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Printableelectricaddict said: DreamLife said: electricaddict said: I don't agree. Reality is reality. We have perceptions or thoughts which can distort or make up lies about what's really going on. I agree that people such as schizophrenics see their own reality, but it's their own reality, not reality. I'd even say that you don't even have to have a definable mental illness to be way out of touch with reality!! Reality or the TRUTH is distorted by people's beliefs, expectations, judgements etc. Check yourself for all these, verify if they're true or false and then reality or the truth reveals itself. For example, the TRUTH is that right now I'm typing these words out on my computer and at some time you are now reading them. That's the truth. How do you define reality? Reality is the facts of what I'm experiencing. At the moment I'm sitting in a computer centre typing this message out. There's 12 other people in here with me and I'm wearing black shoes, black trousers and a blue top. The woman working here has just asked everyone to save their work because teh centre closes in 5 minutes. I'm feeling a bit sad and unhappy at the moment. these are all facts of reality which I can verify as true at the moment. | |
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DreamLife said: "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God?" Where else would God reside but within His own temple?
"Ye are gods". What is the deeper truth to this statement? Was God saying that we are God? "All this and more will ye do" Jesus stated this. (These aren't exact quotes because I don't have my Bible with me.) Jesus made this comment saying that we would do all the things that he himself had done, and so much more. How can we raise the dead? We are mere mortals, not gods. Though God and Jesus seemed to believe in us so much more than we ourselves believe in us. DreamLife, you're preachin'! Woohoo! The empowering attribute of God! How often does the Bible talk about the power accessible to the followers of Christ? It's an exciting topic. | |
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mdiver said: The way I see love is this.
There will always be a conflict between how much we love ourselves and how much we love another. When this arises who comes first. Are we true to ourselves or do we lovingly put the other person first? However it will always work if we follow this: I love you so much that I will always put you first and the other person beleives I also love you so much that I will always put you first This way if I am prepared to put you first and you are prepared to put me first then we are both being unselfish and will do nothing to hurt the other.I know it is idealistic but I am a believer in good people. However I also beleive that selfishness is a for of god in itself. If you put yourself first always you set yourself up as your own god. I guess I see it more this way...I love you so much that I will be true to myself (not in a selfish manner) so that you will always know it is me you love and not an idea. When I say being true to yourself, I do not mean putting yourself first necessarily, but rather being true to your higher self. Your higher self will always act and react out of love, for that is what your higher self is. The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly. ~ Richard Bach "Illusions" | |
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electricaddict said: Reality is the facts of what I'm experiencing. At the moment I'm sitting in a computer centre typing this message out. There's 12 other people in here with me and I'm wearing black shoes, black trousers and a blue top. The woman working here has just asked everyone to save their work because teh centre closes in 5 minutes. I'm feeling a bit sad and unhappy at the moment. these are all facts of reality which I can verify as true at the moment.
Tell me, how do you know what you are perceiving is really happening and not just a dream? I'm sorry you are sad and unhappy. Please take care and remember, this is a new moment.  The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly. ~ Richard Bach "Illusions" | |
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ThreadBare said: By necessity, there can be only one truth. The whole concept of truth involves the separation of comparable things.
So, if there is one truth, everything else must be false. And, from my experiences in life, I can tell ya: Jesus Christ, as described in the Bible, is the Truth, the One Truth, God's Word made flesh. Now, this Truth doesn't preclude people who don't fit the traditional "Christian mold" from accepting and living by Him. One thing my pastor preaches is that Muslims can love and follow Jesus, as can Hindus and whoever else. The person's cultural context doesn't matter as much as their relationship with Him as Savior and saved. That is very wonderful of your pastor. Not all pastors preach that though. To what do you accredit the differing teachings of those that follow the Christian path? The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly. ~ Richard Bach "Illusions" | |
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DreamLife said: SweeTea said: There is only one truth and it has nothing to do with religion. Religion has caused more hate among us than anything else. The events going on here and in the Middle East speak for themselves and is evidence of religion gone wild. The truth can be found in St. Matthew 19:19
...Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. Even if there were no Bible, human nature should dictate that we at least be civil to each other and try to live among each other without destoying ourselves and this beautiful planet the Creator has given us. Religions are not what divide, but those that worship in fear are what divide instead. But I agree with your sentiment. Very beautifully stated. Thank you.
I dream that one day my children will live in a world where we won't have to have this discussion. "Use this tool to control the masses w/guaranteed success: Divide/Conquer =>No Communication cuz we are Divided =>Misunderstanding cuz we don't Communicate =>We can't Agree we only Misunderstand =>Chaos cuz we can't Agree. Chaos-an evil tool indeed!" | |
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DreamLife said: God is love. Total and unconditional love does not need principles, because everything that one would do within that love would be done in love.
This is so very true. "Use this tool to control the masses w/guaranteed success: Divide/Conquer =>No Communication cuz we are Divided =>Misunderstanding cuz we don't Communicate =>We can't Agree we only Misunderstand =>Chaos cuz we can't Agree. Chaos-an evil tool indeed!" | |
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Man gotta go, but this is really a thought provoking thread. When I have time I will return to it and read it in it's entirety. Thanks guys! "Use this tool to control the masses w/guaranteed success: Divide/Conquer =>No Communication cuz we are Divided =>Misunderstanding cuz we don't Communicate =>We can't Agree we only Misunderstand =>Chaos cuz we can't Agree. Chaos-an evil tool indeed!" | |
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SweeTea said: I dream that one day my children will live in a world where we won't have to have this discussion.
Read my signature.
SweeTea said: Man gotta go, but this is really a thought provoking thread. When I have time I will return to it and read it in it's entirety. Thanks guys!
And thank you SweeTea. Peace be yours always!The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly. ~ Richard Bach "Illusions" | |
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DreamLife said: ThreadBare said: By necessity, there can be only one truth. The whole concept of truth involves the separation of comparable things.
So, if there is one truth, everything else must be false. And, from my experiences in life, I can tell ya: Jesus Christ, as described in the Bible, is the Truth, the One Truth, God's Word made flesh. Now, this Truth doesn't preclude people who don't fit the traditional "Christian mold" from accepting and living by Him. One thing my pastor preaches is that Muslims can love and follow Jesus, as can Hindus and whoever else. The person's cultural context doesn't matter as much as their relationship with Him as Savior and saved. That is very wonderful of your pastor. Not all pastors preach that though. To what do you accredit the differing teachings of those that follow the Christian path? Thanks, he is a remarkable man. As to differences, part of it might be attributed to human nature: Some people insist on worshiping God with others who resemble them (whether physically, mentally, socially, etc). It's human nature to draw lines in the sand with God -- "I'll follow and surrender to You in this area, but You can't touch this over here" -- be it sex, money, what we say, murder, our relationship with our rulers/government, the consumption of substances, family life, work ethic, etc. Over time, divisions have emerged along these lines and more, not to mention class and race. That's human nature, but the Christ of the Bible seems more concerned with getting us to grow past our human natures and to rediscover our God-given one through His Spirit. And, that's my daily struggle. | |
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To find truth, you have to brave enough to look inside yourself and recognize the ugly and the distorted perception you have towards the outside, because your "inside" is in shambles.
When you show Courage -- God shows himself to you. You just have to listen. those are my thoughts anyway. Truth is in the telling. So what are you telling us?  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Obtuse, Cerbrally Enphytotic Atrophied Nimrod Also known as....  | |
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ThreadBare said: Thanks, he is a remarkable man.
As to differences, part of it might be attributed to human nature: Some people insist on worshiping God with others who resemble them (whether physically, mentally, socially, etc). It's human nature to draw lines in the sand with God -- "I'll follow and surrender to You in this area, but You can't touch this over here" -- be it sex, money, what we say, murder, our relationship with our rulers/government, the consumption of substances, family life, work ethic, etc. Over time, divisions have emerged along these lines and more, not to mention class and race. That's human nature, but the Christ of the Bible seems more concerned with getting us to grow past our human natures and to rediscover our God-given one through His Spirit. And, that's my daily struggle. Not many look to what Christ was attempting to do, but rather look to what they feel about it or believe about it. Within certain beliefs there is what is called a Christ Consciousness. It amazes me the religions and beliefs that are willing to accept Christ, but not many Christian religions are willing to accept another religion or belief. I commend you for being so open. The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly. ~ Richard Bach "Illusions" | |
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nLA said: To find truth, you have to brave enough to look inside yourself and recognize the ugly and the distorted perception you have towards the outside, because your "inside" is in shambles.
When you show Courage -- God shows himself to you. You just have to listen. those are my thoughts anyway. Truth is in the telling. So what are you telling us? I believe that when one looks within, they discover the beauty of who they are, and of which everyone is. I also believe that they discover the illusion of separation between self, God, and others. I do agree that when you are willing to face the Truth within with Courage, that God will show himself. LOL ~ I'm not telling you anything, just sharing what I believe and listening to what others believe. Listen deeply nLA, because the Truth is all around and within everything you see, hear, think, and do. But I believe you already know that.The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly. ~ Richard Bach "Illusions" | |
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There is one religion though there are a hundred verions of it.. George Bernard Shaw The purpose that we were born,
is 2 b the living truth N human form. TRC | |
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Bast said: The purpose that we were born,
is 2 b the living truth N human form. YES!!! The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly. ~ Richard Bach "Illusions" | |
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DreamLife said: nLA said: To find truth, you have to brave enough to look inside yourself and recognize the ugly and the distorted perception you have towards the outside, because your "inside" is in shambles.
When you show Courage -- God shows himself to you. You just have to listen. those are my thoughts anyway. Truth is in the telling. So what are you telling us? I believe that when one looks within, they discover the beauty of who they are, and of which everyone is. I also believe that they discover the illusion of separation between self, God, and others. I do agree that when you are willing to face the Truth within with Courage, that God will show himself. LOL ~ I'm not telling you anything, just sharing what I believe and listening to what others believe. Listen deeply nLA, because the Truth is all around and within everything you see, hear, think, and do. But I believe you already know that.Heh, heh. "So what are telling us" .. was pretty much a rhetorical question! But I am pleased you answered it!
Although I agree with what you've said, I do think that you have to weed out our twistedness and unscramble, polish it up (cuz it was purdy the whole time) and put it back in to really get the mechanism goin'. I cant tell if I'm talking about a car or my soul!  but you get the analogy! (I hope) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Obtuse, Cerbrally Enphytotic Atrophied Nimrod Also known as.... | |
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nLA said: Heh, heh. "So what are telling us" .. was pretty much a rhetorical question! But I am pleased you answered it! LOL well you never know!
nLA said: Although I agree with what you've said, I do think that you have to weed out our twistedness and unscramble, polish it up (cuz it was purdy the whole time) and put it back in to really get the mechanism goin'.
I cant tell if I'm talking about a car or my soul! but you get the analogy! (I hope) I believe that it's not necessarily a matter of weeding them out (though I guess that would be a good description) as much as it is of letting go of our own perceived ideas about ourselves. One thing that I believe is that our soul is perfect in and of itself. It is the purest of energies. It is beauty defined. Our soul cannot be tainted. For it is the manifestation of ourselves within the Godhead. What interfers with our rememberance of oneness within all things, is the belief that we are separate. It is the belief that we are bad. It is the belief that we are imperfect. Many people will state that they believe that we are a part of God, and yet those same people will go on to explain how we are not perfect. Can any aspect of God be imperfect? Does God make mistakes within His creation? There are holes in people's beliefs. It is once they bring together all aspects of their belief, when they realign the contradictory thinking that they are prone to, that one becomes "whole" or "holy". It is also our definition of perfection that needs to be reassessed. The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly. ~ Richard Bach "Illusions" | |
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Prince's mind is closed tighter than his "Vault". If prince.org were to be made idiot proof, someone would just invent a better idiot. | |
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Hey! Where did all U intelligent people come from?
Where have you been? Welcome, welcome, welcome!!!:wOOt: So...how's everybody doing? | |
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No there is not just one truth there are many. | |
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Wow! I missed a great discussion.  But to go ahead and add my 2 cents, there is only One Truth. All else is an illusion. | |
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Not to 99.9% of religions... 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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If u want the answer 1st figure out if perception is reality!! Or if leading by your feelings is manipulative Then the truth my dear orgers will unfold subsequently ... oooh what a knowledge spree hehe
... [This message was edited Wed Oct 16 15:13:21 PDT 2002 by harmony] Got Gackt??!  
J-Rock ME 2 Death!  + = | |
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DreamLife said: The one thing that he continues to talk about is what to call God. He has made the comment to the affect of "How are we going to agree on other things if we can't even agree on what to call God?" In order to start coming together, we have to begin agreeing somewhere...What Prince is saying, let's agree on this one thing, then we can move on to other areas where we agree. The problem with this is that collectively there will NEVER be an agreement on this particular subject. Those of Christian faith believe Jesus to be God manifest in the flesh and thus address their prayers to him. Muslims believe in Allah, thus addressing their prayers accordingly and on and on. The problem with Prince even bringing up this subject is the fact that as a Jehovah's Witness, Prince is REQUIRED to use the name "Jehovah" when addressing God in fellowship, prayer or witness to non-believers. I have debated this issue many many times and the way it has always been explained to me is that unless a person addresses God with his proper name, "Jehovah" then prayers are futile as God requires that you show your respect to him by using his "name". This is the most ridiculous line of reasoning. What happens if someone isn't exposed to the "truth" of being required to use the name Jehovah in addressing God? Are you going to tell me that God will ignore the pleas of that person simply because they didn't address him properly? Think about it, can God be that petty? The problem with most religions is that most people are too busy stopped at the side of the road reading the rules and bickering over them that they forget they need to be walking the path of righteousness instead of just talking about it. 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: DreamLife said: The one thing that he continues to talk about is what to call God. He has made the comment to the affect of "How are we going to agree on other things if we can't even agree on what to call God?" In order to start coming together, we have to begin agreeing somewhere...What Prince is saying, let's agree on this one thing, then we can move on to other areas where we agree. The problem with this is that collectively there will NEVER be an agreement on this particular subject. Those of Christian faith believe Jesus to be God manifest in the flesh and thus address their prayers to him. Muslims believe in Allah, thus addressing their prayers accordingly and on and on. The problem with Prince even bringing up this subject is the fact that as a Jehovah's Witness, Prince is REQUIRED to use the name "Jehovah" when addressing God in fellowship, prayer or witness to non-believers. I have debated this issue many many times and the way it has always been explained to me is that unless a person addresses God with his proper name, "Jehovah" then prayers are futile as God requires that you show your respect to him by using his "name". This is the most ridiculous line of reasoning. What happens if someone isn't exposed to the "truth" of being required to use the name Jehovah in addressing God? Are you going to tell me that God will ignore the pleas of that person simply because they didn't address him properly? Think about it, can God be that petty? The problem with most religions is that most people are too busy stopped at the side of the road reading the rules and bickering over them that they forget they need to be walking the path of righteousness instead of just talking about it. So so so ... TRUE
"Unless a person addresses God with his proper name, "Jehovah" then prayers are futile"... I mean come on ... why in the 1st place would any1 even call 2 a God if he is just as bias as we can b, just praise in the name of ur irritating narrow minded next door neighbor & tad da equal results guaranteed ... hehe im not trying 2 insult but i seriously think they miss the point with purpose on that 1 ... lol ...  ...
& damn im sorry but somehow I dont think God is 2 b a force of dictation, how would we get anywhere with that as “a people”??? ... so why dictate 2 him or the cause by manifesting silly rules of action, why restrict any means of getting closer 2 a spiritual uplifting?? ... kinda defeats the purpose of freedom, choice, faith ... occurrence & ummm living doesnt it ... ugh ... lol ... people need 2 stop dissecting the bible & fanatically interpreting it 2 justify the faults of their religions & themselves ... just live without hurting any1 ... is it so hard 2 fathom ... :p Got Gackt??!
J-Rock ME 2 Death! += | |
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That depends on what side you are on. | |
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Everybody has his own truth. So when there is more then 1 truth, then what does the truth mean? Truth means that u honest,when u tell the truth u honest. So when i say i dont believe in religions or god then i tell the truth,cause i dont believe it.
When a person who believes in religions and god tell they believe in god then they tell the truth. So we both tell the truth,but we dont agree. So what does the truth mean? Does the truth help us come together? I dont think so. This whole truth thing might cause the whole disagreement, since we all have our own truth. free ur mind | |
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DreamLife said: ThreadBare said: Thanks, he is a remarkable man.
As to differences, part of it might be attributed to human nature: Some people insist on worshiping God with others who resemble them (whether physically, mentally, socially, etc). It's human nature to draw lines in the sand with God -- "I'll follow and surrender to You in this area, but You can't touch this over here" -- be it sex, money, what we say, murder, our relationship with our rulers/government, the consumption of substances, family life, work ethic, etc. Over time, divisions have emerged along these lines and more, not to mention class and race. That's human nature, but the Christ of the Bible seems more concerned with getting us to grow past our human natures and to rediscover our God-given one through His Spirit. And, that's my daily struggle. Not many look to what Christ was attempting to do, but rather look to what they feel about it or believe about it. Within certain beliefs there is what is called a Christ Consciousness. It amazes me the religions and beliefs that are willing to accept Christ, but not many Christian religions are willing to accept another religion or belief. I commend you for being so open. Thanks, just know that I, too, believe the journey must begin with accepting Christ and maintaining a relationship with Him, regardless of a person's cultural or religious context. Just as He remains the focus, His personality remains both the goal and the reward. Make sense? | |
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squirrelgrease said: Prince's mind is closed tighter than his "Vault".
Just because people believe something different to you it does not mean they are closed minded. The only peerson here that seems to have demonstrated a lack of willingness to see the views of others is ...well you decide, I think your comment above speaks for itself. | |
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If absolute truth can in fact exist, why deny it?
Truth is absolute and continues 2 thrive despite false hope and affectionate lies when buried -- He rises when twisted -- unwinds Truth is not relative and is subject to no man. --- "Ice cubes on a red hot stove will melt... a drowning man's very first word is help... if u bet on a horse and the horse don't win, u lose... if u try 2 sit on air, u'r gonna fall... take a car without fuel, ain't gonna move... a carpenter can't build his house without his tools... if the shoes r 2 small they hurt ur feet... u can't know what's going on if u'r asleep..." = Funkadelic's I Bet You | |
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