laurarichardson said:

I think this is what pisses a lot of "Madonna is the bestest" fans off prince may be an asshole (and Madonna is too ) but creatures both great and small BE LOVIN HIM!

Supernova said:

---
Aaron

Is the list above special enough for you

Any pop tart from 1985 until today (& likely several years down the road) will admit to being influenced by Madonna.

Supernova said:

Ani has also per4med Sexy MF & Raspberry Beret live

mediadarling said:

Are the pop tarts artists that would be called "special"?

AaronForever said:

Really?

So people like:

Chaka Khan?

Patti Labelle?

Celine Dion (wait...no she is unimpressive)?

Sheena Easton?

The Bangles?

Kenny Rogers?

Joe Cocker?

Paula Abdul? (okay, another unimpressive person...but still, she at one time was a huge star)

Shiela E?

now, im not one to say that all of these artist merrited attention...however, we all have to admit that these people were all at the top of their genres at one point or another...im sure there are a crap load of other artist but im just too damn bored to do the research...

i stick with my initial statement:

Cultural: Madonna

Musically: Prince

rdhull said:

---
Your right people in the music want Madonna success they do not admire her as singer or muscian.

Loads of artist and performers would love to have written the songs that Prince has written and get away with the shit he got away with.

Lots of artist give him credit and some just rip him off.

AaronForever said:

You're right. Miles wanted to work with Prince. Another thing you may want to check out about Miles: he was as much of a brilliant talent scout as he was a conceptual innovator.

Supernova said:

yeah but..would Miles be someone who is seen as "special"?
[This message was edited Sun Oct 27 14:55:50 PST 2002 by rdhull]

mediadarling said:

Really??? I never thought Ani would touch a song like "Sexy MF", and didn't know she covered "Raspberry Beret" either. Just another couple of reasons Ms. DiFranco kicks ass: she does the unexpected and is talented enough to pull it off.

rdhull said:

Quite frankly, NO. Not special like say...Kenny G., and Kenny can't be bothered with Prince's music (at least so far).

And another thing; I think the fact that my favorite rock group today (RADIOHEAD) is obviously influenced by Miles Davis is downright refreshing for a rock group coming out of the 90s. Not that that has anything to do with this thread, but since I am a Mileshead and a Radioheadhead, I'm just sayin'...

Supernova said:

So are we to assume that since nobody special utilizes their own take on Prince music that he is null and void while all the "actual" special people ( not including Miles, Living Color, Labeele, Patti Smith, et al.) are busy doing covers of Madonnas music while and/or being heavily influenced by her but bypassing Prince? Hmmm..I guess madonna must be the "bestest" --

you be illin-run dmc

AaronForever said:

Miles didn't cover Prince but he did cover Cindy Lauper.

BOTH..! EQUALLY!!

SkletonKee said:

ho hum

that's 1


no


hell no


quit joking



you're ill



i'm going to have you institutionalized



unimpressive.



proteges don't count

mistermaxxx said:

Look man again you are talking about star-power!!!
Madonna is one of the greatest stars in past 25 years (God only know why!!!) noone is questioning her popularity and lovgevity of course people love her but Prince is a completely different artist than Madonna so therefore the type of influence he has on aspiring musicians is totally and completely different.

Madonna is not going to influence anyone musically, her influence will be how this young woman from Detroit will herself to the top with ambition.

Prince orbits the realm of muscians like I said before when I mentioned Hendrix. A qoute from the Village Voice

"Prince is the greatest rock-and-roll musician
of the era- as singer-guitarist-hooksmith
beatmaster, he has no peer."

You said Prince is not innovative man that is definitely your opinion, pretty weak one at that considering all the top-flight musicians who have worked with Prince

Who is still making Grammy award winning cds?, who is still being still creative after 20 years? Who is still making movies, soundtrack cuts, starring in videos, and still have time to get married and have kids? Who doesn't give a shit about Masters and the MAN bringing them down and stealing from them? Who let's others producers and writers in? Who doesn't charge $100 to join their fan club? Who has a brand new single, in stores right now with 5 remixes? Who has another film bomb and still contines to make movies? Who had a sold out tour and a live HBO special for all their fans? Who has more outfits and records in the R&R hall of fame? Who do more drag queens want to dress like? Who will be influencing people for 10 more years?

enough

gman1966 said:

I Mention Madonna as a Musician Learn too Live with it Period.I Said Prince isn't Innovative IMHO but as Joni Mitchell Said It Best a Really Good Hybrid&I Agree with Joni.who in the Hell is so Top FLight that Prince has worked with in His Paisley Circle?Shelia E? Maybe.has He had a Keyboard Player on the lines of a Bernie Worrell?? A Bass Player of His own that was on Larry Graham's,Charles Mingus's,James Jamerson's,etc..Level??? is Prince's Horn Section on par with the JB Horns? P-FUNk Horns? Tower Of Power's Horns? EWF Horns?? has He had a Wes Montgomery type of Guitar Player or Eddie Hazel type of Player In His Mix?? has He had a Steve Ferone type of Drummer or Tony Williams type of Drummer??has He had a Billy Preston type of Organ Player in His Band?? now unless you can bring Me some Type Flight Names that Measure Up too the Folks I Mentioned take that Weak Junk you are Bringing too the trash.

jthad1129 said:

Who doesn't know they don't come close to understanding the point?

Wolf said:

seems like he understands the point just fine. the title of this thread is "who was more influentual, Prince or Madonna?" with no qualifier on what constitutes influence.

AaronForever said:

Yea, and most of that stuff he's talking has NOTHING to do with influence if you read it. Some of it is totally subjective (who's more creative?). The rest is stupid: who do drag queens dress like?, still has time to get married and have kids.

Who is this Madonna?

http://www.terrydobbin.com

If my answer would be madonna i would not be on this site.
My sister would answer madonna but she is not such a great musiclover as i am. Or she would also answer Prince.

TerryD said:

More influential to me personally:

Musically: Prince - he just does it for me in every way

Trends: Madonna
I still have my rubber bracelets

AaronForever said:

Really?

So people like:

Chaka Khan?

Patti Labelle?[quote]
that's 1

[quote]Celine Dion (wait...no she is unimpressive)?Sheena Easton?The Bangles?Kenny Rogers?Joe Cocker?Paula Abdul? (okay, another unimpressive person...but still, she at one time was a huge star)Shiela E?


okay...ill give you most of the comments...funny how you call Chaka ho hum though...when she is normally ranked in the top 30 female artist of all time...

and i know your a young white lad from the hick burbs but...JOE COCKER ROCKS!! that man has a voice...and Kenny Rodgers is a country legand...He might not be my cup of tea either...but im not gonna talk sh*t about the artist just to defend Madonna...(or any other performer in that case)..you ask a question, i responded.

so let me turn this over to you..please respond with the names of artist who madonna has written for? hmmm? hmmm?

jthad1129 said:

No not "enough" because that diatribe still basically aint said shit. Madonmna is making videos, releasing singles etc because she has stayed a part of the "machine", and Prince could have "easily" done the same...but he decided to be the rebel that is in his roots and give that part up for the most part. He decided to go where his actual feelings lead him. Madonna on the other hand while maybe still satisfied with her system stays with it. She HAS to.Prince didnt. (big difference. Prince has had several chances to do things in the general public that would have given him extreme exposure such as performing on MTV and declining etc. etc.). Just because Madonna still makes movies dont trip and think thats all due to her "influence". It is due to her "husband" being the director. Hello! McFuckin-Fly! And for a movie to be green lighted it isnt because studio heads are thinking "shes a great actress..this could work". If anything its " lets throw this on the wall and hope it sticks--hope he rfans come out strong enough to get us a profit. And as I said yes...she has been influential on different levels than prinve ans they both are important.. but the gay obligation mafia thing is not something "special". Drag queens? Oh thats SO special...so now its been relegated to the "type" of influence and importance of that influence...ok then..Prince may be an ass,(and Madonna has fucked over many people close to her too but thats never an issue--its always swept under the rug as her being a woman who has moxy etc...booolshit. And if you want to go there, shes has done detrimental things as a whole such as allowing pop fluff to be passed off as ...cough *art* cough and her fanatics blindly believing in that). Ayone with any sense knows that Prince has the most integral and respectful influence. Fuck a "fashion" type of influence. Prince begat-Dangelo, Beck, ...Madonna begat Britany Spears. Enough?...pffft.
[This message was edited Mon Oct 28 8:17:59 PST 2002 by rdhull]

mistermaxxx said:

Man please, the people you mentioned are awesome no question and I should have been more specific about the musicians but on that note who are you to put down the people Prince has worked with in his inner circle. People like Michael Bland, Sonny T. or even Jimmy Jam or Terry Lewis. Of forgive me I did not realize you were such a excellent musician that you can criticize or lessen other muscians abilities.

If any musician is going to work with Prince you can rest assure that they are going to be top flight musicians and your opinion that what Prince has accomplished as a composer and lyricist is not innovative is in my opionion stupid and igonorant.

Here is a brilliant Brutha for example who took the synthesizer to play with and accomany himself like very very few artist have been able to do. Prince made the synthesizer actually an instrument meaning rather than just mimicking sounds Prince made unique sounds which created more possibilites meaning Prince use the synthesizer to reduce the struggle of attempting to orchestrate, coordinate and express his vision through several other musicians which opened the door for many more young people around the country to gain access to a music career by making the musician both producer and artist thus Prince's influence is completely different from Madonna's that is why this is a silly comparison. Apples and Oranges. Now Stevie was also the master of the synthesizer but the key difference with Stevie
was that he continued to keep strong relationships with musicians to ensure that the music was able to move pass
his singular point of view.

You see everyone this may be the reason for Prince's downfall with the public. His greatest asset maybe his fatal flaw. His overwhelming desire to be a one man band allows him to be so damn prolific but his personality quirk of not being able to buld long term relationship may have caused him to lose some of his essence so Prince is now thought of as being out of touch.

No question Prince is not selling anymore now how important is that in scheme of things I do not know but Prince self-destructed. His eccentricities and business missteps proved to completely fuck up his commercial career.

"Innovation - the act of introducing something new" GET IT!!!

gman1966 said:

and commercialism doesnt mean shit because Zappa and others who arent in the everyday joes record collection has a great influence on music , music aesthtetc etc more than anything...just because disco dandies etc. dont know about them or dont feel their worth anything doesnt mean its not more influential than (insert name here).