviously it wasn't Wendy or Lisa cuz neither of them was in the group. Damn! P has stated that he was listening to Lennon while he was writing When You Were Mine. I've given the source of this statement TWICE already.

blackguitaristz said:

I'm not up to date on when Wendy knew Prince when Prince knew Joni when the window slipped open when the hater came into the room and gave Prince Sgt. Pepper, so yes, I missed out on your finely tuned sarcasm. The egg (man) is all over my face. If you squint at the yolk on my cheek, it looks like the face of John Lennon with the hair of Prince circa '92; do you think this means Prince was listening to Mind Games during the recording of Jughead or just a gag by the sound engineer?

Thanks for the title. I'll call you a "Lover."

blackguitaristz said:

It's THIS post that needs to be read. Again, I say "Damn".

emilio319 said:

That's Lennon ?????

I'm with you on this one blackguitarist...

Wall, you asked blackguitarist a question and he answered you, right?..LOL..Now whether or not it was the answer u were looking for is a totally different matter...Hell I'll be the first to admit that no one truly knows whether or not Prince wrote "When U Were Mind" as a nod to Lennon...But the whole thing about Prince's musical scope being "horrendously limited" is just another example of the bullshit shock posting you have been engaging in...

It doesn't take a rocket science to know that Prince was being influenced by a variety of acts from Joni Mitchell (who cares if she saw the little black kid in the audiance of show????...lol...u can hear Joni's imprint at various points on For You...) to Santana to George Duke to the funk of Mandrell, Mother's Finest and Rufus & Chaka Khan...And while he was a Sly & The Family Stone fan, that influence was largely absent until 1999...

By the releaase of Dirty Mind, Prince's "horrendously limited" musical scope led him to make Dirty Mind, an album that was stylistically different than anything he had done previously (and no, Wendy wasn't part of the scene)...I mean dude was singing the praises of the Cars in interviews back then...

I don't know...I have to believe that you just doing this shit to get under people's skin...LOOL...Because some of the stuff you've been saying is on some other shit beyound level headed criticism...You have to be an alias...Yeah, that has to be it...

Whether or not Prince was up on the Beatles back then doesn't impact Prince's musical worldliness one way or the other...I mean, what are you saying?...A person who grew up on James Brown, Sly, and Stevie has a "horrendously limited" musical scope because the Beatles were absent from his music collection???...Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit homie...And this is coming from a Beatles fan...
[Edited 4/28/08 19:57pm]

murph said:

With him on what? What is his point? That there might be a picture of John Lennon in Purple Rain which ultimately shows what? That Prince heard the song Imagine? Ok. Check.



Then pass over it if it's bullshit. Thanks. My opinion is that Prince had nothing beyond a general understanding of all things Beatles until Wendy and Lisa turned him onto them. I'm basing this off of the fact they said that was the case and that I hear little Beatles influence in his music until, surprise, surprise, Around The World In A Day and Parade. Is there an inherent Beatles influence in his music before then? Sure. It's impossible to escape it as they definied so many parameters of the genre.



Wow. The Cars. The cover band at the local sports bar will be thrilled they're not the only ones who've been moved to tears by "Let's Go."



I've never suggested his lack of Beatles influence in the early part of his career impacted him in a negative light but that, once again, per what I've read and as a result heard, he wasn't obviously into their music as a teen or twenty-something, which doesn't surprise me, because, per the quote I listed above, Prince, the son of a jazz musician, had an extremely limited view of jazz music until he was almost 30. Therefore, it's not surprising or a stretch to think that Prince's musical influences we're rather vanilla, in more ways than one, while he was developing as a musician.

The fact that you asked him where he got the info from when he was obviously being sarcastic...The fact that he told you where he got the info about Prince writing "When You Were Mine" after Lennon's death (Who knows if its true...but black did tell you his source, which I presume wasn't good enough for u...)



Cute...But making corny jokes about the matter doesn't mask your bullshit...lol...Bringing up the Cars has less to do with me making some grand statement and more with just showing that Prince was listening to more than Sly back in the day...The new wave sound on Dirty Mind speaks for itself, whether he was listening to Blondie or The Bugles...At the time, it was cutting edge rock-pop music...Even if wack ass bar bands cover those songs today...





That's not what you said Wall...You basically said Prince wasn't capable of being musically wordly because he had only discovered the likes of the Beatles when Wendy & Lisa showed...As for his limited view that you speak of in jazz, how does that relate to Prince not being musically diverse...Again, this is more about your own biased view on why Prince displays "horrendously limited" musical influences...

Because in Wall's world an African-American kid growing up in the '70s listening to James Brown, Joni Mithcell, Stevie Wonder, Rufus, the Stones and Santana is pretty vanilla...There's a lot to criticize about Prince...but you are pushing the shit into a new artform...lol
[Edited 4/28/08 20:51pm]

blackguitaristz said:

murph said:[quote]

Where did I state he wasn't capable of being 'musically worldly'? I don't ever remember having the conversation with you or anyone else, let alone defining what I think that term means. Have I suggested that I think his exposure to a diverse body of music growing up was limited? Yes.

And it wasn't my speaking of his limited view on jazz, it was from the mouth of Alan Leeds.

Wall said:[quote]

murph said:

Come on Wall...You and I know what your whole "horrendously limited" musical scope comment was all about...Beyond the jazz quote from Leeds, who I respect (As someone noted, Prince, like most young aspiring R&B/funk-based musicians in the '70s was into a lot of jazz fusion...I mean dude was a Patrice Rushen fanatic before she went commercial...Aint nothing vanilla about those albums)there is no bases for your argument...

It's fine for you to believe Leeds (who again, was speaking from the heart, but really its pretty hard to equate Prince not being up on Miles with him only listening to AM and FM radio, which is moot because FM stations played everything from underground rock to hardcore funk...), but you are quick to dismiss a quote from Joni Mitchell as being music industry folklore just to fit your own puzzling argument...Why is that? U actually think Mitchell was in the room full of Warner Bros. star makers when they were getting their stories straight about all things Prince?

Just because Prince wasn't into the Stooges, Television, and Roxy Music as much as he was into James, Stevie, Weather Report, or P Funk doesn't mean that dude didn't have a musically diverse resource to draw from...

Again spirited critisicm and debate are two things that we need more of on this site...But I think we can all do without questionable shock posts...

murph said:

Apparently it meant Prince's lack of Beatles influence in the early part of his career equals a lack of worldly musical diversity. That's not what I would have suggested it meant, but you were kind enough to define it for me.



I'd say the Leeds story sounds much more plausible than Joni Mitchell recognizing a young Prince at one of her concerts, yes.




You've listed a good many bands that if you were alive and a musician in the 70's to not be familiar with woudl equate, in my singular opinion, a limited musical scope. Apparently you disagree but thanks for listing the bands all the same.



Oh please. I'm posting my opinion, either reply or move along.
[Edited 4/28/08 23:11pm]

emilio319 said:

Yeah, good that someone else remembers P saying that. I KNOW I was the only one who has read that. To answer your question emilio, Nah...I don't know of a Lennon song that sounds anything like WUYM. I was only commenting on what P had said. I don't know why P felt compelled to say that if it wasn't true. Especially as early in his career as it was. To say that he wasn't into The Beatles or Lennon untill Wendy came alomg is insulting to Prince. I know for a FACT that P was heavy into the Stones because Cymone told me so. He said growing up with P, P idolized Jagger. Plus, AGAIN on the Dirty Mind album, the cut Uptown, musically, is a straight bite off of the Stones "Miss You". Many people on here already knows that, so that's no secret among a lot of P fans. So P was into The Stones but not The Beatles? That of course is untill Wendy exposed him to them? Yeah, who exposed P to The Stones?

blackguitaristz said:

Again, being sarcastic. It's a commonly known quote. That's why it's over on Housequake.com under the Dirty Mind review.

I've already shown proof of where it was mentioned that P said what I said he had said so...I'm not into justifying anything to folks who obviously has a problem with P having "certain" influences. None of this is actually that deep.

blackguitaristz said:

Where is it? You mean the mask-like thingy on the right of the drum riser?