That's how I perceive influence to be. As far as the Beatles is concerned with Prince, it's more similarity than influence.

Influences would contribute to defining a style, and other than a couple of songs and images, I don't feel that Prince is anything like them.
It's been an enjoyable debate though and raised some really good points![/quote]

err..Prince can't be he's Prince but like all "Pop" music from 60's onwards The Beatles created the style that "Influence" other artists to sum it up read this quote from John Lennon (1980)..you gonna love it..because it's true..

PLAYBOY: "Alright, but get back to the music itself. You don't agree that the Beatles created the best rock 'n roll that's been produced?"

LENNON: "I don't. The Beatles, you see... I'm too involved in them artistically. I cannot see them objectively. I cannot listen to them objectively. I'm dissatisfied with every record the Beatles ever fucking made. There ain't one of them I wouldn't remake... including all the Beatles records and all my individual ones. So I cannot possibly give you an assessment of what the Beatles are. When I was a Beatle, I thought we were the best fucking group in the god-damned world. And believing that is what made us what we were... whether we call it the best rock 'n roll group or the best pop group or whatever. But you play me those tracks today and I want to remake every damn one of them. There's not a single one... I heard 'Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds' on the radio last night. It's abysmal, you know. The track is just terrible. I mean, it's great, but it wasn't made right, know what I mean? But that's the artistic trip, isn't it? That's why you keep going. But to get back to your original question about the Beatles and their music, the answer is that we did some good stuff and we did some bad stuff."

PLAYBOY: "Many people feel that none of the songs Paul has done alone match the songs he did as a Beatle. Do you honestly feel that any of your songs on the Plastic Ono Band records will have the lasting imprint of 'Eleanor Rigby' or 'Strawberry Fields'?"

LENNON: "'Imagine,' 'Love' and those Plastic Ono Band songs stand up to any song that was written when I was a Beatle. Now, it may take you 20 or 30 years to appreciate that, but the fact is, if you check those songs out, you will see that it is as good as any fucking stuff that was ever done."

LondonStyle said:

err..Prince can't be he's Prince but like all "Pop" music from 60's onwards The Beatles created the style that "Influence" other artists to sum it up read this quote from John Lennon (1980)..you gonna love it..because it's true..
[/quote]


Yeah, Love the quote.....but you're opening up a whole new debate in my head.

He's giving the impression that the music was only good, at and for, its time. But 10 years on it hasn't aged too well and its all rubbish and needs to be done again!!!!

He could be saying it out of spite to get at Paul, or that since the split he has become more freer and talented as an artist and can see how everything they did as a group could've been so much better if he hadn't had the artistic restraints from the rest of the group.

It could also be his own arrogance and a way of using the credibility of the Beatles as a Benchmark to compare where he saw himself, artistically and musically!!!!

Hmmmmm, does that remind you of anyone?

Graycap23 said:

hear hear that is what I meant too.

You could say as a generation we are all affected by what has passed before. I beg the question: Do we ll love much of the Beatles work due to nostalgia? much in the same way many enjoy Purple Rain as their favourite piece due to nostalgia.

I dont think you can argue that Prince was influenced by The Beatles. Sure he at times has produced lyrics that may follow the lines of a few of their works in a similer genre, but as we all know Prince in no slave to a genre and I would suggest that the music you have listed is more recent Prince music such as Chelsea Rodgers, a funky 'pop' song from Prince. Nowhere near the same depth of lyric as Eleanor Rigby and not made in his early career.

His early music had a much more r&b feel and alot of disco but maybe that was the way to get the record deal done to write 'pop' music that would appeal to a wide mainstream which in fact it did successfully thus creating him the legend demi-god of cross race culture marrying r&b and popular music. The very thing that everyone takes for granted now. Singers like Beyonce would have remained very much esconced within the black music scene if it werent for artists like hendrix and prince breaking the stereotypes of music.

No - the Beatles as FAB as they were and are to some, I am sure were not an influence to Prince. Somehow I cant imagine his family all bopping away to Lady Madonna at a wedding or birthday.

'yo Prince turn up the 'lucy in the sky bit' we all luuurvve that bit' Put down your gitar - what you doing making all that craaazzyyy noise an wearin those tight pants!'

No


I dont think so.



P.S.

The Eleanor Rigby analysis was deep man! not.

mentalist said:
Yeah, Love the quote.....but you're opening up a whole new debate in my head.

He's giving the impression that the music was only good, at and for, its time. But 10 years on it hasn't aged too well and its all rubbish and needs to be done again!!!!

He could be saying it out of spite to get at Paul, or that since the split he has become more freer and talented as an artist and can see how everything they did as a group could've been so much better if he hadn't had the artistic restraints from the rest of the group.

It could also be his own arrogance and a way of using the credibility of the Beatles as a Benchmark to compare where he saw himself, artistically and musically!!!!

Hmmmmm, does that remind you of anyone?
[/quote]

Yeah just like Prince..that's why i like that quote...it's a game i think "Real Artist" like Prince and Lennon play because they can get away with it, they know half the people who write about their music have no idea what's going on to them it's like drinking water or eating fruit they just make the choices that suit them now not the "band" or "record company", because they are artistically free now!

viewaskew said:

No, they jacked what was hot and bastardized it.



P did his own shit.







No, the reason they'll be remembered over P has nothing to do with music.

PurpleJam said:

No, sorry dude. They completely jacked HELLA people and dropped their own cheap version of it all. The reason people appreciate what they did has nothing to do with music.

PurpleJam said:

1. George did every drug that existed.

2. George knew when to and wanted to play the game.

Dance said:

I don't think people UNDERSTAND this enough.

Prince said that the influence wasn't the Beatles.

Dance said:

Are you referring to their earlier covers matieral? Doing cover versions of songs by different artists(Chuck Berry, Motown etc.) is not 'jacking' songs from anyone. The Beatles were always very vocal about their early influences, which also included artists like Buddy Holly and Eddie Cochran. Now maybe you think that their cover versions of certain early rock and roll and Motown songs are not as great as the originals. But once again that does not equate with them 'jacking' the material. They then went on to create songs that were completely unique and original. Whether you cared for them or not is a matter of personal opinion.

viewaskew said:

And why is it a problem that he mentioned Sly, Parliament, Hendrix and James Brown? I hope you're NOT implying that they shouldn't be mentioned? It's no secret that P dug many white artists. Elvis, The Stones, Joni Mitchell, Zeppelin, Fleetwood Mac, Queen and of course, The Beatles. And many other "white" artists. If he didn't dig The Beatles to some extent, there would have been no ATWIAD or parts of Parade. The music to Paisley Park is a straight bite from The Beatles'"Revolution". The whole instrumentation and sensiblity of tracks like "Christopher's Tracey's Parade", the title song of "ATWIAD" and especially "Paisley Park" all echo heavily to The Beatles. Has nothing to do with the influence all the brutha's had on P either. So don't trip cuz somebody mentions some black folks.

PurpleJam said:

Ooooh and somebody give Purplejam some toast to go with his jelly! Please...Yeah, The Beatles were an influence on Funkadelic. So what? So were a number of other rock bands such as The MC5's, The Yardbirds and Zepp. Who were ALL white artists. The last two mentioned who were DEEPLY influenced by blacks. U said that to say what, punk? You're not saying anything that other's ALREADY aren't hip to. There's cats on here (including myself) that's been hip to this shit long before u were. So please, spare us with the punk ass quips "George Clinton did!". Prince was obviously influenced by The Beatles. They set the bar, after The Beach Boys, thanks to Brian Wilson, on HOW to record an album. That in itself, influenced cats like Hendrix, Sly and Funkadelic. Not just the music, but the freedom of creativity & expression in the studio. Just like Hendrix showed what was possible on the electric guitar, The Beatles had shown what was possible in the studio. So to say a cat like Prince wasn't influenced by them is absurd.

PurpleJam said:

I don't believe Dance was refering "jacking" to The Beatles because they did cover material. And yeah, I already know about Buddy Holly and Eddie Cochran. That's where John came up with the name for the band "The Beatles" because of Buddy's back up band name was The Crickets. And he was a huge fan of Buddy's. And they dug Cochran as well. Who didn't back then? You're saying all of that to say what? You're STILL running your mouth and not saying shit that nobody else on here doesn't already know. Yeah, I'm hip to how Paul spoke highly of Motown and how much he was influenced by James Jamerson,( a cat who actually played on my dad's material) and by Paul telling the British masses in the media that they were such huge fans of Motown, that in essence, it helped Motown sell even more records to white kids. Yeah,...and? What's that got to do with what Dance stated about The Beatles jacking?

hey blackguitaristz i think you need a lie down after all that - breathe deep - feel calm - think of mountains and the sea - there now feel better?

syble said:

Uh, I dig the sentiment and the fake concern and I feel quite good actually. Thanx, for all that's worth...But dig,...THIS isn't addressed to u. Nor is it for u.

Based on the logic of this thread, Prince has been influenced by EVERYONE who recorded a record before him. 2 that, I say BULLSH*T!

blackguitaristz said:

sorry for posting! Thought this was a free forum and I sure didn't see ur name on the thread name making it exuively for you. I was trying to inject some humour after your apparent rant. But it would appear you are humourless. I'd like to know why this thread ain't for me?

considering that the Beatles brought out genre jumping, multitracking, conceptual art albums, artistic covers, printing the lyrics, adding other genre instruments like strings to your rock song in a very deliberate way, adding experimental sound effects, using extremely memorable catchy melodies to bind it all together, and stick on complete experimental tracks, backwards recording, hidden messages, and hit after hit, and producing and writing hits for others, using psyeudonyms... and above all, changing your image and sound but still retain a strong identity with consistent elements...

I'd say they have greatly influenced Prince's method.

Prince live on the other hand is NOT influenced by the Beatles.

syble said:

Oh, u don't have to apologise to me. And u know that. But u were directing your post to me so at least be big enough to cop to it. I have a serious sense of humour but at the same time, I don't give a shit if u see it or not. That stated, don't be concerned with injecting humour on my behalf. It came across like perhaps u were trying to divert what I stated to someone else. That's why I posted to u what I did. In other words, what I saying didn't have anything to do with u, so I didn't need u trying to put a "smiley face" on what I was saying.

ufoclub said:

Yep.

DreamyPopRoyalty said:

Have a listen to Starfish and coffee followed by Strawberry fields and you will start seeing some real similarities - phrasing etc

jasontate said:

Yep...another good example.

ufoclub said:

The last I checked, P-Funk was doing ALL of those things as well. If Prince was a P-Funk devotee, and NOT a Beatle devotee, how does that make Prince a Beatle devotee?

It's hilarious seeing folks wanting to place Prince's influences in this or that basket

I would imagine that if Prince listenned to the radio and heard Mozart, Britney Spears, MJ, James Brown, Hank Williams, and Meatloaf, that he would be able to pull SOMETHING out of everything he heard whether it was worthy of his attention or not, and make something unique of his own based on hearing those.

It's not inconceivable that he would have used the Beetles as an influence anymore than it would be Hendrix or George Clinton. Prince has demonstrated his ability to dwarf any of his contemporaries musically before he even turned 25.

Graycap23 said:

What it is Gray my brother?...I KNOW where u are coming from. And indeed Parliament/Funkadelic were doing the same things. But I do believe George got hip to a lot of this from The Beatles. George just took it to another level and of course, it sounded vastly different.

blackguitaristz said:

All I 'm saying is: Prince has heavily influenced by P-Funk. Not the Beatles. Prince will tell u that.
[Edited 4/3/08 12:24pm]

Graycap23 said:

I know...I know he is. He's HEAVILY influenced by P-Funk. Way moreso than The Beatles.

blackguitaristz said:

George was hipped 2 it from the Beatles, no doubt, but 2 make that jump 2 Prince some 10 plus years later is just NOT true.

Graycap23 said:

I agree.

blackguitaristz said:

Kool.