pennylover said:

That song has one of the most common chord progression known to man. Am-G-F over and over. Anyone who's played guitar for a couple months can pick it up by ear no problem.

johnnyreeferseed said:

Hey Reeferseed, this has nothing to do with the thread, but i have really enjoyed that link you posted from IsabellaBrave, great voice and some very interesting covers of songs

pennylover said:

It's the same as language. You could learn to speak without knowing how to read.

johnnyreeferseed said:

Thanks 4 the info, all I know he made it his own and ran with it. If that was easy then a lot of stuff the man does must be easy as hell. I notice those that play guitar on here says that the stuff Prince plays is easy, if that’s the case why is he rated as one of the greats? Is this why some think he’s overrated because he doesn’t read music yet Jimmy couldn’t read music but its ok? Yea, I know they say he’s the best that ever picked up the guitar and I agree he was absolutely amazing with that instrument, but I never heard anyone knock Jimmy because he didn’t read music like they do Prince yet I absolutely love Princes guitar playing much better than Jimmy’s now that’s just my opinion. Prince is why I love the guitar, like Magic got me into basketball and Sugar Ray Leonard got me into boxing etc.
Again great thread and I have learned so much from u guys.

PLEASE WRITE JIMI not Jimmy
Thank You..

pennylover said:

prettymansson said:

Amen

FuNkeNsteiN said:

does it matter...he dead

I often think to myself..what is the ONE test that would beyond a shadow of a doubt confirm that a person doesn't Really Know anything about Jimi Hendrix..and
#1 on the list is calling him "JIMMY"

FuNkeNsteiN said:

prettymansson said:

yeah but i can hear jimi?

prettymansson said:

damn! my bad don't rub it in just because I spelled his name incorrectly doesn't mean I know nothing about him and yes I did blow it. J I M I

No Offense..its not personal..he's just more important to me than my Father...

pennylover said:

prettymansson said:

damn butt he didnt get it on with yo mama....did he?

mirrorbestfriend said:

I play trumpet, bass, guitar and keys in a variety of bands. I've also studied Advanced Contemporary Music Theory at the Queensland Conservatorium of Music and written upward of 200+ fully produced songs... so I like to think I know a thing or two about it .

Once again people, being able to read music notation and having an understanding of music theory are two completely different things. I don't believe Prince can read music, but I'm sure if I gave him a chord progression or a scale he would be able to play it no problems. Sure, he can play by ear, but playing by ear is a lot easier if you know your scales and chords

toejam said:

I completely agree. Some people think that if an artist cannot read music, it equates to just fumbling around on the instrument, playing chords and scales without knowing what their name is in music theory. I can recall off of the "Another Lonely Christmas" bootleg that Prince talks about Diminished, Major, and Minor scales when trying to get the bass or piano together I believe. He knows his scales and knows his chords. He may not be able to sight read, but he knows chord progressions and the like...

Shawnt25 said:

Yes, I agree with you guys.

I would like to add just one thing:
Music theory is - of course - not a specific amount of information, that you either "know" or "don't know". That's like saying "Yeah, I know geography"...

Prince probably knows a little bit, perhaps about average for a professional or semi-professional musician, but there is also a LOT of stuff I'm sure he's not familiar with (including things he's actually doing himself).

It's the same with being able to read music - there are many different levels of mastery. A lot of people say they "can read music", but what does that really mean? To look at the staff and be able to say "OK, let's see...that's a G...there's a C sharp..." etc?

If you ask me, my definition of being able to read music is being able to sight-read - to play the music directly on your instrument, from the paper. Just like reading out loud from a book, without having to spell your way through the words.

RealMusician said:

exactly! did anyone ever teach stevie w how 2 read music? i believe it's the same 4 prince. i would love 2 know how he sees music/notes/chords etc in his mind. i would imagine he feels it as colours, pictures & emotions...
music is the language which he's modified - thrown in a bit of slang, poetry & plenty of swearing 2 make it a little bit more interesting! oh & overboard with emotion & energy..

Interesting thread thus far. It's been a while since I've been here, but I can see a few things haven't changed, namely, when it comes to authority on issues dealing with musicality, RealMusician and toejam are the guys to go to!

Like has already been mentioned, I feel Prince knows enough music theory to get along in the manner he does, which is undoubtedly very successful and, to me, as a musician and a listener, rewarding to listen to. But the theory that he knows really serves only to buttress his natural talent to work with the sound in its purest form. Several threads on here in the past have talked about some songs in which various "formal musical rules" are broken, in which, for example, the bass and the melody might be playing two pitch classes that are a semitone apart. But, by God, it works, doesn't it? Oh, and for the record, rules regarding parallel fifths went out the window long ago in pop music (as soon as the power chord was invented, I assume ).

I consider myself to be, first and foremost, an ear player. I mostly improvise when I play, and I've long been admired by my friends for my ability to play almost anything that I hear in any key. However, I did start out as a classical pianist, and I've been told by several professional music teachers while I was still in high school (I'm in college at the present) that my reading skills were "amazing," since I've become quite adept at sightreading. These two skills, though, are, as RealMusician stated earlier, are independent of each other, and they can be developed in combination or alone and neither affects the other.

I am studying to become a neuroscientist, and I can recommend several books discussing the neuroscience of music. Reading music and playing music by ear can be represented by two independent streams of information that utilize some of the same areas (motor areas and cerebellum for execution and rhythm, auditory cortex for pitch processing, etc.), but likely start at different areas (reading uses, of course, the visual cortex, while playing by ear doesn't for example). I've only read up a little bit in the last few weeks on this, but the brain really does have a varied capacity to handle music, and Prince's lack of ability to sight-read, for example, does not affect his innate talent for achieving his desired sound.

Regarding the comment about the Berklee College of Music: I live not more than a mile from there and have two roommates who go to school there. It is an amazing school, and people with the desire to learn and a certain amount of natural talent, like my roommates, can become monsters very quickly. It does not, however, make one a genius in two years of study, and Prince would not gain a single ounce of musicianship if here were to go there.

Ice9sFine said:

u make some good points.....however i feel his musicianship would get better because he wouldnt use the same scale patterns on his solos.....listen to his solos...and they pretty much all sound the same because he dont know any more

mirrorbestfriend said:

Well, but I think they sound similar because he just has a "Prince-like" sound. It's true that he may not have the harmonic inventiveness or melodic fluidity of Joe Pass or Wes Montgomery, but the guy does have his own style, and I think it works for him, ya know? I mean, I heard someone once comment on how Miles' solos all sounded the same, real "breathy," lots of "cracked notes," but that was his style, and the visceral quality of playing could not be touched!

What about Charlie Parker? His solos did tend to sound the same because of his catalog of runs that he would combine and permutate to make solos, but he is nonetheless highly regarded as a founding member of bebop. My friend and I can identify Coltrane because of a few licks that he tends to be very fond of, but damn, that guy knew how to play! A few notes and you knew it was him, his sound, his style.

People who have studied music have developed their own sound, too. Quincy is an amazing producer and the guy knows a thing or two about songwriting, that's for sure. But a genius like his and one like Prince's are hard to compare. They're just two completely different, yet equally startling, musical personalities, I feel.

Glad you joined the discussion Ice...great contribution. This thread is a breath of fresh air.

Carry on guys.

toejam said:

RealMusician said:

And again I say:

Ice9sFine said:

I SO envy you. It's my goal one day to be a great "ear" musician. I'm a great reader right now.. I've been working real hard on the ear for the past few years and it's better--but I love musicians who can do both.

O.K.--back to the thread.

pennylover said:

Thing is, he can read and write music.
He once said he couldn't in order to get people's tongues wagging.

Learning how to read music is easy.

prettymansson said:

meh
it was 'Jimmy' originally
it was his manager who changed it

[Edited 1/6/08 18:45pm]

FuNkeNsteiN said:

Exactly

mirrorbestfriend said:

its Mr.Hendrix to you..

IAintTheOne said:

no jimi i can play better than him

Yeah whoever the heck this Mirror guy is, he obviously has no sense of music...nor style. But anywho...reading music does not make you a musical genius. The chill in your spine, the goosebumps on your skin, eargerness of the eardrum...that's the type of emotion and passion that a real musician causes. Whether the are playing a solo or a beautiful melody. Prince can execute that easily. So what if he is not "classically trained", there are people that can throw down in the kitchen and then there are "appropriately trained" chefs. All I care about is how the food taste ( a good home cooked meal...lol). How it sounds is all I care about. How it makes me feel, the drive of thought and emotions is all that matters to me. Justin Timberlake, Rihanna, Lil' Wayne, Chris Brown, Usher, Spears, etc. cannot do that. The melody of "Annastesia", "Joy In Repition", "Computer Blue", "Diamonds and Pearls", etc. did not happen by accident or mere thumbing around...that's some real skill right there. A genius can move you, and Prince as well as the greats: Mr. Hendrix(who could also not read music ), Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Stevie Ray Vaughn, etc can move you. Sightreading and scales has nothing to do with that...skill is required but so is soul and emotion.

Dewrede said:

I love u Dewrede prettymansson put me in check on J I M I.