In your opinion, has cRAP bad affected Prince's music?
I have nothing against cRAP, but cRAP has nothing to do with "real music 4 real music lovers".
Last week i was listening to "Diamonds and pearls": there are some songs (Daddy pop, Live 4 love) really devastated by cRAP, and you can find many eaxamples in all albums starting from 1988.
Jazz influence is ok, as soul, funk, hard rock... but i wish P had never fallen in love with cRAP....

Rap is not bad...RAP is da Bomb! Tony M was the messiah of RAP!

Rap hasn't had anything to do with his crap quotient for years now!

I've had this conversation with a few other fans.

Prince has always his own style of rap from early days (with a funky edge) - examples being Annie Christian, All the critics love you, Irresistable Bitch, Dance on! and a few others.

It was always rumoured that in the 80's Prince disliked Rap and didn't appreciate it as a musical form. (Although there is a fun little rap he does in the extended version of Love or Money in the voice of Camille)

That didn't stop him however from releasing (what I believe to be his first full rap attempt) the hiddeously bad "Dead on it" from the black album. Oh dear.

Having been a devoted fan for 22 years now, I have experienced many changes in Princes styles first hand at the moments of release.

I don't think that the rap element spoiled the albums or songs you mentioned and personnally appreciated at the time the new direction and re-invention of a new sound and image. If the entire albums were rap orientated then I would not have the same opinion. Prince has always mixed musical styles on all his albums whether rock, funk, jazz, r 'n b, soul, reggae, rap etc. and something that I believe is a talent and to be appreciated more than criticised.

The rap issue for me is when Prince raps. He can't!!! His voice is an amazing instrument with a unique range that he uses to amazing perfection - and the screams!!!!! WoW..... But face it, he can not Rap!

Dead on it!, My name is Prince! The flow! When will we b paid?, Now!(although I do like it) Jughead!

May he continue to experiment with all musical genres and open our ears to all forms of sound.

0+>

The real problem is that Prince doesn't understand HIPHOP.
Never has.
Thats why he wrote Dead On It. Thats why he thought it was merely a passing fad.
The irony lies in the fact that he had to adopt a 'whiter' pop sensibility to gain mass-acceptance at the expense of his black musical roots and audience, while hiphop remained resolutely true to itself and a worldwide cross-racial audience came to the music, with no real compomise involved.
Princes fatal error has been to use bad rappers. Sometimes his own rhymes are superior to those of the so-called rappers he drafts in. The only quality rap he's ever had, I think, is Eve's on TGRES (which makes P's rhyme look childish).
Part of the restriction, for him I think, is a moral issue in that many of the better rappers project what P considers negative stereotypes.
It's why Jay-Z couldn't get him to guest on the Black Album and why Diddy couldn't get clearance for a 'Kiss' sample on Biggies 'Hypnotize', yet he happily guested on Common's Electic Circus.

On a (sort of) related note, has anyone ever heard a blendtape of Camron's rhymes over P's instrumentals? A good idea, poorly executed unfortunately.

Aloisio said:

Rap is not music, and Prince should never lower himself to that substandard. Prince is a musician who can play instruments. Rap and hiphop is created by the lower class for low class people (the mainstream and below).

lspear76 said:

That is all sooooo wrong! Wrong, wrong, wrong. And so wrong of you to state it so candidly.

What a Snob! Makes you sound like Mary Sharron!

mentalist said:

well said mentalist! i think the only other thing you missed was the word - ignorant!

rap is a form of musical expression and rap artists have helped mold the world of popular music that we know and love today, in that they have experimented with sampling, and layering music in a way that we appreciate in princes music.

rap has been used successfully in many of princes songs and he obviously appreciated artists at that time or he would not have included them i refer you to lovesexy, even on planet earth there is some rap albeit prince stylie! " alot of chatter that really dont matter" on mr goodnight.

there is some very good rap out there, and yes some bad but that is surely true of all musical genres.

the reason we love prince and his funny raps is because he experiments with everything

and as to the earlier comment about prince leaving his 'black' roots for a whiter audience - what tosh!!!

prince doesnt have to conform to a stereotype, his music has always been unique and actually derived from alot of rock influences like jimmy. playing electric guitar is not a 'black' thing its a rocknroll thing. The reason prince crossed the racial 'apparent' boundaries is because his music cannot be pigeonholed.

i think the uk has been open to all colours of music much longer than its friend the usa who is still pretty racist about certain issues even the tv shows are segregated as tho people can only possibly enjoy watching 'their own kind' unbelievable! with regards to the integration of musical roots and breaking down of racial boundaries plus the breakdown of stereoptypical music I point you to ska as an example.

I saw an interview with mariah carey years ago on the wright show (UK show) where she said the uk and london in particular was the only place she felt recognised as a singer and not as a black singer. she said she was comfortable here as a mixed race woman she was simply mariah and she is pigeon holed etc in the states.


sorry to got on one - but when people make uniformed and bigotted comments I think they need the truth pointed out to them!

lspear76 said:

Even though I am not a fan of rap, your statement is wrong and full of stereotypes.

syble said:

Who loves the world of popular music today? I don't know anybody who does. Rap has helped make today's music unlistenable. People do not even buy music any more. The only albusm that sell are those made by and for low class, unintelligent people. Examples? Kanye West, High School Musical, Hannah Montana.

Aloisio said:

You say you have nothing against it, yet you call it crap. Hmmm

Rap is like any music form. Some is good. Some is bad. You can't condemn a whole genre. That's ignorant. I may not dig, oh say, heavy metal, but that doesn't make it bad or low class. I just don't like it, hell, maybe I just don't GET it.
The thing about rap, and ALL american music currently, is that MOST of it has been ruined by record execs who think they know better than an artist. So they choose who they want, what kind of music they want, and jam it down the people's throats.
I think that is effecting rap more than any other genre right now.
Guys, rap is a artform like any other, what is inhearently wrong it?

lspear76 said:

I don't neccesarily dig (I hate them) hanna montana and the high school thing, but those are for CHILDREN.
But please tell my why KanYe West is for low class, unintelligent people? Sounds like generalizing to me.

ToraToraDreams said:

Because Kanye West's music is not even real music. He has no talent. There's nothing to it. It's the same trite hip hop bs. Black music today is just so terrible and worthless, almost if not more worthless than the trite sold to children and preteens. The two things that the above albums have in common is that... 1. they're made by/produced by dumb people and 2. consumed by dumb people. To think in 40 years we've gone from brilliant, real soul artists to pathetic, materialistic and worthless hip hop...

lspear76 said:

But you are comparing old school funk and soul with current Hip-Hop and Rap. The only similarity is that all the genres have Black origins.

It's just just like trying to compare Country and soft rock from 40 years ago with Hard Rock, Industrial and Nu-Metal.

They are all different and not to be confused and compared unless for expressing a preference between them all.

crap is the majority of planet earth and there wasn't one rap track unless u consider mr goodnight "rap". so 2 blame the whole culture of hip hop as crap is like saying classical, bluegrass etc as crap. it's alright 2 not like a genre but Prince's music on planet earth can not b accredited 2 hip hop

lspear76 said:

You're being to general to respond to, man.
It's dumb
It's not real music
How can I possibly respond to that unless I say
Nu uh!
Uh huh!

lspear76 said:

when i used the term popular music i meant it in its braodest sense ie to include anything that isnt classified as classical.

you could say that the money making machine that is the music industry is actually what has made much of popular music unlistenable, which is why people both young and old are searching out new artists and why the 'pop' charts now mean nothing, hence the demise of shows such as 'top of the pops' in the uk.

it surely has been the middle men the money spinners who have caused this demise in that they have fabricated bands and championed very poor acts such as jlo as they can make a fast buck from these people. the young 'boy bands' including some 'rap artsits' as such are merely the victims of the charade known as 'the music industry'. They appear famous, they appear to be rich but this is all on the whim of the man in the suit only to be taken from them when the suit decides they arent bringing in the bucks any more.

this has to be where prince was truly pioneering in presenting his music online and not via the 'industry' that chose to try and quash his creativity, we would never heard some of his 'rap' numbers as they would never have been pressed.

the new 'mr man' is the radio stations who pertain to play cutting edge stuff when all they do play is a set list that doesnt change month on month, as long as the advertisers keep the bucks rolling in they will continue to play the same shite.

the music bubble is bursting and prince knows it as should you.

if you can hear that some rap is bad then surely you can hear that some is good and the composition is clever. Do you think their lyrics are less clever than princes? do you think eminems lyrics are poor or misconceived or trite?

I would suggest that you open your ears and hear more than the obvious, listen to the layers and listen to lots of genres to really appreciate the art of music making/writing.

To say that someone is low class becaus they like take that for example is a boorish and ignorant thing to say.

Some may say that because you listen to 'popular music' ie prince and not just classical that it is you who are the lower class.

Do we still judge peoples class by what they read or listen to, do we in fact still have classes?


I think not.

syble said:

Amen.

thanks toratoradreams

ToraToraDreams said:

Totally!

It is not good to judge and dismiss what you do not understand. You may miss out on something really special!

lspear76 said:

Man shut the hell up that sounds so fucking ignorant. There More to Rap than you would probably ever understand. How about you study it and then come back to say something.

syble said:

just listen 2 the raps in the song prince and the band and it echos a lot of what ur saying in ur post

7 million of the top still unrecouped when ur band gets dropped

chilling off the plantation living in the shade ...

sorry which song are you referring to l4OAtheoriginal?

mentalist said:

Yes we do judge people's class by what they read and listen to. That's why "high culture", which includes opera, is much different from "popular culture" which includes rap. Surely you're not saying you can't judge a person's class by what they enjoy?

NastradumasKid said:

There is nothing to rap. It is NOT MUSIC, it is LOW CLASS, and it is enjoyed by people who are low class and unintelligent. Popular "music" like rap is part of the reason a true musician like Prince can't be what he really is. How ironic is it that a lower form of music made by less skilled "artists" dominated the mass consumption charts for so long. But what can you say? It appeals to the lowest common denominator of society. That's the truth, no matter if it sounds ignorant or not.

All the great soul artists and real musicians know this. It's unfortunate that society is so devalued and easy to please. I expect more from my "art". Too bad many others don't feel the same, but that's cool with me. It separates the knowledgeable from the stupid.

lspear76 said:

Well It's a ignorant thing to do surely your parents didn't teacher you to prejudge something you don't quite understand.

NastradumasKid said:

For NastradumasKid...

"NAS" sucks. LOL.

lspear76 said:

Oh that's a good one... at your age.

NastradumasKid said:

So, everything you have an opinion on, you have studied and understand 100%? Give me a break lol. I don't need to study Wu Tang Clan, NAS, or any other rap group to know that what i'm listening to is complete gutter garbage. Simple as that.

lspear76 said:

Then why judge something you don't understand...
You know what ....