I’ve read almost every thread here and this is what I’ve managed to figure out:

PRINCE (according to statements – the brutha ain’t called me yet):

1) My creation, my ability to release WHEN I want, HOW I want.. I sought freedom from WB for this reason alone. To gain complete sovereign control for MY product.
2) Bootleggers steal and profit from my product without any authorization. It is a crime under the laws of man and God. (for dramatic effect)

BOOTLEGGERS’ SIDE: (based on my own meanderings - but seriously, do criminals get a side? lol)

1) We are “helping” out the fans by exposing them to *amazing music* that may possibly never be released.
2) We make a profit from stealing. (Well don’t they?!?! Sheeeaaaht!)
3) We help keep his fan base alive, Prince should be thanking us!

FANs WHO BUY BOOTS: (from excerpts of comments here on the org)

1) I will pay whatever the amount of a bootleg because Prince may never release the material and why should I go on the rest of my life without his music? If he leaves this world who will manage the Estate? I cant live my life without new unreleased music! (A little melodramatic but you get the point ).
2) I would not buy a bootleg if Prince RELEASED more music. Like he promised. Like he was supposed to after leaving WB.
3) My purchasing bootlegs keeps me interested in Prince…. Or else I would be stuck with the crap he puts out, when I KNOW there’s more brilliant music to be had!!
4) Since the NPGMC sucks and I never know when I can rely on Prince for new music, I know my local bootlegger, although expensive, can meet my music fix/needs in a timely manner.
5) I pay Prince’s bills by going to his shows and buying his albums, and concert paraphernalia. I have the right to do with my money as I please and that includes buying from bootleggers.


So here is what I don’t get:

1) If you support Prince as an artist --- don’t buy the contraband, period. I think there is validity to the statement he is making about ownership and rights and illegal use of his creative work. Don’t you?

Prince says to the fans: (per a thread here) don’t buy bootlegs and the bootleggers will die out (paraphrased). Well, why would you want to help Prince? You either do – or you don’t based on your own judgment. Can Prince honestly chastise folks for wanting more of his product, albeit unrealeased? Yes. Is he a prick for doing so? I mean, after all you’ve done for him? No. Do you have to do what Prince says? No. Dammit, do I gotta be like Jimminy Cricket and tell you “let your conscience be your guide? Lol. I guess so.

2) If you don’t give a flying rat’s booty juice about Prince -- continue to purchase --- but why be all up in arms if Prince makes statements that condemn you for buying the product? If you don’t care enough for him, but you care enough to buy his stolen product, why care what he says about ppl who purchase bootlegs? No Comprendo!

Many people say that Prince “owes” us. Such and such’s fans don’t get treated the way we do bla bla bla! Well if Such and Such were as talented as Prince, they could fling poo at them and rest assured the fans would come back for more! (lol). Seriously, what are you going to do? I think he’s been pretty cool about letting people approach him at shows, being friendlier, allowing a more intimate purview. I know when I tried to get tix for his show from my friend that worked at WB at the time, his answer was “We cant even get tix for the big wigs. Prince likes his fans to have all the good seats”. Now -- he may like you to have the good seats at two-fiddy a pop, but hey! You can’t say the brutha wasn’t thinkin’ ‘bout us. (or at least his wallet) – you can look at it either way.

3) My only semi-stewed beef with NPGMC is this: from observation, Prince doesn’t run things uniformly and informatively. All people want is information. No one wants P to be coy when it comes to paying out money for product. We want answers not a cryptic response. Prince can do all that with his personal life-- but once it affects our pocketbook -- then its only fair to expect P to be forthright with his business. Example:

Let’s say you order a lamp from Pottery Barn – it’s been 9 months and it hasn’t arrived. You send Pottery Barn an email and they reply with: “High, We’re sorry but we have no in4mation at this time. The manufacturer has decided not to release the lamp. When he does release it, we will let you know”. Meantime your ass is in the dark.

No offense Prince, but you cant run a business creatively! Give us the respect of supporting your cause with our cash in a professional manner and the majority (not all, cuz you know ppl cannot resist beyotching at every little thing) will respect you with MORE business in return.

On another note: I feel WE, as in the collective, also need to acknowledge that he’s a rock star who has had his way for along time now. And you are not going to change that unless you hit him in the hip pocket. Otherwise, let it be done and accept it. If you don’t like his business practices then send a message by not renewing your membership. Plain and simple right? I for one, don’t really care. I know what I’m in for (even as a newbie!) and if and when I get tired of it, I’ll end my membership. Currently though, I’ve gotten what I’ve paid for and then some. But then again, I am not as dedicated as some on this board.

There seems to be a power struggle, a discrepancy on who is the boss and who is in the right. Is it Prince? Since the music belongs to him? Or is it the fans, who pay his bills? Who buy the music and in turn a piece of that belongs to them? Would there be a Prince without his fans? My feeling is that he will always have fans. Here is a guy who may not be “commercial” but he will always have a following.

At the end of the day -- This is his job. His livelihood and his love. We really don’t have any say in the matter. You can either continue to support him, or not. I support the basics of his involvement in freeing his music --- the industry is changing and he along with others, will be considered vanguards of a new movement of independent music.

However, there needs to be a careful balance. If there is supply and demand and you don’t meet the needs of those demands… either the demand will wane, or there will be another outlet that will supply that demand. These are the laws of economics.

You make your choice – and Prince, well, Prince makes his. While he may be imperious and iconoclastic – he is not infallible. Let’s hope that he doesn’t wake up one day and find out that his fan base has all but withered on the vine for failure to water it on occasion.


Whew! What an inane diatribe I created. This is what happens when you eat too many legumes! That is to say… you generate a lot of hot air

Thanks for indulging.



PS> the Prince V. Website thang.. well... I'll let you know what Prince says when he calls me.
[This message was edited Fri Oct 11 9:31:49 PDT 2002 by salaciousV]

well, if i understand you correctly you are deducing that A) Prince is right in his actions B) we are greedy fans and C) Bootleggers are

i can agree.

do i think it's right of Prince to go after supporters because they use his image on their sites? no. as long as they aren't doing anything illegal it should be ok. and if he's just doing it to show his tyrannical side (if he has one) and not because peeps are hosting bootlegs or are being inflammatory, then i dont think that's cool.

Prince needs to understand that allthough he is powerful, he shouldnt underestimate the power of his fans in numbers. but i'm talking logistics here. not about his religion, his personal life, or how his music has changed.

in that respect you have my complete agreement. support him or don't.

GREAT post!

I agree with both of you. Though what I've done in the past doesn't coexist with what I believe (as far as buying boots). But we're all sinners...

Of course, I haven't bought a boot since 98, so I don't have to feel guilty or anything anymore. Once I heard all the outtakes I wanted to hear, there wasn't any point.

For me, creativity is a gift from God. Prince creates and designs sounds and arrangements that i could never imagine. God gave Prince this gift. i believe that Prince is the soul owner of his "gift" and it is Prince's gift to give when, where and how he chooses. Prince's gift has brought me much joy. i can't help but feel that the second i assume i can "take" this gift before it is "given" to me... it fails to be a gift. it then becomes some kind of theft.

A very insightful, well-expressed and balanced point-of-view.
Thanks for sharing. I agree with you completely. I hope
Prince sees this and sends you an email to answer your question.

Did Prince chastise D'angelo when he said "movie star" (unreleased at the time)
was his favorite boot??

If there's NO DEMAND for bootlegs, unfortunately the "theft" will go on anyway.

If all that has been "stolen" was ACTUALLY
released by the bootleggers ,there would
probably be twice as much around.


The majority of is fans don't care about obtaining bootlegs. Prince should be
careful but concentrate on his art.

salaciousV said:

Great point.

Valid points through out. Great read.

Housequake2K2 said:

I couldn't have said it any better.

Well I'm surprised any of you found it coherent at all, thanks!

I guess what I really want to say is this: Curbing bootlegs CAN be as simple as don't buy it. You dont create a demand for product... and businesses dry out.

However, as ORGMIND said above -- does it keep ppl from stealing? No. it won't.

I mean, you can't control everything. Part of being a celebrity means that you give up a portion of your privacy and you can't take it back. Thats it! So the fact that he does public shows and ppl get their recording equipment in... well... its just going to happen.

Do I think people who steal from Prince are fans? No way. The NPGMC email was right on the money with that one. It is straight up fraud and criminal.

Do I think people who buy bootlegs are not fans? No -- they are Prince's BIGGEST fans! But they are also creating a thorn in his side by being accomplices.

My theory: If Prince built upon NPGMC's brand and offered more incentives, made it bigger, better, stronger (ala Bionic Man) then I think he kicks the competition above the knees and betwixt the legs!

That is the only answer. Maintain NPGMC to the highest and optimum level of performance and *MAKE* it so that fans DONT WANT TO GO ANYWHERE ELSE FOR THEIR MUSIC!

In summation... (drumroll please) to quote (cant believe i'm doing this) a Prince lyric "Get your house in order" if you want us to visit it!

And then the majority of your fans WILL stop buying the knock-offs down the street and instead feel privledged to shop at your boutique.

Help us help you.

I type alot dont I?

but i don't buy or sell bootleggage, nor does everybody here buy/sell them. yes, i own some...

lol, now I can see why there's always some shit going on over here. You people can't read.

Nicely said, Sal...good points were made for both sides of the argument in your post...

One small thing, though...I personally get tired of hearing the phrase "we pay his bills"...lol...we, in fact, don't pay for shit other than his music...in my eyes, Prince pays for his bills his own damn self by working...the reason his cable bill gets paid is because he works to earn money to pay it, just like we all do...I doubt the fry cook at the local fastfood place feels that "McDonalds pays his bills"...lol...he prolly feels that he worked his ass off to make whatever money he makes, so he himself pays his bills thru the sweat of his brow...

joeycoco said:

would you like to clarify Joey?

wellbeyond said:

Point taken. I meant to say that as counter to the whole thing. Prince v. Everybody.

But I dunno... everyone is a critic and while I dont mourn for Prince -- I am empathetic to the "stolen goods" factor.

Stealing is Stealing, right?

Oh, I didn't mean you specifically, Sal...lol Just "those" who use the argument of "we pay his bills!" in defense of whatever their stance is...

I have the perfect solution: Prince should hire the bootleggers and have them run NPGMC.

Then everyone is happy, right?

PlastikLuvAffair said:

Right, not everybody here does, but that doesnt mean he shouldn't maintain his Club as *theee* place for music and if he were to be so generous add an extra mp3 here and there.

I dunno. Just tossing out ideas.

I think it sucks that he is such an oxymoron sometimes. Alienates the fans via the club (unprofessional email response to some ), welcomes them (via the club) at the shows.

There has to be a happy medium.

BloodyMouth said:

That'll get Prince on the org ala X-Files...

salaciousV said:

I think the happy medium would be to have his lawyers
raid Sabotage and the other bootleg companies, confiscate the CDs, replace the bootleg logos with NPG Records and sell
them himself. Prince gets his payment for his art, we get
his music, an overall win/win situation.

BOOT LEGGING

First BOOTS are ment for FEET and LEGS attach to the FEET for BOOTS to be put on...

HOWEVER in this stance it would come 2 surmise that the truth is truly SIMPLY THIS:

THOU SHALT DONT STEAL this aint about holier than THOU this IS SIMPLY DONT STEAL anything that is not given 2 U by the artist direct...or by anyone by any means...


IF U BUY A CAR..and U leave the garage open does it meen somebody can COME in2 your garage while your asleep and BORROW it or even take it for GOOD...U have to look at how U would FEEL if somebody even came to your house WALKED n2 your KITCHEN opened the refrigerator and HELPED themselves to all of your food...THERE IS a FINE line of GIVING and TAKING...JUST remain in the CENTER so that U DONT have to worry about IF U should IF U DO or IF U think U should do otherwise...DONT STEAL its not hard 2 FIGURE OUT...DONT STEAL IT...JUST DON'T DO IT.


PS: DO U THINK THE APPLE that was eaten from the tree MIGHT have felt bad being the BRUNT of the ancient stories forever...THE APPLE IS INNOCENT (TALENT) but the choice is the VICTIM...THANK U

GODBLISS U GODKISS U

SingMia~Arjuna

IAOIAHMIA said:

just go...run as fast as you can...dont look back..never look back...run and run as far as your "legs" can take you...AND NEVER COME BACK!!!

IAOIAHMIA said:

Mia, why are you trying so hard to be weird?

Prince has to get real, though. The bootlegs of "All My Dreams", "Databank" and so on have been circulating for almost 20 years! Anyone who wanted them, got them. Just because some people expose themselves on the internet for having this stuff, and he sues them, Prince is barely gonna scratch the surface in repairing the damage done. It's done.


The Bootleg recordings are out there...


A record store I used to get Prince bootlegs from would have a bunch of stuff: if you couldn't afford the 3-lp box-set "Royal Jewels", for example, all you had to do is plunk down $20.00 and the owner would make you a tape copy. That's how I got "Dance Electric", "Rebirth of the Flesh", etc.

The only way to beat bootleggers @ their game, and satisfy appitites of consumers is to release the stuff officially. Now, if NPG Records or NPGMC is not willing or cannot afford to do so, Prince should sign a deal to release an anthology Vault series thru a decent label.

Everybody wins, except bootleggers.

THEN PUT A FORK IN ME, CUZ I'M DONE!!!


Prince will be making NO MORE MONEY from me...getting no more air play in my home...


I'M OVER IT


support YOURSELF!!!

Vashti said:

so this means you wont be buying bootlegs either, right?
P.S. I still haven't gotten that stuff you sent me.
[This message was edited Sat Oct 12 20:22:20 PDT 2002 by LadyCabDriver]

LCD...you are correct!! when I say..."I'm DONE!!" it normally means "I'm done"



PS: are you kidding me girl?!?! I kinda thought so since I didn't recieve no THANK YOU org note...I've had problems with sending ppl things in the mail...don't know what that means though...

BloodyMouth said:

A-FUNKING-MEN SISTER!!! That would solve most of the problems!!! I have always thought that a "special edition" NPGMC show with nothing but boots and unreleased live tracks. Hey Prince Email me so and I will give you my thoughts. Better yet turn me loose in the vault for a day and let me do my own NPGMC audio show. Hummm Im getting some ideas here.

I dont get it. What is the contention of bootlegging? Don't buy it?

I think there is more to it than that.

As far as the Club -- I think that there could be a sizable overhaul.

Note to Prince: You cant please everyone, but you can at least run a business that should surpass legal and illegal music distributors.

You owe it to your name, you owe it to your fans.

Being listed with the BBB for complaints isn't cool.

But we still love you.

And if you have ideas, let us know in no uncertain terms -- that means no ploys or abstract suggestions...

Plain and simple... what do you want from your fans?