Once again Princes religious beliefs and his "Preaching" have been hitting the forum.

He obviously thinks he has "The Truth" and *by definition there can only be one "Truth" because what isn't "true" is...well False!!

So I am pondering on a couple of points...

Can you really be 100% part of a religion and NOT believe it is the Truth?

If there is only One Religious Truth* (ie the truth about who God is and what he has done / is doing) why are there so many takes on faith?

Having read this through I wonder if this may not be the place for this discussion! Hell, I'll post it anyway!

Count every human on this earth and then you know how many universes there are...

Every point of view is totally different from the other.

I like Prince's music but will not apply his sheltered views upon my own life. I wish I did not have to deal with reality sometimes but when I see what kind of things are important to him and how he deals with it, I am just happy with my own universe...

No. Only one truth. I know it, but I'm not telling !

See how sad that a Man who was So Liberal and Open has his fans saying they don't wanna be like him. That's Sad. People saying the Faith in a way Killed him as Prince. This is Terrible. I wish he would Realize it's not a Good thing. Doesn't he Realize Nobody wants to hear about the Jehovahs? Me,I don't really care because it is neither here nor there but he is getting Negative Press because of the Dogma and so is the Jehovahs and so is Larry. Nobody Deserves it. I feel sorry that he is Embracing something and no one feels his Excitement. It is because of his Former Self. That is the Problem. He was just so Bad.

gooeythehamster said:

I totally agree on that, but that doesn't mean that every person is RIGHT and that Every view is TRUE.

What if there is one truth and it is up to us to find it, and we are all going along happily thinking we can make up our own beliefs based on what makes us feel ok?

What then?!

far2young said:

As long as you do not hurt anyone while doing it...

Now that would be a perfect world...case closed.

"If there is one devilish plot in this world I'ld call it religion"

I think even Abe Lincoln wants to know where Prince hid his POSITIVTY...

(no) or (YES) ???

YOU decide...

Why are he and Larry getting bad press over it? If we live and believe freedom of speech, freedom of expression and freedom of worship (it's in the constitution) why should they get bad press.Why should it even cross our minds if we are all as liberal and open minded as we would want to belive? Sometimes I think that we are all open minded and liberal until someone disagrees with us. That's when the crunch comes. There are so many ares that this crosses- race, religion, principles, morals etc. We all have to look into ourselves and see what we are before we look at others.

Yeah, I can see where you are coming from. Most organised religions cause TROUBLE!

I can understand the philosophy of live your life, just don't hurt anyone but IF God exists, what about Him/Her?

Could we be hurting God by how we live our lives?

Could we be hurting God by not finding out what He/She wants?

Especially if there is some way of finding out what is wanted

Yes there *IS* only one Truth. What differs is our perception of that Truth, and how we choose to understand that Truth.

Prince is still the same spiritual man he always was, it's just now he has decided to follow a religion. Why? I believe it's because he is wanting to make a point. The one thing that he continues to talk about is what to call God. He has made the comment to the affect of "How are we going to agree on other things if we can't even agree on what to call God?" In order to start coming together, we have to begin agreeing somewhere. One of the places where we are so very divided is within religion. It's not really because we believe any different from other religions, but rather because we worship different from other religions. The underlying beliefs of God being all power, the almighty, and being Love are basically the same throughout all religions. What Prince is saying, let's agree on this one thing, then we can move on to other areas where we agree.

We see each religion as being different because well quite frankly because we see their "God" as being different from our God. On a higher level, we know that the God they worship and the God we worship, are the same God. On a lower level, on which many people function, we think that our God is different because heck they don't even have the same name. Once we can agree on a name for God, then we can move onto other issues and discover the sameness of other beliefs. Until we do that, we will continue to be separated as a people.

DreamLife said:

You obviously don't find that offensive, and neither do I but a lot of people in here (the org) do.

I suppose if you are genuine about finding your faith and basing it on what God wants then you will be openminded and quite willing to admit when you are wrong if new "evidence" comes up.

Know any religions like that!!?

There is NEVER only one truth! And yes, it is indeed a great showcase of childishness from Prince and his escorts to speak the way they do. And publicly.

Al Jourgensen would never do that.

That was irony.

Would you say there is never only one truth if you were being lied to?

far2young said:[quote]

DreamLife said:

Sure they are all like that. It's not the religions that are intolerant of others, but those that practice that faith. In my opinion, when someone is unsure about their own faith, they reflect that outwards towards others who do not believe as they do. Someone who is sure in their faith is not afraid to state what they believe, and not afraid to debate it. They know that their faith is strong and unshakeable. Someone who is uncertain about their faith, can not tolerate another to believe differently, because that shakes the very foundation of their own faith.

If you are looking for a religion that is openminded, then choose any of them, just be openminded yourself while practicing what you believe.

And no I don't find it offensive to agree on things that are built on Truth. Prince isn't telling people to believe as he does, but rather to find areas in which we can all agree. There are many if we're willing to look at each religion with compassion. I do think that when Prince makes comments to the effect of "if you don't believe in Jesus..." etc., that he isn't actually saying you must believe as I do or I'll have nothing to do with you, because he knows that he can't make anyone believe as he does. I think that when he says things like that, it is to get people riled up, get them talking about their own beliefs, and questioning their own beliefs, to come up with what works best for themselves. If we can't question our own belief, then we will never find tolerance for anothers.

Sure they are all like that. It's not the religions that are intolerant of others, but those that practice that faith.
Surely if you practice a faith then you belive it's teachings therefore if a member of a religion is intolerant then IF they are following the teachings correctly the religion is intolerant.

DreamLife said:

I agree that it is important to question your beliefs, and I guess thats the route of my original post.

But if a person is going to affiliate themselves with a group SURELY they should agree with its views wholeheartedly, otherwise they will be constantly in conflict with themselves, justifying their choice.

What is needed is an organisation that says "We are going to try to figure this out without any preconceptions, and if we make mistakes on the way we will be honest, admit it and try again"

Which comes back to the original point, how does God, if he is out there, view it? Surely that where we need to start.

mdiver said:

I'm sorry, but I do disagree with this. I know some very openminded Christians, and I know some very close minded ones. It is all about the faith that each holds in my opinion. Besides I think that a very open minded individual knows that it is not the teachings of the Church that they are following, but rather the teachings of "God" or of "Jesus".

To give you an example. My sister once attended a church that was very hard core in their beliefs. Women could not wear make-up, could not get their hair cut, could not wear jeans or pants of any kind but must always wear a dress. Now there were some other kids that attended that same church that would be very intolerant to others who broke those code of ethics within that church. They were very close minded.

However, the preacher overheard these kids putting another down because she wore jeans to school. The preacher took these kids aside and talked with them. Basically he told them that though they had an ethic among the church of what was and was not acceptable behavior for women, they still followed the teachings of Christ. Christ would not have put another down for the way they dress or what they wore or wether they cut their hair. The preacher told these kids that in putting this other one down for not doing what they deemed as being "right", then in essence they were even more "wrong" than the one they were putting down because they were not practicing love.

Now to me, that is an open-minded preacher who is sure of his faith. He realized that just because someone did not follow all of the ethics of their church did not make them a bad person. He did talk to the individual in question (my sister) about wearing "men's clothes" and listened to her explanation. Once she explained why she chose to wear jeans to school (it was just much easier than wearing a skirt or dress and having the boys at school run by pushing up her skirt saying "What you got on under there? Underwear!", he was more than willing to concede to her desire to wear jeans.

far2young said:

Why does God have to view it in anyway? I mean God gave us free will. In giving us free will He has given us free reign to do with our lives as we will. I don't see him placing a judgement upon what we do as he was the one that gave us free will to begin with. I mean it would be pretty petty of God to say "Okay I give you free will. You are free to choose, but if you don't choose me, then I will condemn you to hell." To me that isn't free will. And to me that isn't what God is about.

Was that preacher open minded or did he just have a better understanding of what the "church" was teaching? I am not saying that the church was correct in it's ideas on dress but if these people profess to be "Christian" then surely they should be following the teachings of Christ and the way in which the preacher appied the "golden rule" -treat others as you would expect to be treted, was correct.
In a nutshell- if you believe that a religion is the truth then you have an obligation to apply the principles of the teachings however who is perfect? The teachings could be correct but the application is less than perfect. So what or who is wrong? The teachings or the application? I would say the application.

far2young said:

You might look at Zen. Zen is of the belief that things are just what they are, no preconceptions, no ideas. You let go of the preconceptions and just live in the moment.

DreamLife said:

That is making a BIG of assumption about God!

How do you know he gave us absolute freedom? How do you know we aren't rebelling against something he built into us, or against a way of life he has told us about.

If the bible or any other religious writing is the inspired word of God as some claim then maybe there are rules and we aren't completely free!







If he made us, surely he has an opinio on how his creation should function

Actually I believe he was openminded because when my sister explained why she wore jeans, rather than telling her that it went against church code, or that it was somehow wrong, he was willing to see her point and to not pass judgement on her.

Regarding the application versus the teaching, it comes back to my statement that it is not the religion that is intolerant of others, but those that follow that religion that are not willing to bring forth anything that might make them look at their faith and just how deeply they believe. (To me we are basically saying the same thing.)

DreamLife said:

At the risk of being branded judgemental- In my opinion that is crap.
We have certain physical, emotional and spiritual limits.
Example- No preconceptions- Can I jump from my 3rd floor window and not hit the deck? No
Can I do what I want and assume I am always right? No
Are there limits to our freedom- assuming there is a higher being? You decide---(Northern Accent Required for all you Brits out there)

far2young said:

And assuming that God would have an opinion on how those are acting under his gift of free will is not an assumption?

far2young said:

Because according to the text within the Bible, God gave us free will to choose. Now the question is whether one believes the Bible is the inspired word of God. But if you look at various other religious texts, they all say the same thing. So I guess it goes back to what you believe or don't believe. And how do I know? Faith. I have faith in a God of love, not a God of judgement or a God of punishment, but a God of love. Why can we believe that God would punish us for our sins, but we can't believe that as a parent would love a child regardless of what that child does, that God cannot love us no matter what decisions we make? Are we more powerful than God that we can love when our children are bad?

far2young said:

Sure there are "rules", Do unto another as you would have another do until you. Hmmm, that is such a deep thought for God to have. I don't see where He is telling us to not do bad. I don't see where He is telling us that we will be punished for the free will that we utilize. I see Him saying, Be careful what you do, because another may do the same to you. Not that God will do the same to you, but another creature of free will.




Sure he does, He loves us no matter what we do.

The only God is REALITY. REALITY is the truth.

electricaddict said:

How very perceptive. What is real is true. Did that take a long time to work out?

mdiver said:

I won't brand you judgemental. You have your opinion, your belief, and that is what this is all about. The only limits we have are those that we place upon ourselves, the ones that we believe we have. There are monks that are able to go out into the Alps and sleep with only a sheet. Where most would experience the cold, perceive the cold, and even got frost bitten, these monks do not. They go into a deep meditative stance, and are able to slow down their own heart rates, their breathing, etc, and are able to perform this feat without anything "bad" happening to them.

There are cases where a person believed so deeply in the power of healing that they were healed of things that doctors said were incurable.

How can you explain what these occurences were? They definitely weren't limitations but rather a deeper freedom than most will ever obtain.

Of course everthing that I state are my opinions. Please don't think that I am trying to convince you to believe as I do. I would never presume to do such. I am just enjoying a great debate and I greatly appreciate your thoughts on the subject. It helps me to look deeper at my own faith.

who ever said that there's only one form of the truth? by all means, sure there's more than one...

electricaddict said:

In my opinion reality is a perception that one chooses to see. For instance, a paranoid schizophrenic going through extreme delusions sees their own reality which differs from another. Since their reality differs from another, does that make their reality any less real for them?

DreamLife said:

Lets get philosophical.
I assume that you have heard the theory of relativity.
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

If you belive in a deity that has given us freedom then we have to ask why?
If this God is all powerful then why allow us free will?
Is there something else at stake here?

Relativity applied.

Good=X
Bad=X

The question is what is good, what is bad and what is X.
If you find out let me know.

Dreamlife:

I can see what you are saying, and I don't want to make any assumptions, it would probably not be a gr8 idea whichever way you swing!

But if we assume God gave us free will and loves us no matter what we do and we are WRONG, he does judge us and expect things of us, then we may get into a bit of trouble at the "pearly gates" or whatever you believe in!

And before whatever judgement comes a worse thing (in my opinion) might happen, we might end up offending the God we claim to love so much by our slack attitude to finding out how he feels about things.

But then maybe I've answered my question...if You don't know then he can't hold you responsible.

But who would choose ignorance?