lspear76 said:

You back up one idiotic statement with another. You definately have never created a thing in your life... either that or everything you created people told you it wasn't shit.

To be frank... most true artist will tell you that what they create comes mainly from thier inner being... thier soul... thier spirit... thier higher conciousness... thier essence... thier blood, sweat and tears.... thier God... what ever you want to call it.... what ever your personal beleifs... it's all mostly somantic, meaning is virtually the same.

And as a receiver of an artistic gift weither its music, a poem painting, whatever and it 'moves' you in some way... if it draws from you some emotional response... if you feel that its 'inspired' then that means that you have connected with it on some higher level.

The process of creation... the process behind making ART.... cannot be defined like some scientific theory. It is a metaphysical existential experience which can blow your fucking mind away if you had one.

No one... and I mean no one needs others to validate what they have created.

If I make a baby... do I have to tell you about it.. or even show you my child for that child to be worth something to me....? The creation was personal... the love I have for my child is personal. I do not need the world's approval to validate that child.

For an artist... they put a little piece of themselves into everything they create, That alone gives it worth.

Thats like... if I came into your home and saw some f'd up looking painting hanging on the fridge.... does the fact that I think its f'd up.... take away from the worth it has to you because your daughter made it for 'daddy'? Does it take away from its worth to her? If you had put it on your desk instead of on the fridge would it have had less worth because fewer people would see it? I don't think so. Sure your daughter would have been proud that you put it on the fridge for all to see. Becasue you see.. she's a child and children often desire some sort of praise and acknowledgement of things they creat. If I actually told her that it loked f'd up... not only would I be an ass... but I would break her spirit. But I wouldn't do that.

You may take a picture of your mother right before she dies and walk around with it in your wallet all of the time. Does it hold less worth because you don't whip it out to everybody at every chance you get? And if you do.... would what I think about this picture you took of your mother matter...? Would what I say have anything to do with its worth? does showing it to me suddenly give it worth?

Just because something is shared does not give it worth... it can actually taint what worth it had to an artist... if they are sensitive like that. There fore some things may not be meant to share. As I said.. art is a form of expression. Sometimes what is expressed isn't meant for every one to share. Artist often create in order to get things out of thier heads... to ease thier spirits. Writers often carry journals of thier most intimte thoughts.... it certainly holds value...worth to them. If you get one good book out of them fine. But the writings they don't publish is pricelsss.... to them.

Of course many people who are incapable of any sort of creative expresion themselves... and some... well... other selfish people in general... don't understand the difference between what is personal and meaningful to an artist and would rather rape them of thier ideas and creations for thier own personal pleasures.

This type of person is what you seam like. You have no respect for artistic creation. To suggest that what an artist creates has no worth because he won't share it with you is selfish and ignorant. Who are you to validate the worth of someones persoanl creations...who...?

QuakeXLE said:

Yeah.....everything QuakeXLE said.

But i also think that some people would define some scientific theories as art too.

So, the real question is "WHAT IS ART?"

I bet most of you (except for QuakeXLE of course) couldn't even try to give a succinct defnition (without citing examples). You know why? Becuase it's fucking hard to define what art really is. And to state that art is "worthless" means that you have given it a commercial value to begin with.

So....Ispear76....here is a suggestion.....get rid of the half of the Prince collection that you dislike or think is worthless, and so you will love your whole Prince collection.

I have said it before and i will say it again. Prince fans are amongst the most spoilt and the most selfish of any musician. And to those most selfish amongst you....i wish you 1000 PFUnk's, because i suspect those that dislike that song are the same ones that think that song is about them.
Some of you really have to stop and be greatful (enjoy, even) of the music that Prince HAS released over the last 30 years....instead of being bitter and twisted about the stuff he hasn't.

IF A TREE FALLS IN A FOREST AND NOBODY HEARS IT>>>DOES IT MAKE A SOUND.....


Just because we dont hear it, does NOT make it worthless. What a silly thing to say. It might be worth something to him..
And obviously it means something to u even though u may never have never heard any of that music or why else would u be bringing it up?
[Edited 11/26/07 2:27am]

maybe a better way of wording the sentiments of this thread is "much of prince's music isn't done justice", because a lot of the excellent unreleased material doesn't get the recognition it deserves outside of the circles of fans who have heard studio bootleg material.

this thread reminds me of one of my favorite books, "a confederacy of dunces" by john kennedy toole. the guy died before any of his work was published, but his mother found his manuscripts and had them published. the man lived in total obscurity, and now "a confederacy of dunces" is considered a modern classic. the book was just as brilliant when he was alive and had it stashed in a drawer. the world just didn't know it yet. if it was useless, his mother wouldn't have worked so hard to get it published.

j.d. salinger is supposed to have a house full of unpublished manuscripts which he allegedly writes solely for his own entertainment. is that worthless? it could be bad writing, we don't know. but if it's keeping him pleasantly distracted, then how worthless is it?

For a second, I thought this was a criticism of his 90's output and everything since the conversion... phew... that makes me feel a little better. I did not want to have to fight about that.

Still, that's a little harsh, don't you think?

I mean... so what if the contents of the vault will never be heard by Prince or the engineers working at the studio at the time?
Prince wrote all of his songs for a reason... or else why write them at all?

Just his way of expressing him.
There are probably several who would agree that they use their artform to get their feelings out into the open and sort them out. I write poetry and fiction myself. I'm working on eventually getting what I wrote published one of these days, but nothing is worthless if you've put your heart & soul into them. That makes it a success itself. I've written a couple of things that won't see the light of day because I wrote them for my own entertainment (much like someone said about JD Salinger, actually)... still means something to me though.

And that's just my point here.
Even if the contents of the vault don't see the light of day, they meant something to Prince at one time and he locked them away because he was probalby past a project where they could have worried. It comes with his prolific nature.

In the beginning, before Prince even had a record deal, he was writing music for himself. He used his God-given talents for his own enjoyment and I believe he still writes for the reason aside from making the albums to be sold for profit.

They're not worthless as long as they still mean/meant something to the artist that created them.

PurpleKnight said:

What if someone said,"Bootlegs saved my life!"

Anxiety said:

Dammitt!!! That's like the 4th time that I've had to clean coffee off my monitor & keyboard.

I reckon the stuff we've heard is generally better than the stuff we haven't heard.

Even without the vault, Prince has a pretty impressive catalog.

Non-sense.

it has pained me hearing certain official songs released and knowing that gems remain in the vault. i would take hearing gems like i wonder, uh huh over the bullshit that have been 3 chains of gold, all the midnights in the world.

the perfect vehicle would b 2 release them as jam of the week instead of rehased shit like splash and as much as I love i wish u heaven remix, the vaults should b unleased 2 the masses.

Popularity doesn't equal worth. As long as it's good music, it's worth something.

The stuff in the vault is only as worthless as anyone's life's moments that aren't in the public spotlight.

what a weird thing 2 suggest

i'm overwhelmed by what prince has achieved! wether i like it or not i would never rate it worthless.

i would rate this thread as pretty worthless - a load of barry white

I fully agree but the other half is more than enough to make him of the greatest pop music geniuses ever...

What will remain will be his greatest achievements, not the crap (same thing for Stevie or James for instance, same for Miles....etc...)

lspear76 said:

I totally agree with you on this one 100%.

i think anyone involved with art therapy would find this thread incredibly depressing.

chillichocaholic said:[quote]IF A TREE FALLS IN A FOREST AND NOBODY HEARS IT>>>DOES IT MAKE A SOUND.....


think you're getting into big philosophical questions here - can't even begin to answer this question

ritaw said:[quote]

chillichocaholic said:

it's actually a very valid and relevent question. if prince recorded a far superior version of your favorite album of his, but kept it under wraps in his vault so that none of us even knew about it, would that new album version REALLY be superior? who could judge other than prince? and is it okay if he wants to be the only judge/listener of his recordings? why not create some art solely for yourself?

Anxiety said:

I know I do it all the time. But people who require external gratification because they are void of any creative impulses themselves.... will never understand that.

QuakeXLE said:

most of the creative things i work on these days are solely for myself. it's just a way of getting ideas out of my head, then i can go back and see what i do and don't like about it, then i either keep working on it or i move on to some other idea. but the big part is getting an idea out of my head on to a piece of paper or into a word file. it doesn't matter if it sells or publishes or gets into the hands of lots of people. when i want the masses to see something i've done, i will let them know.

not every creative person needs to want stardom or mass recognition.

Why can't people just leave without announcing it, cause they change they're name and come back.

wlcm2thdwn said:

wait, what thread is this?

wlcm2thdwn said:

It's a way for insecure people to get a brief moment of attention.

Prince doesn't like bootlegz..unless its JAMES BROWN!!!!

Bawhawhawawawwawwwww!

Though Prince is indeed maddening there is a logical reason why Prince does what he does. Fans just can't understand it, or choose not too. A lot of writers and musicians have what i like to call a Dickinson complex. Which is a reserved personal connection to their work. Emily Dickinson wrote, nearly 2,000 poems and had them locked away in a chest in her room. It wasn't until her sister found them after she died, that they were published and praised. Lets face facts here, Prince doesn't write for us, he doesn't sing for us, and he doesn't play for us. He plays for himself. Most musicians are like this. The only reason he does release his stuff, is to get money. That's all. And there's nothing wrong with that. And if he writes and composes for himself, is it that strange that he would want to lock to it away? No... it's his personal property Each song written and composed is laced with his own personal feelings.
This onslaught against bootleggers isn't about money, or trying to put fans in jail, or even reclaiming the internet. It's about protecting what's dear to him. Do i support his actions? No, but I understand where he's coming from. Prince doesn't see bootleggers as a threat to his monetary gain, he's already established that he can sustain a career with just performing, He sees the bootlegging as a sign of a disrespect for his personal work and for his feelings.

EmbattledWarrior said:

i think ur spot on when u suggest he's creating purely 4 himself, but performance as well is surely part of his art? he needs an audience 2 conclude his work!
an audience will give him his drive at tht moment in time & everyone needs positive feedback.. !
i think 2 suggest he doesnt gain anything except money from an audience is a bit daft. he's clearly an attention fiend & loves high dramaa.

my gut feeling is tht he's got something tht he knows is incredible stashed away, & one day he will get a lot of pleasure in presenting it 2 us.
either tht, or i think he'll end up burning whteva he's got just 2 keep us guessing!

can u imagine, 'the prince conspiricies'

Yes, i'm sure of that. I'm convinced he has material that would equal or eclspse any of his previous work. And I think he still has it in him to produce a No.1 album and a No.1 track. It's just a case of motivation.

Sadly tho, the best of a genius is only seen when they R gone.

EmbattledWarrior said:

Wow... it's almost like we share a brain here. I completely agree with you.

This reminds me of one of those questions I'd ask him if I could.
"Aside from making money, if your music is so personal, why do you insist on sharing it and performing it for others?"

It's unbelievable sometimes that he released tracks like Automatic, Temptation and the like because they seem like songs he's written where he's going through something and trying to find answers for himself. Why would he share them, then?

Then there's the concept of "The Black Album." According to the Purple Reign interview done in 2003 with people who've worked with him... actually, I think it was Chaka Khan that said that he might have said too much on the album and the reason he pulled was because it was overly personal to him. Could have been that or the ectasy story... unless we ask him ourselves, we'll never really know the truth about that.

But I believe that first and foremost, Prince has always written music for himself... it's his way of "going through the motions" and solving personal conflicts within himself when he has them. You know how he seems so quiet in person... music is the only way he really knows how to express his true feelings about whatever. Instead of keeping his feelings bottled up, he uses music to express them. So in a way, I think music is like therapy for him too.

Everything he's written meant something to him at some point and as long as one person, the creator, believes something holds value, it's not worthless.