purplecam said:

I'm showing my ass simply because I choose to think for myself?



I'm not doing a damned thing to convince you to go along with my way of thinking. It's just that my way of thinking makes you uncomfortable, like I said before. I haven't said anything remotely hostile to try to get you to change your mind. That's on YOU.

Jezebel said:[quote]

purplecam said:

You know what, this is going nowhere fast. We can agree to disagree, right. When it's all said and done, it's not all that serious. I would hope you agree with this.

All this psychobabble and grammar critiquing and not one of you has replied to my post about the free song download on NIN.com.

o.k., here's the deal, nip onto the net and watch that pathetic 'new' song performance and then tell me that BVH doesn't have a valid arguement. Seriously I thought the retro / P lite thing had been done but this just shows that P has NOT lost his genius but that he really doesn't know or if just plain afraid to use it to full effect anymore. It is indeed a crying shame, but I hope that anything new proves me wrong and there is a When doves cry, SOTT, LRC etc on there.

JimRockford said:

I have a question: Would you care to do the same comparison for 'The great songs from the 80's'?

Thought not.

Seriously though, it is a shame that what started off as an interesting discussion has once again degenerated into a fan/ex-fan bashing session.

Can't someone set up a BPFS therapy group or something? I'm only an occasional visitor to this site, and every time I come I am wierded out by all the bitter and twisted ex-fams who appear to do nothing but troll this site and pick fights. These people are a lot more disturbing than the crazy fams, IMO. Crazy fans are someting you expect on any fansite. Trolls are not.

Jezebel said:

since i visited the other day, i had hoped youd all moved on - but i guess not.

its funny to me how some of you insist those of us like purplecam and myself offer up a perfectly intelligent reponse saying they can see princes flaws etc yet still appreciate his music - not all, as everyone has different tatse, but most - and yet all you do is harp on saying we 'sop everything up with a biscuit'

are you not even reading the replies? are you not an english speaker and therefore missinterpreting what has been said?


if not then you are an idiot and should stop making negative comments to other fans

even your signoff has some shit about 'fans' as i said before why do you negative prince-haters even bother to come here to the org

oh i know ----

youve got nothing else in your life other than jacking threads and making derogatory remarks and enjoying watching the fall out.---makes sense now!


now we got you pegged id suggest any other sane peeps left in here abandon this thread entirely as its just encouraging the haters!!!!


oh yeah Jezebel - you dont make me fel uncomfortable - you havent offered up any sensible argument in favour of your ideas.

name the music you dont like, discuss it like an adult and explain your reasons without any negative hating towards fellow orgers.

oh and then offer up similar artists and suggest how you would like Prince to perform in comparison to them. Prince has been making music probably longer than youve lived so when youve lived that long and have that experience under your belt maybe then you will be qualified to judge him.

When doves cry - that was an eon ago, maybe its time you moved on and really listened to the new music you may surprise yourself.




..... I'm waiting ..... ooohhh still thinking up a SIMILAR artist? ..... yeah thought not!!



PS VIEWASKEW YOU GOTTA BAD ATTITUDE!!!!

I posted that laura may be dyslexic or non english and yet you still make nasty posts that are personal as i said before who gives a flying F@@K who can spell & who cant. and if that means so much to yo i suggest you go join your school/uni debating team and argue for the sake of it with them!!! ps they dont need to write as its all in the head and mouth! so you wont be able to admonish them and oh HONEY, tis a better name than i should call you! how about pompous arse?


oh and im not new! as you put it!!! ur an eejit - persona enuff for you?

I've held my tongue long enough!!!!

I've been a fan of NIN and Trent Reznors work, who he has helped and produced, and even on to video game and film soundtracks etc since Pretty Hate Machine!!!

Please, show me? What did he invent? What sound did he create? What diversity did you hear in his music, his lyrics, his attitude?????

Hmmmmm?????

When Prince relased "For You" in the 70's did he stick to one formula of sound that was evident of the era? NO! The contrast between the title track For You, to Soft and Wet and then I'm Yours!!!!!is instantly evident that Prince was offering more than the norm!!!!

Only a year later did another album emerge - marketed as the new Black pop RnB sensation - to have tracks like Why u wanna treat me so bad and BAMBI on them!!!!

A year later we get Dirty MInds!!!! HELLO!!!!! A total reinvention in sound, image, attitude, even who does he now market too? where is this going?

The next year, we get Controversy! An most eclectic mix of POP! ROCK! FUNK! SYNTH! NEW WAVE! POWER BALLAD! and POLITICAL SMUT! you will ever find on an 8 track album!!!!!

The next year - an even more amazing and so complete masterpiece of an extended double album - that not only defined Prince but also (dare I say it?) revolutionised the way 80's music was going to progress!

Then a year out to do a movie which we all know about and then blah, blah, blah.....etc....etc....etc.....


Please tell me you get my point and where I'm going with this?????



Prince is a Pioneer - a couple of definitions of this are.....

one who is first or among the earliest in any field of inquiry, enterprise, or progress:
to be the first to open or prepare.
to take part in the beginnings of; initiate:
to lead the way for
being the earliest, original, first of a particular kind






Trent is Not!!!!!

He is BLOODY GOOD at what he does, but he only knows what he can do - and he stays within those boundries!!!! Security!!!!!


Everything else he does - like good ideas etc... - were always someones else ideas first - that he has let his GEEK INSIDE take over - to manipulate and mould into his own and make them look sooooo much better, and aaallll his!!!!!



THE END!!!!!


The proplem here is not that people on here are blind to Princes faults or weeknesses, or whatever half arsed excuse you wanna use!!!!!



The issue here is that [Snip - luv4u] has got so much of an issue with Prince that he just cannot walk away from - that as a result - to make his puny and crappy little bruised ego (or whatever is psychologically wrong) make him feel a little bit better - he has gone out of his way to find the best next person/musician alive on this planet at the moment that may have some similarities with Prince, and his musical ideals/expliots/online shit/blah blah whatever that he is using Trent Reznor as some idealistic comparison of musical talent, contribution, and respect!!!!!




SO LAME!!!!!


Like I said - Ive been a fan of NIN from the very beginning - and I'm still a huge fan now - Year Zero is still one of my most played this year on my mp3 player!!!!!


But now seriously!!!!! SEEERRIOOOUUUUUSSSLLLLYYYYY!!!!!


And feel free to quote me on this -----


TRENT IS NO PRINCE!!!!!


And, through all the years that I've been a fan of NIN and Trent, I have no doubt that TRENT with have no issue with admitting either!!!!!


Trent hasn't Pioneered or Revolutionised ANYTHING!!!!!


What he has done - is made a whole lot of shit better - and also made all the shit make sense.

I love him, and I'm glad he's out of his (2nd!!!!) downward spiral!!!!!



Leave the Prince comparisons out though - cause they are more further apart than what people on here percieve them to be....

superkiss said:

can any1 say Turn Me Loose.

BartVanHemelen said:

Imagine this: you're a Prince fan. You've just bought a drm-protected wma file via some shady company that handles Prince's online busines this month (yeah, I know, impossible because the guy who some of you think invented the internet has ceased his online presence six months or so ago -- I guess he's being a pioneer again). You listen to the song and you have an idea for a very funny video to go with it. You make it and post it on YouTube. What happens next? Oh yeah, lawyers and takedowns and threats.

Trent? He gives away his new single in unprotected mp3 format via his website -- oh, and he provides radio station with unique download links so they can redirect their listeners to a download site that features their logo. THAT's smart PR. He also allows fans to download the individual wav files of each instrument so you can make your own remix.

There's a bunch of fans who've been posting parodies of NIN stuff online, known as Meathead. They hear the single and come up with their own funny video: http://www.youtube.com/wa...1ZMKfFHU3U . So what does Trent do? He posts an update to http://NIN.com/ , embeds the video (!) and adds this as an introduction:

Also, FYI, Trent also visited the Echoing The Sound forums to look at the fan reactions to "Discipline" and posted some additional info about the track.

Prince meanwhile goes on Leno and performs a lame skit and a lame James Brown-lite pastiche funk "song". Oh, and then afterwards he plays "Guitar" for a handful of fans wo actuyally only go nuts when he plays "1999", a TWENTY FIVE YEAR OLD SONG. Which he retired a decade ago. Gosh, how innovative.

Jestyr said:

MP3s weren't available in 1998? 90% of what Trent is doing now could have been done back then. Hell, Prince fans WERE doing it back then. (Prince fans also switched to lossless back in 2000 or so when broadband became available.)

It's funny how Prince fans are always so busy defending their hero, completely ignoring facts.

Anxiety said:

Bullshit. Prince NEVER was innovative when it came to online music. And whatever little credit that he had, he lost it by suing fans. Prince NEVER advanced online, instead he's one of the guys doing the harm.

Just like he NEVER gave a shit about artists' rights.

renfield said:

Completely irrelevant.

renfield said:

LIE. CB was NOT exclusive to the internet, in fact it WASN'T EVEN AVAILABLE ONLINE AT FIRST. It was only after months of criticism that the clueless fuckwits who ran Prince's site back then posted an UNSECURED online order form, until then you had to CALL A 1-800 PHONE NUMBER.

renfield said:

Lie.

renfield said:

You might wanna investigate NIN's latest releases. FYI: Ghosts I-IV was released mere months ago, and now he's already released a new single that's likely the first track off a new album or EP coming in less than two weeks. Oh, and Trent is touring this Summer and actually playing his new music.

BartVanHemelen said:

Ummm...as if you're so innovative posting the same old crap as you did 10 years ago on amp. Still singing the same old song, aren't ya, you old curmudgeon??

When the fuck are you gonna get it thru that thick skull of yours that Prince will do what he wants, when he wants, no matter what BVH says? Of course, Prince will never have the career that your beloved Basement Jaxx does though, eh?

I love some of NIN's music, but a lot of the stuff is just noise...so big whoop, Trent is letting folks make different noise, using his. WOOOHOOOO!! That's so fucking awesome, I can wait to hear it!!

funksterr said:

What a pathetic defense.

FYI: Trent sold all 2500 copies of the limited edition deluxe version of his new album in ONE DAY back in March. @ $300 per copy.

funksterr said:

You don't need to be part of the Trent fanclub to get all the goodies.

Riverpoet31 said:

Number of Reznor songs covered by Johnny Cash: 1. It's called "Hurt", and is considered a highlight of his already astonishing career. The video makes grown men cry.

Remind me: how many Prince songs has Cash covered?

violetblues said:

Trent isn't giving it away. That's Prince. Prince completely devaluated his PE album by selling it for a bunch of money to a rightwing, racist newspaper.

Trent on the other hand is allowing people to interact with his music, and even included one fan-made remix on his recent Year Zero remix album. And he's doing a YouTube film festival where people are encouraged to post videos that use the music from Ghosts I-IV as inspiration for movies. He's also releasing his music under a Creative Commons license.

Prince meanwhile withholds royalty payments top people who co-wrote his music. Just ask Levi, who nearly bankrupted himself when he sued Prince for back payments.

BartVanHemelen said:

HAHAHAHA damn, you just pull shit out of your ass constantly don't you?? Who gives a shit who Cash covered?!?!

Why don't you say who sampled who between Prince and Trent??

lezama said:

For crying out loud. Reznor also plays guitar, piano,... And yeah, he's a skilled computer user, but he makes HIS OWN SOUNDS. There are Prince songs that are barely more than a PRESET on a keyboard.

FYI: I saw Reznor perform "Me I'm Not" live, which is basically Reznor and two other guys each standing behind a keyboard (and Reznor also has a Mac). But it was 100% live and performed on the spot -- oh, and they also had a kick-ass LED show.

Ever seen Roni Size's Reprazent live? Four guys behind keyboards and laptops, plus a standup bass and a drum player (and a bunch of guests vocalists and MCs). Yet they're fantastic. Underworld? Two guys behind a mixing desk and one lead singer -- fantastic (back when they were making great music). Orbital? Two geeky guys behind a bunch of keyboards and samplers and a mixing desk -- but awesome, life-changing concerts.

So what if Prince's band these days consists of a bunch of "real" musicians? They're still making bland jazzrockfunk. I prefer the guy who made Lady Cab Driver. Or the guy who did People Without. Or The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker.

syble said:

No, he didn't.

syble said:

Bullshit. Plenty of artists had been doing online music before Prince. And way better. Some of us remember the original NPGMC, which ILLEGALLY used a beta version of QuickTime (which then expired the week the project went live). Only after MONTHS of complaints that crappy software was ditched and we got unprotected MP3s and MOV files.

Then later on all that changed to DRM-protected WMA and WMV which are now useless because the licenses can't be renewed.

syble said:

If you don't know what you're talking about, shut up, OK? Prince's sites have been run by FANS, incompetent ones. And when it involved an outside firm, Prince usually didn't need to pay a single bill.

syble said:

Dude, my job is making internet applications. I know Prince's sites are shit because I know the technology. XML WCF UML WSE C# .NET SQL SCM -- that might be gibberish to you but these are technologies I use every day.

syble said:

No he didn't.

syble said:

Go buy the One Nite Alone piano album. Go buy Crystal Ball. Go buy Slaughterhouse. Go buy C-NOTE.

syble said:

How old are you? Seriously, want me to list all of the Prince music that is HARD to get? Let's make it easy: go fetch me a pristine, affordable copy of the ORIGINAL "Gett Off", i.e. the version that was sent to DJs and clubs. Harder? Go fetch me an affordable, pristine copy of "51 Hours".

Paris9748430 said:

Quotes?

Paris9748430 said:

Sheesh, did I ever say that? STOP MAKING UP CRAP.

Anxiety said:

Oh for crying out loud. Again people are making up the music in their minds...

Anxiety said:

No, CERTAINLY. It took Prince MONTHS and lots of bitching from the fans before he dropped the first NPGMC, which was something I'd already doomed a failure BEFORE it went live. I predicted all of the crap that was wrong with it. And then Prince's minions added their own spectacular incompetence on top of it. Selling bootleg copies of videos? Having to recode files again and again? Releasing an MP3 that was encoded FROM A TAPE while the song was available ON CD? Why the hell are you giving them a free pass on that?

FACT: most of the months the NPGMC FAILED to deliver the contractually promised minimum amount of music and videos in their first year.

When Prince went the DRM-protected WMA/WMV route, again this wasn't some fluke, but a dumb-ass decision because everyone with half a brain knew that this was gonna cause shit later on because those DRM'ed files need a SPECIFIC LICENSE SERVER -- and Prince was already known to switch URLs at the drop of a hat while failing to pay the measily sums to retain the old ones.

Stop pretending Prince made some minor mistakes -- in fact he ignored all warnings and suggestions and simply went with whatever hairbrained scheme Samnation et al came up with.

I've posted suggestions on how Prince could run a successful online service numerous times, always pointing to OTHER ARTISTS. Remember those evil Metallica guys? Guess what, they've been selling their concerts online for YEARS, in MP3 and FLAC format. Other artists are financing entire albums from fan donations.

Prince never was a pioneer. If he was, you could easily point to specific examples. But you can't while I can point again and again to other artists who did it earlier and/or better.

The fact is that 10+ years after becoming "free", Prince hasn't come up with a single idea that presents an alternative. All he's done is looked for the next "big money" deal that came his way. Which means that we now have a single where a Prince song is coupled with a lame hip-hop song because Prince decided it was good business to license his single to a third-rate label.

No, giving away your latest record for free with a racist newspaper that has paid you a million or so isn't a "new and exiting business model", it's a pathetic publicity stunt by a washed-up artist who realises that this is the best/only way to moneytize his latest mediocre release.

RodeoSchro said:

NIN performed at the MTV VMAs just before The Fragile came out. They were supposed to play at the MTV Movie Awards back when Hand That Feeds was out, but MTV refused to allow them to play in front of a Bush picture. I guess that's yet another case of the left-wing media sticking it to -- oh wait, maybe not.

But yeah, NIN don't do TV much.

laurarichardson said:

So few fans that the release of Ghosts is one of Digg's top entertainment stories ever.
So few fans Trent had to add even more servers than they'd already had set up because the Ghosts release "broke the interwebs".
So few fans that all 2500 copies of the deluxe $300 (shipping and handling not included) version of Ghosts were sold out in a day.

syble said:

It's "this", not "tis".

Oh, and it's "ONE", not "won".

Jezebel said:

No, I'm not. I'm here to occasionally post my opinion. Which always seems to deeply upset people. Mostly because they know I'm right. But that's just a nice side-effect.

purplecam said:

No, I don't. I point to the FACTS that DISPROVE the invalid opinions. I don't care if you think like me, all I do is point out that your opinion isn't based on facts.

purplecam said:

Yet post after post in this thread continues to spew nonsense about Prince. So why are you upset when I remind people of the numerous times that Prince wasn't doing what you pretend he was doing?

purplecam said:

Start by posting that same comment to the people in this thread who've called me a rat, people who've referred to people like me as "haters", etc. Want a grown-up conversation? Then start behaving like a grown-up and aim your wrath at those who don't contribute anythign to this thread except insults and unfounded baloney. Want to prove me wrong? PROVE me wrong. Bullshit like "Prince was a pioneer" is empty talk, prove it with FACTS. But you can't, because you know I can easily prove to you that other artists did do what Prince did earlier and often better.

cathys said:

Oh look, yet another fam complaining about the tone of this thread while at the same time throwing a cheap insult in the way of the posters whose opinion he disagrees with.

Real grown up.

Now watch Anxiety criticizing me for pointing out an insulting post. Funny how he reacted to Jezebel, yet kept completely silent towards the two posters who called me a name.

mentalist said:

Well, he took a fringe genre (industrial music) and crossed it with a pop attitude and made it hugely popular. Without actually selling out -- hence the fact that people like Coil and Adrian Belew etc are happy to work with him.

BTW if you need multiple exclamation marks to make your point, it's a pretty weak point to begin with.

mentalist said:

Controversy = Dirty Mind recorded in a proper studio but with less good songs.

Let's see, what's next? Oh yeah, you throw a lame insult my way. Real grown up.

And no, I don't have an issue with Prince. But apparently it is verboten to point out simple truths, like "other artists are doing what Prince always promised but never delivered".

mentalist said:

There's a lot of industrial artists who'll disagree. You don't think they like it that their fringe music is now a mainstream genre? You don't think they like that they're selling more records now?

Why can't Prince fans argue the facts? Why are they so insistent on bailing out their musical hero? Why is their only answer to criticism either ridiculous hyperbole that pretends Prince changed music (he really didn't, not in the least because his music is largely copied from someone else's truely original music -- like Sly Stone) or that he is an internet pioneer (he isn't, if he was you could come up with actual examples) -- or ridiculous relativism ("it's Prince's thing, he can do whatever he wants").

Particularly that last attitude is incomprehensible, since it basically means there's no point in having an opinion, let alone voicing it -- yet somehow my posts upsets them enough to post that nonsense over and over again -- usually followed by an attempt to argue that I'm wrong, mostly based on incorrect assumptions.

Screw Trent! This is Prince.org you haters!! Thou shall not diss the legendary Prince. There is gonna be a new album soon ( I hope) so let the hype begin. From this point on we shall ban together and take out the haters!!!

Prince for President

BartVanHemelen said:

I shouldn't encourage you by responding, but being called a 'fam' is just too much!! I'm VERY far from being a ‘fam’ - I'm a big fan of Prince's 80's work, but I think most of what he’s done since SOTT doesn’t live up to his promise. Clearly your definition of a ‘fam’ is ‘anyone who likes any of Prince’s music’ - I suppose that’s how you justify flinging the epithet at anyone who dares to disagree with you.

On the other hand, in what way is my calling you and your like 'ex-fans' a cheap insult? It’s not insulting, and it’s obviously true.

And I never even said I disagreed with the opinions posted - it was just the tone of the discussion I was objecting to. As far as your posts are concerned, I think you make many valid points. It's just the intemperate way in which you make them, and the obsessive tone of your comments, that disturbs me.

BTW, I’m a she, not a he, as you might have worked out from my name.