For awhile this has been bothering me, and I am sure that I am not the only one who feels this way. So I thought that I would share my problems with those who appreciate "ART", and of course I am reffering to those of you who are on the org, or anyone who appreciates art. There are a lot of so-called artist, and I will name some, Micheal and Janet Jackson, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Justin Timberlake, Ashanti, B2K, Ja Rule etc. These are the self proclaimed artist who claim to be artist but are not. Britney Spears for example who up until her last album has never contributed a lyric, I know this because my cousin who doesn't know anything about good music has her cds. On her MTV diary before her last album she claimed that a lot of the album was personal, and that she had wrote every song except for 2. Come to find out she co wrote 5 songs on her album with about 3 or 4 other writers for each song. Now does this make her an artist? Well to me the answer is NO. She is just a puppet if you ask me with only one talent, and that is her looks. Same with Christina A', I have yet to see her credits for the new album but on the last album the credits she had was vocals, and performed by. Michael and Janet are ledgends in their own right, a couple of the most influential artist of our time, but they have barely lifted a finger themselves to write. Master minds behind Janet, Jimmy and Terry, Michael, Quincy J and and 100s of other songwriters and producers (check out the invincible credits). Ashanti is suppose to be a sing songwriter aswell, but she co-writes with 3 or 4 other writers too, and all they can come up with is "Im so happy baby"? Between 4 to 5 brains that all they can think of? Justin Timberlake (FE-MALE Britney), need I say more. B2K, not even worth commenting on, as for everyone else on 106 and park, and TRL. Ja Rule writes songs, but was has he done that has not been done already, and isn't already been done by his fellow rap peers right now? True Artist create. True artist strive to do something new. It is an insult to me, and all true artist (Prince, Stevie, Joni, Jimi etc.) who do create, and put their all into the music. For those who can write and play. If you write all of your songs, you should be considered as an artist, even if thats all you do. And thats a lot, same if you play music, and can create, that deserves the credit of being an artist. I write and I play piano. I am not the best in the world, but dammit I try my best. It just a slap in the face to all the true "ARTIST". How the fuck can Britney call her self and artist, what the fuck did she create? Just cause you lip sing, and dance does not make you an artist. If she even came up with her own dance steps then I would give her credit for that but she doesn't. I am only 19 years of age, I was born in 1983, and it is hard for people to understand why I take this so personal, but know one thing, the word "Artist" now-a-days have very little meaning, and the reason why is everything everything I stated above. Now what do you think?

Reppin' Bay Area to the fullest. Please god bless me to see one prince cd a year, cause he is the only "Artist" that worth hearing out of the active. Thanks for you time.

camille2002 said:

I agree with you. There is the difference of pop star and music artist...just like there are movie stars and actors/actresses. Music artist:Joni. Pop star-Britnay. Movie star:Ben Affleck. Actor:Phillip Hoffman.

It's a Pity actually that True Musicians don't seem to get Heard on Radio,Awards, or the Recognition/Respect they Deserve. It's about Image/Sex and a Look and What is Selling {Popular} Flavor of the Month. I Do Not Call these other Musicians Artists. They are Nowhere Near the Same Caliber or League as Prince is. He Writes/Produces/Plays many Instruments. He does it now without a Label. A True Independent. A True Leader. A True Artist! He is One of a Kind! He is Prince . There is only 1 ! He Cannot be Duplicated. An ORIGINAL!

That was a great piece camille2002. It reminds me of all the times they throw around the word geinus like it's cool. They do that with Eminem all the time. While I like his flow and how he brings the song, I don't think he's a genius. We have to be wary of what's around us because the majority of what's out there musically is a counterfeit to what's real. Thank God that we have someone like Prince to continue to create real music from the heart and soul so that it'll be that much easier to separate the truth from the lie.

dang homie for someone who dislikes them peeps you know more about them people than i do lol...

but anywhoo im not a player hater im a participator

Don't listen to Christopher.

Supernova said:

ooowww... !

Christopher said:

lol, u got me on that one. Can't help but to know about them when they are constantly being thrown in your face. know what I mean? peace.

Well you're talking shit as far as Michael Jackson is concerned.He's been writing or co'writing since the late 70's.Most of Michaels greatest songs were self-written.

A few examples - Shake your body (down to the ground), This place hotel, Don't stop (til you get enough),Working day and night, Rock with You, Billie Jean, Beat It, 8 out of 10 songs on Bad, a similar ratio for Dangerous and History and on and on...(i'd have liked to have named every song but i don't have all day)

If you heard the recently released demos to Billie Jean, Don't Stop and Workin' you would have to question how much Quincy contributed anyway, not alot on those three gems IMO.

Throw your shit at someone who deserves it!.

I agree with you guys about Eminem and the business, people throw around the word 'genius' and 'artist' way too often! And I can't help but feel alienated when all I hear on the radio is avril FREAKIN lavigne and her 15 year old looking sidekicks.

Thecherryloon said:

Great post!! Alot of people forget this,but Michael has actually written most of his biggest hits...songs like "Bille Jean","Beat It","Wanna Be Startin Something", and the majority of the "Bad" album.Those songs were all written by Michael,and in most cases,composed by him as well.Quincy Jones has confirmed this himself.Only in recent years has MJ gotten a little lazy,relying on others to write many of his songs.But he IS an "artist" in every sense of the word,and he has proven it in the past.
[This message was edited Tue Oct 29 4:12:57 PST 2002 by DavidEye]

"So Called Artist! Long Thread, bare with me."

OK, I admit it. I just swung by because I thought I saw my name in the title...

It looks like you are saying a vocalist is not an artist.
A vocalist uses their voice as an instrument.
Thats their art form
Frank Sinatra.
Elvis.
Dean Martin.
Doris Day.
Linda Ronstandt.
Joe Cocker.
All these musicians sang songs written by other people & for the most part didn't write songs or play instruments.
While I'm not comparing Britney Spears to Frank Sinatra my point is that a vocalist is just as much an artist.

And if not artists what would you call them? Hacks?

I totally agree with you Camille2002. I will never understand the music biz and why people buy such crap. I can see liking a song because it's a pop hit and catchy, but I do not understand how some people continue to buy crappy cd after crappy cd. The people you mentioned are indeed puppets and that includes MJ. He is a good entertainer and he has written some good songs in his life, but he is just so weird these days that no one takes him seriously anymore. You are correct about Janet too. I like Janet, but I will never understand how her music sells so much that MTV has to make her an "icon". WTF!! I guess it all has to do with Jimmy Jam and Terry L. Christina, Britney, Shakira, JLo and many more are just pathetic and they have very little musical talent. They might look good and know how to shake their money makers, but they really have no talent. Give me real musicians making real music anyday. I have been told that I'm far too opinionated when it comes to music and who has talent and who doesn't, but I don't care, I am sticking to my beliefs because I know really good music when I hear it.

thedoorkeeper said:

Now that is a very good post. I'd have to agree with you. Just because Britney/Justin etc. are shit, doesn't mean they aren't an artist - no matter how shit.

No disrespect towards MJ or JJ. And I will admitt that MJ has written more than a lot of the artist I mentioned. But why does it take him so long to come out with new material? On his first lp he wrote 3 songs and one of them was co written. He wrote and co wrote alot of songs off of Thriller and Bad. But to me he is more so an entertainer than an artist. As for the new lp...

camille2002 said:

I could (somewhat) understand why he waited so long in between albums during the 80s. Thriller and Bad were so big that it made sense to ride it out after all those singles being released, plus the tour(s) (I don't know how many he did). That takes up a lot of time. But since then I believe that Mike is more of a businessman in the music industry than someone who still has a heartfelt passion for music in general, and everything that that entails, like he used to be. I get the feeling his passion is the BUSINESS of music now.

I think they should be called 'performers' or if we're feeling generous 'performance artists' - that's what they do, if they're not creating what they are being recognised for is they're talent at performing.

*peace*

Om

thedoorkeeper said:

camille2002 said:

As for the new lp...i will continue to defend it, ever since the release of Dangerous people have been saying that Mike should make an album like the earlier ones (more soulful, more ballads,) and when he finally dropped it (Invincible) people tear it to bits!

He can't win really...

camille2002 said:

i followed you up to here. you mean to say mike is not an 'artist' in the real meaning of the word? get outta here! songs dude's written on his own, look and think again:

- don't stop 'til you get enough
- rock with you
- working day and night
- wanna be startin' somethin'
- beat it
- billie jean
- bad
- the way you make me feel
- speed demon
- liberian girl
- another part of me
- i just can't stop loving you
- dirty diana
- smooth criminal
- leave me alone
- black or white
- who is it?
- will you be there
- they don't care about us
- stranger in moscow
- earth song
- money

i didn't mention the songs he has co-written, think the list is impressive enough as it is. and what he has done entertainment-wise is pure genious, art in its purest form. okay, not so much lately, but the man's got one hell of a trackrecord. you make me mad! shame on you..

Michael needs to get back to basics. The man can write a wicked joint when he wants to. He needs to stop trying to be hip by hiring all these producers. He doesn't need producers like Teddy Riley, and Darkchild. He needs Michael Jackson to Produce, Arrange, Compose and Perform his music.

I bet you if Michael went into the studio on his own, he could make an amazing funky album. Not at the caliber of Prince, but in his own respect a masterpiece that suits Michael Jackson.

purpleone said:

Not meaning to be picky (altho' i am..lol!) but Mike didn't write Rock With You, if u have the original pressing of Off The Wall on CD then the credit is a misprint, it should be credited to Rod Temperton.

devilman said:

Not of the calibre of Prince? Are you saying Mike can't make a better album than New Power Soul or Rave?

He isn't THAT far gone.

Cloudbuster said:

you're right. was trying to make a point though. i hope that came across..

thedoorkeeper said:

"anybody can sing, there's more to genius then the word..."

Thecherryloon said:

Prince has a bigger body of work other than Rave or New Power Soul. Michael Jackson could not give you something as high calibre as 'The Rainbow Children', 'Sign 'O' The Times', 'Love Symbol', 'Diamonds And Pearls'...etc.

I don't think Mike would touch the kind of musical styles that Prince has. Prince has a magical touch when he adds his input to things.