I have heard, over the past 24 years, how Prince is a musical genius.

My question is, what makes Prince more of a musical genius than, say, David Bowie?

I mean, note for note, scream for scream, what puts Prince apart from the rest and elevates him to godlike status (not to me, mind you, but you fanboys)?

Personally, I see him as a cog in the wheel of music. Yes, his music is good. Even the more crappy songs are of high quality. But that also applies to David Bowie, Madonna, Rammstein, Nine Inch Nails, Run DMC, etc.

Can Prince's genius be isolated? Can we know exactly what it is that makes him different?

JimRockford said:

Prince's groove is not 2 be heard.....it's 2 be FELT.

Graycap23 said:

Wouldn't that be true of all artists? I certainly think so...

JimRockford said:

You've "heard" that he's a genius, yet never actually considered it for yourself? Is that what you are saying? Its up to you whether he is or not, not anyone else. Yes, there can be a concensus (and the general view is, yes, Prince is a genius) but that doesn't mean that it has to matter to you. Only you can decide if he deserves that merit, as you are the critic and know what you appreciate and what you don't.

As an example, I would consider both Prince and David Bowie musical geniuses, but not the other artists you mention - in terms of musical complexity, breadth of compositions, impact on the world of music etc none of the others you mention even compare to Prince/Bowie. And they are also mutually exclusive - in other words, Prince is Prince and Bowie is Bowie. Which leads us neatly to your next point.....

Can his genius be isolated? Well, yes, for the very reason stated above. Prince and Bowie are instantly identifiable, no-one else sounds like them, like no-one else sounded like Zappa - they are unique and their own imaginations and personal characteristics ultimately shape their music and presentation because, as true artists, they write from the heart and pour themselves in to their work. It sets them apart from the rest and each other.

JimRockford said:

That is NOT a skill that is easy 2 attain. I'd say MOST don't have it.

Mindflux said:

Right on, and well written.

One could also say that the connection between his mind and his ears is profound and VERY rare.

Mindflux said:

The rest of them was in regard to high quality music, not being a genius.

I am trying to ascertain what a "musical genius" is, really...

While Prince/Bowie are household names, they aren't the only ones that make great music.

Rammstein is a household name, only not in the US (not to mention unique and easily identifiable - no one else sounds like them). So I guess the whole question is subjective to what area one resides in... Or how old one is, as I am sure Nine Inch Nails (also unique & easily identifiable) is a household name to those in their early-mid 30s. Even Run DMC fit into this category. No one sounds like they did, then or now.

Interesting...

Well, some would call Bowie a genius, and not Prince. Some would call Dylan a genius and not Prince.

"Genius" is more opinion than anything.

JimRockford said:

I did understand that you wern't implying they were of genius standard, I was simply using them to illustrate my point. Though, I'm not sure i would put Madonna in the "high-quality" music bracket either but, again, here we see how subjective this is.

Neither should you infer from what I said that Prince and Bowie are the only musical geniuses out there - I don't hint at that at all and could name many more for you.

You are squatting on the idea that an artist who is "unique and identifiable" is a suggestion that they are a genius, but that is not what I said - I said that is what "isolates" an arist's genius. Furthermore, I stated what, for me, helps towards that genius status when I said "in terms of musical complexity, breadth of compositions, impact on the world of music etc". If an artist satisfies these criteria and has something extra special on top, then I might consider them a genius, but just being unique and identifiable (as those you have mentioned are) is not good enough.

It is true that, to some degree, your demographic might alter what you are aware of and able to access easily. But, also, the worldwide music scene has never been more accessible and so its easy to broaden your horizons and find those nuggets that exist in every genre of music. Current favourites of mine (and from different ends of the musical spectrum are Tom Jenkinson (aka Squarepusher - recently credited as being the best bass-player in the world and is also, for me, the absolute best electronica producer we have at the moment) and Omar Faruk Tekbilek - genius composer, ney/dudek/darbuka virtuso and creator of some of the most beautiful and emotive music ever to reach my ears.

I guess it depends on how passionate you are about music in general - the more you love it, the more you going to seek out new sounds, styles and ideas.

I think there's a difference between being a "musical genius" and just making really good music. A genius (and it's all opinion, as I said) performs at a level that is higher than normal people--normal professional musicians in this case.

Prince is called a genius because he plays a bunch of instruments, plays them well, writes hundreds (if not thousands) of songs, sings, dances, comes up with challenging ideas, etc. And he makes it all look easy. He's a musician who does it all, and does it all well.

Stevie Wonder is called a genius because he worked with a handicap to become a multi instrumentalist, and prolific songwriter, creating innovative & accessible songs.

U2 might create better songs than Prince at this point, but I wouldn't call any of them geniuses because nothing any of them does is extraordinary. One of them sings, one of them plays guitar, and none of them do their tasks at any level that is revolutionary.

The Beatles are not musical geniuses as performers, but their level of songwriting and innovative recordings stood high above their peers, and they elevated rock & roll to a new status. So I'd call them a collective genius, and particularly John Lennon was a creative genius.
[Edited 4/16/08 12:52pm]

Graycap23 said:

I'd have to agree with Graycap here, there's something that resonates in the heart and soul with P music, sound by sound. Other artists might catch a glimpse of 'it' here or there, but with Prince's musical genius, it's a hit' here & there' ALL of the time, And if not, most ALL of the time. That equates to a FUNKY GOOD TIME for any and all within hearing distance of the True Purple Majesty!!!

Short and sweet.. I would just say that Prince has strengths in several areas...making Prince a well rounded production of musical idea's.

God's Love
~cant be a genius without it.

He is.

He's not.

He doesn't.

He will.

that's why.

His melodic sense is/was superior to most marketed or known artists I've heard of, and his musical vocabulary is extensive, all done with ease. I mean, his work is rewarding; at first I couldn't get into his sound but then, it made sense to me one day when i let the music just hit me, instead of prejudging it to music I already like. Stuff like Parade is heaven

Prince's genius, like most geniuses cannot be put into words as far as I'm concerned. It's just a realization I get inside when I listen to his work. You can feel it, just kind of hits you and makes you go "Damn, this guy has got it"!
[Edited 4/17/08 4:30am]

His sense of melody and how simple his music is. The more simple a piece of music is, the more the public digs it. Take Beethoven's 5th. Those 4 notes are probably the most recognized in music. Or Smoke on the Water. The essential guitar riff everyone knows. 4 chords. Pruple Rain is just four chords. Songs like Girl, 2 chords mostly. It's his stripped down approach. Plus lots of his songs are based off of the I-IV-V chord progression, which is about as simple as it gets when it comes to rock and roll. It's all simplicity

I don't think the person who started this thread has ever FELT Prince, they might have seen him or heard him, but you've gotta feel him to understand. Not everybody can, sad but true
[Edited 4/17/08 5:12am]

Let us count the ways:

1) His musical scope is highly varied. He has produced rap,soul,blues, jazz, rock, funk, techno, house, classical, ambient music.

2) He is proficient on various instruments which he not only plays on record but also live in concert (drums, keyboards, piano, bass, and guitar. Many times he uses all this ability to create entire recordings playing all the parts.

3) His style. He is a visual creation of his own making. He has always presented himself as a fashion statement beyond or outside of the norm.

4) His vocal ability. Unlike say Sinatra or Luther I wouldn't say that Prince has a naturally beautiful voice but the use of his voice as both a lead instrument and as accompaniment is unparallel to me. His vocal imagination is tremendous. Its the strength of is mind (genius) that propels is voice to be used in so many varied ways..

5) His prolificness. He has written literally thousands of songs across a wide spectrum. Each of the songs are very particular and peculiar. They seem to mini universes unto themselves. He has a catalog and a work ethic rivaled by very few past or present.

6) He's also a dancer, an actor, a music producer, and a movie director.

7) He is creator of protégés. Actually giving them names or at the least giving them their initial notoriety. Sheila E, Vanity 6, the time, Andre Cymone, Carmen Electra, Mayte, Apollonia 6, Jam & Lewis, Wendy & Lisa, Tamar, Rosie Gaines.


8) Many musicians claim him as an influence. Basement Jaxx, Lenny Kraviz, Outkast, Alicia Keyes, Timberland, etc.

tricky99 said:

9. HE´S cute

Mindflux said:

excellent feedback Mindflux

myloveis4ever said:

U got that right.... The kid is fine

myloveis4ever said:

Well Said Tricky...agreed he is cute AND bootylicous BUFF...

All that comes in a tiny well packaged gift to us.

well for one when you hear other musicans.. not pop created mtv stars, but musicans from the past and now actually all say this guy is special. He has to be be if he is blowning their minds!

I have seen off the top of my head - Robert Plant, Eric Clapton, Barry Gibb (more a great producer), Sting, etc say this guy is a genius.

of course there is more and people can pull up quotes- but these are off the top of my head