Art, music, and any form of creation are worthless unless the work is shared with other people for enjoyment/criticism.

Much of Prince's work is unheard by the masses, and even his biggest fans.

Therefore, that work is worthless.

That's why I say long live bootleggers. They provide a service to humanity, to the followers of a particular musician/band/artist. They're making what was once worthless, very worthwhile.

Personally, I think Prince has a hangup concerning most of his former work. It is of such high quality, that he can't even attempt to match it anymore. So what does he do? Deny the access to the past work, so the "new" work seems better than it is. I think Prince knows "the truth". That's why we have never seen any real quality unreleased tracks on any official release or through his own music club. All we get is "Splash" several times a year. Where's Cosmic Day? By Alien Means? Traffic Jam? Witness 4 the Prosecution? The Grand Progression? Wonderful Ass? Or songs we have never even known to exist?

Either 1) Prince knows the truth and is afraid or 2) What's truly in the vault is a lie.

Service to humanity...now even i at that, like alot in life it's not black and white, it's a service coupled with making a profit.

it's not completely worthless b/c it still holds value to him.

Sometimes artist's create things just to get them out of their system...
Not everything an artist does means he wants to share it.

It's true that Prince's rep as a valid artist in my mind was only cemented and supported by bootlegs. Otherwise I'd put him down a level into a category of attention I spend on others that are good but not incredibly so.

if prince cuts a demo in the forest, does that demo make sound?

or something like that

lspear76 said:

Don't agree at all. I like bootlegs as much as the next guy, but all art is essentially selfish. Don't flatter yourself that you have anything to do with his music being great.

It never ceases to amaze me how people seem to think they have a right to someone else's work (not only on here, although it's particularly rabid on this site).

You have a right not to like it, but that's about it.

And as for you ufoclub, which bootlegs are better than SOTT, Parade, Purple Rain & Dirty Mind?

vivid said:

I've heard there are compilation bootlegs out there like "The Work" that have gathered everything as far as studio stuff. Outside of that there are some high quality soundboard boots of rehearsals and concerts for those eras.

So, this stuff you've 'heard of' not heard, is better than those albums listed?

This may be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The fact that Prince has chosen not to share his creations with you doesn't mean they're worthless.

Perhaps there are things (like the infamous Wally) that he feels are too personal to share with the average schlub. Maybe he thinks they'll be misunderstood or misconstrued. Maybe there are creations whose moments he feels have passed. And on and on.

I write for a living. I've written a lot over the years that hasn't been published because, even though it was really fantastic and stuff that I (and others who read it) loved, it wasn't what was wanted at the moment and I just never found a place for it to go. When Prince's output was being limited by a record company, he understandably recorded a lot more than could be used. It wasn't what was wanted and he never found a place for it to go.

Sure, a lot that unreleased stuff that is amazing. But honestly, some of it has gained a mystique at this point that is totally out of proportion.

And I have to say, the sense of entitlement some people feel is quite astonishing. The fact that something wasn't released doesn't mean it's worthless.

vivid said:

bootlegs just have scattered songs, except for things like Dream Factory or Black Album (which came out anyway). Back in the day, even a song like Joy in Repetition was a bootleg track, but many fave tracks have since come out (like Joy in Repetition).

it's all in the opinion of the listener...

I think Splash is better than many songs that were included in albums from that era. (Even though Splash is released by Prince, it still is as if he is giving us a old bootleg song through bootleg means)

ufoclub said:

I think Splash is rubbish, but that is just an opinion.

Stating that you would consider Prince 'good' but not terribly so on the strengths of those albums is quite a claim. I've been into Prince for over 20 yrs so I know all about 'back in the day' and there are some great bootleg songs out there, but to claim that they make him special rather than the stuff he released between '80 and '88 is in my opinion, nonsense.

I know Prince doesn't like bootlegs but me, I've spend a fortune on bootlegs the past 20 years. In Barcelona, all these shops were full with the coolest looking bootlegs, it's just for an addictive, purple coolaid drinking Prince fanatic . The last few years they are free.... and to be honest, no shop has Prince bootlegs anymore.

If they were legal I would have paid him but they weren't.
I have too many bootlegs and I'm sure that 70% are unknown songs to you but they are out there so not worthless and I think I'm not the only one having all these unknown songs.
There are so extreme many bootlegs, I really don't know any title of the songs, and I haven't listened to half of it, e.g. The Work 1 - 7, I must have it 1,5 years already, others are even older.

And for you thinking these songs are bad, well, some of them are precious jewels and some of them just stink, also because of the bad quality. Some of them seem as if an engineer recorded them in a studio with a taperecorder secretly hidden in his pants and then sold them.

It's really up to Prince to do whatever he wants to do with his music, I find Genesia has a real good point.
I'm just really thankfull to have had the chance to buy these bootlegs and enjoy them.

vivid said:

well that's your mind's workings, mine was only keenly interested after hearing the likes of joy in repetition, black album, moviestar, place in heaven, all my dreams, old friends for sale.

As far as his regular albums, the tracks that interested me just as much were: Tambourine, Condition of the Heart, SOTT, housequake, If I was your Girlfriend, mountains,shockedelica, under the cherry moon...
[Edited 11/25/07 1:57am]

Anxiety said:

I'm tired of your belly-aching! If you want to go, C YA! Damn.

Snap said:

i am sorry u are leaving/ i hope for u that you dont surrender as quickly to love as you do this silly thing

wlcm2thdwn said:

Get out of here if it's that bad.

lspear76 said:

I'm sorry... but this the dumbest statement I've read all week.

Obviously you are not an artist... and if you are... you're likely not very good because you would be doing it for the wrong reasons.

Art is personal. Art is a form of expression. Art is a creation from the mind, body and spirit and this alone gives it value... if to no one else than the creator him/herself.

Wether you choose to share it with others is optional.. not a requisite for value.

This is largely why so much music now-a-days isn't very good... because 'so-called' artist try to hard to make music to appeal to the masses rather than making music that appeals or is true to themselves first


Bootlegs of Prince's music are nice... but I was a fan long before they came into fashion. Pre Sign O' the Times era there just wasn't much available... and more than that... not many fans knew they even existed.

ufoclub said:

it was like that for me,too.i wanted to start a thread like this also.something like "hurray for bootlegs" or something.it's his music he can do what he wants with it.to say that half of his music is worthless(even with the unreleased stuff)is crazy.or to call him selfish when he's put out more albums than just about any other artist.i love some of the unreleased tracks as much(if not more sometimes)than the released ones.and dislike a few also(just like the released ones).

QuakeXLE said:

Art is personal, but in reality it is completely worthless unless others experience it. Who said what reason I'd be creating art for? I didn't. You fail to read my statement completely...

But I disagree... if "art" is a form of expression, a creation from the mind, body, and spirit (non existent, by the way), what good is it unless it's heard?
Sure, it can be worthwhile to the creator, but nobody else. And what good is that if it's not let out for all humanity to experience? No good.

Genesia said:

Oh, I see, you're a (great) writer and you've written fantastic stuff that hasn't been released. I'm sure your sons or best buds think it's "fantastic." But really, come on.

lspear76 said:

You know you're an asshole right?
no really?
How could you say something like that?
Do you know anything about being a writer artist?
No!
so shut...
The...
fuck... Up
Whiny fucking maggots
I detest Prince for many reasons...
but not releasing songs, isn't one of them...

lspear76 said:

Spoken like someone who's never created anything -- let alone anything for which he's gotten paid. You obviously don't understand the business of it all.

Which...hmmm...kinda makes your comments completely worthless. Doesn't it?

QuakeXLE said:

I completely agree.

Of course, it falls on deaf ears...

lspear76 said:

But since no-one can agree on just which half that is, I guess it's all worthy to someone or another.

happyhappy said:

Hmmmmm, the stuff he's done since becoming a JW maybe valuable to him, but i doubt his earlier, edgy, risque stuff means anything to him at all now....