mirrorbestfriend said:

Well yeah, it could be that way. But it could also be that he's actually playing exactly the way he wants to play, as it is.
And that he wouldn't play any differently, even if he did have more alternatives. We don't know, really.

As I see it, you don't necessarily need to have all the tools in the world in your toolbox - just the ones you need to get the job done.
Which, for a musician, means being able to recreate the sounds you hear in your mind.

For the most part, I think Prince can do that. But on some rare occasions, especially when he's improvising on guitar or keyboards, I sense that he's not really getting to where he wants to be. Like he knows what words to say, but doesn't quite know how to pronounce them. But then again, I don't know either. It's just speculation.

However, if he (or anyone else) were to learn more musical theory, in order to use as improvisational material, you not only have to know it intellectually;
to be able to use it on an emotional level as well, you have to learn to hear the notes in your mind before playing them (see post #47). And that usually takes a lot more time to accomplish...

Also, that's a perfect example of how playing always involves the ear, no matter how "theoretical" you are!

the fact is:

HE CAN READ MUSIC

perfect hearing helps
as does knowing lots of theory
genius is that and something extra.

But please don't let me stop you

Would you stay on posting on a web site dedicated to someone you thought wasn't great?


would u hire a dentist who dont know all his stuff?

i told yall prince was musically deficient[/quote]

I dont need any schooling about James Marshall Hendrix..thank you !

Dewrede said:

Let me say something real quick here.
The music consists of all kinds of things. Sound, rhythms, melodies, chords...
There`s no point in having this conversation if you rate the quality of the musician just because the harmonic approach. Come on ya`ll - let`s face it. The dude is one of the funkiest men that ever walked on planet earth. It`s that Prince beat. It`s the beat. There has been talk about the RRHOF performance. Why does the house melt when he hits the solo, and why is everything lukewarm when Knopfler plays? It`s the rhythm (+ a whole lot of other things on top). Why do Cedar Walton and Ray Bryant sound so different when they play a Blues in the key of F? Why is it so different from one another, even if they both play with the same harmonic approach to a large extend. It`s the rhythm(+the touch, the feel, ideas).
What`s up with these Quincy Jones and Prince comparisons? That`s utter bullshit as well. The producer God and the Funk God. Why compare? Why why why? Look at what they have in common instead. They mastered art.
All of these discussions are pointless. If you want to hear Prince shredding, and let`s say you´re guitar player, then go home, get the right tracks, listen to it, enjoy it, feel it, and study the shit, and then you`ll see if you can learn from it, if it makes YOU a better musician. Don`t do useless threads on prince.org in your spare time. Go home and play your guitar. Or even better, get a band, and play music together.

It`s all about the rhythm. Miles said "Prince got great 1`s". Truth.

i get what you're saying here and agree for the most part. i'd add that i was always someone who sang better than i played so it may be the case (in reverse) with some musos. i thinking about a guy like coltrane or those great painists.

Lovely !

TonyWilliams said:

TonyWilliams said:

I couldn't agree with you more. There is much more to music than just the chords. And Prince is not simply a master of funk, either. I just bought Parade yesterday and listened to it for the first time, and when "I Wonder U" came on, I couldn't believe what I was hearing! How does one classify a song like this into a genre? The dizzying bass line, the unorthodox percussion, the narcotic woodwind fills, and of course, Prince and Wendy's equally strange vocal harmonization.

There are many, many other examples of Prince's genre-bending compositional skills ("Shy," "Power Fantastic," even "Starfish and Coffee," etc.), and all of these attest to his mastery of music and his "voice."

I seem to have gotten off point regarding his guitar playing, however. I do think he tends to revolve around a pentatonic base, but he is by no means confined to it and ventures out of it when he feels the need to. He may not be technically impressive to "trained" guitarists, but he has a natural fluidity with the instrument that no amount of training can instill. I feel he treats the guitar as an extension of his singing voice, and his solos are extremely melodic in a song-like manner (I would check out the solo to "Dolphin," which I've always really admired, or, for that matter, any track on The Gold Experience, like "I Hate U" or "Gold).

TonyWilliams said:

Actually, I think it's quite interesting to discuss different performers and their abilities and preferences. Not only what we know they're good at, but also what they can't or won't do; what choices they make and why.

One of the most important things we can learn from this, is that most artists and performers are actually much more human than we think - or want to think - they are.

The less people know about music, the more they tend to believe that people are either "geniuses", who know and master everything - OR hopelessly untalented (with no chance of ever improving). The truth is, of course, that we're all somewhere between. Prince is, too.

Other than that, I agree with most of what you're saying.

prettymansson said:

then don't act as if it was Jimi to begin with

pennylover said:

Dewrede said:

[Edited 1/7/08 18:29pm]

RealMusician said:

That is very interesting...It's like the frustration, any person can go through trying to explain something, when even words don't come together enough. It is that fine line between eternal inspiration, and well said.

Well this is a great guitar discussion

Musicians are a funny lot, much like women. They are the bitchiest most competitive group I have ever been around, and I've been around pro athletes who were nowhere near as mean spirited and competitive. Nowadays, when I play open mics, there are many which have more musicians attending than observers, I steer away from those since I don't want to play my ass off for a bunch of jerks who are looking for anything to pick apart. You wouldn't believe the tastlessness of some of them, they will get on stage and down the previous act or (if the mc is a musician) try to sabotage your performance with poor sound and short sets. Petty man, really petty.

mozfonky said:

I know...why is that? Seems I've been lucky to have a group of friends who are supremely talented, yet humble like you wouldn't believe. But I've met other musicians who would just as soon slit your throat than jam with you. Sad, because music is very much a collaborative art, and sometimes it can be difficult to find a cool group of guys (or girls) to jam with.

Going back to Prince's guitar playing: are there certain things that people don't like so much about his playing? I, for one, feels that he tends to follow the "rule of three" a bit too much in that, in almost every solo I hear (especially nowadays), he will take a lick and repeat it verbatim three times. I understand the effectiveness of repetition and how it can be used to build tension, but does anyone else think that maybe it's simply become another device that he uses a bit too often?

Tame said:

Kids, this is why you should all stay in school.

Cuz that way, you'll know when to be impressed and know when they're just shinin' your sox.

mirrorbestfriend said:

There is a difference between knowing musical theory and being a musician.

Stevie Wonder can't read a note of music, but by any measure, he's a master musician.

There are quite a few people who can't spell Mixolydian, particularly in Asia and India, but they are, by any measure, musicians.

If you can move people by what you sing or play, that's what being a musician is all about.

NDRU said:

Bingo. Until I started learning Asian languages, I never *truly* realized the difference between listening and speaking, vs reading and writing.

These are four distinct, but related skills.

Most people can speak a lot better than they can write. It doesn't make them any less smart; they are just less trained in one of the four language skills.

You may not be able to tell that someone is dyslexic or illiterate if you only hear them speak. If they practice that skill often, they can become gifted public speakers, and still not be able to write a damn thing.

The same for music: the heart of what many call music is being able to sing or play it on a particular instrument. If that's all you do, you can become quite proficient, even if you never learn how to read music or understand "why" something sounds good or bad.

Obviously though, if you develop all of your skill sets, they can only help to expand your proficiency and overall mastery.

Alasseon said:

Basically, I agree.

With one exception though:
You could be a composer as well, without really singing or playing an instrument. Then the importance of the different skills might be almost the opposite. But you'd still be dealing with the "heart" of music, at least if you ask me.

Whichever way you do it, it's always a process in three steps:

1. You receive information, inspiration, impressions, emotions etc.
2. All this is processed in your mind, and eventually transformed into imaginary sounds. Often on a sub-conscious level.
3. Your imaginary sounds and visions are realized physically, through singing, playing an instrument, writing down a composition etc.

Actually, there are both conscious and sub-conscious aspects to all of these three steps, which is exactly what makes it so difficult to discuss in terms of "knowledge"...

stevie wonder grafuated on classical piano for blind people conservatorium,so he can definetly read notes the way blind people read.

prince don't folow the rule of three as u said.
he simply adds what accomodates song

thebanishedone said:

In that case, three seems to be his magic number for accommodating a song, because I can think of numerous examples where he does this. It's interesting because when he's playing keys, I rarely hear him do this.

I totally love this thread. This topic is a breath of fresh air. I always learn something from discussions like these. Those of u who play guitar and contributed 2 this thread appear 2 b very knowledgeable.

RealMusician said:

Lord,

If you are not employed as a teacher, then you should be! I really want to pick up my guitar again as a result of this thread...

Thank you for your perceptive and entertaining posts.

Alasseon said:

Oh, thank you! And yes, I actually am working as a teacher.

It's always nice to discuss something other than hairstyles and shoe sizes...

Ice9sFine said:

That's interesting. I've never thought of that.

But if it's true, it kinda fits in with my theory that Prince doesn't always know what he's doing. It's likely that he's more in control of his choices when he's playing guitar, and can more easily find the notes he wants to play, the notes he's actually hearing. Then it also makes sense to repeat a phrase, because that's the way he hears it.

Since he's less familiar with the keyboards and doesn't quite have the same skills, even if he's hearing the same things clearly in his mind, he can't always fulfill them on the instrument. Therefore, you usually won't hear him repeat a phrase, since he's not finding the notes he intended to anyway.

RealMusician said:

actually i was thinking how nice it is 2 c prince playing his guitar, especially when he's got a nice shirt on. u know, watching his hands work tht instrument with stylish cuffs & check out his pimpalicious cufflinks...somehow improves his rep. stuff ability

RealMusician said:

U got that right Thats why im lovin this thread. RealMusician, I always enjoy reading your posts

Come on cats, put the needle on the record or/and play your axxe, and stop wasting your time. "let`s do something.....let`s do something soon".