I've never thought of Prince as a very complicated songwriter at his best. I"ve sung and played many of his songs and he does write in odd keys at times. Little Red corvete, The Beautiful Ones, the opening of Let's Go Crazy, etc.., all use chords that are unusual in pop music. I think the jazz and gospel background had a lot to do with this. He also was very colorful in his use of simple chords, he'd add an extra note to make it sound funkier, especially in his best work with the Time. I believe he wrote around his vocal limitations like most of us songwriters do. He doesn't have a great range in his normal voice, at least not compared to guys like Jackie Wilson, Springsteen, Elvis. So I'm sure he hovers around certain ranges and keys for that. I've taken theory and see it as a waste of time for most of our kind of musicians. Theory is a static thing, fossilized and uncreative, we don't need that. Prince would know that also. I mean, it's uses would not outweigh the time it would take to learn it. Like a lot of academia.

I forgot to mention that I believe his most powerful music is his simplest music. Most people point to Lovesexy as his decline for a reason. Whether or not you agree with that, the use of more and more parts, more complex arrangements is not an improvement. As composers, I know that we know how it feels to get so many parts going that things are a big mess and that we have to decide what to include and what to leave out. I also notice some people who think it's really an accomplishement to throw as much shit in there as possible. It's not. In fact, when i look at my earlier songs, I realize that the use of horn parts up the ass only made me sound amateurish.

mozfonky said:

The genius of Lovesexy is its complexity and simplicity, you cant get any more simple than I wish you heaven, the guitar riff in Alphabet St and Glam Slam, OK, some of these songs go off on a tangent, only revealing the author's personality and depth. The reason you cant pull it off is that your not Prince (no offense)

In terms of keys Prince is all over the place. I'd say he writes in minor slightly more but that's about it.

GoldiLocks said:

Goldylocks,
I am by no means an advanced mucician, but I do love music theory. 1st of all, I think that if you want to understand the circle of 5th better you should just work on your scales. Just start with C and work your way into say 3#'s and then the other way into say 3 flats. And eventually add 4 sharps/flats etc.

From what I've noticed Prince writes in a variety of keys and he often uses some beautiful and unusual chords. (Unusual to me...I often find myself getting lost in/facinated by the in the chords themselves). People generally choose chords or keys as a function of the mood that they wish to convey.
Singers often choose or change the keys of a song to fit the range of their voices. (I wouldn't worry so much about that right now if you're just starting to play)

Instruments. I went from violin, to piano, and eventually to guitar. It has taken me a while to get an understanding for the guitar, but now we're cool. I do read music, so I don't know if that has made it easier or harder for me. I can work out a song by ear, but it may take a while ( and it depends on the song and the part I'm trying to learn).

Never underestimate the power of books when you're trying to learn something new. There are some good ones out there on Piano theory and music theory.

If you live near a college, I like to browse in the college bookstore in whatever is recommended for the music classes (a Level 1 or 2 Piano Keyboard class would be good). Look through the book, if you like it you can write down the ISBN number, Title, and Author and order on Amazon.com (or you can by it on the spot, but usually at a higher price).

Anyway, I guess that's all the advice I have.
I hope I've been helpful. Peace.

Oh, and sites like Sheetmusic.com and Amazon have some Prince music books available for sale.

Ionno about "advanced compostions in terms of key" but heres a formula that can't go wrong. Funk kinda defys description. Straight from the don.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...-vPM-MlCLs

The genius of Lovesexy is its complexity and simplicity, you cant get any more simple than I wish you heaven, the guitar riff in Alphabet St and Glam Slam, OK, some of these songs go off on a tangent, only revealing the author's personality and depth. The reason you cant pull it off is that your not Prince (no offense)[/quote]

I'm not necessarily saying Lovesexy wasn't very good. I always liked the production on it and in those days, the way you could expect something new on every album. I'm just saying many people point to Lovesexy as the end of his greatest era in creativity and you can understand the point even if you don't agree with it(I don't completely agree). I remember thinking how cool the dense sound was then, but it doesn't compare to the simplicity of his earlier work to me. The stuff on Dirty Mind all the way up to SOTT was peak Prince. He did plenty of great work outside that era inspite of all the stuff people say but this period was his greatest run.

GoldiLocks said:

all you gotta do is listen to a song and u'll hear what key he's playing in...if u're studying music theory.. u'll pick that up hearing it.. and as someone stated already.. he plays in many different keys..

GoldiLocks said:

i only played the Clarinet in School,so i don't know if my comment will help or not, but i bet if u took a music class it would help ur research tremendously

Key has nothing to do with complexity. Key just denotes which note you are going to start a scale from. Prince, being a natural baritone, probably chooses certain keys because they fit his voice better, but it doesn't really have to do with any compositional complexity. However, what makes a song complex is it's chord progression, polyrythmns, counterpoint, structure and use of scales. Prince usually writes relatively simple songs, but then at a certain point in every song, he throws something in that makes you scratch your head and say what the hell was that, how did he think that up. 3121 is actually a pretty interesting song. It sounds simple but it kind of breaks a lot of rules. The bridge on elephants and flowers is pretty wicked. Lovesexy and Adore are incrible structurally. They don't follow the typical pop format of verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus... intstead they just keep moving forward and every line is new. Come is pretty sick with all the horn arrangements and everything. Damn U is a great jazz composition. Christopher Tracy's Parade, Under the Cherry Moon, and Do U Lie are pretty awesome . Mellow is definitely complex. Again even in Prince's simple tunes he usually throws something in even if it's just for a second that makes you go, damn. It's usually in his vocal harmonies which show a true mastery of counterpoint.

Prince loves 9th chords & so do I. They're the funkiest IMO. They're not quite major & not quite minor (in terms of sound--there are major & minor 9th chords of course). Bluesy, allowing both major & minor melodies on top of them, but more complex than blues.

They allow him to often just vamp on one chord and have lots of harmonic freedom to layer on top.
[Edited 10/8/07 12:46pm]

First of all, it is "G flat major with an E in the bass". On the guitar, just play a barre Gb flat chord but leave the low E string open and you, too, can be funky for a couple beats.

Many of the songs Prince plays in Bb have horn parts. Someone told me here once that most saxophones and other horn instruments are commonly tuned to Bb so that's why a lot of Prince's funks songs are in Bb. Makes sense to me.

What drclay said about vocal harmonies - right on. I never noticed that until I read where Wendy said Prince's harmonies were "to die for". Dang, she was right. (Maybe it was Lisa that said it.)

"Complex" has so many definitions. To me, the most musically complex or sophisticated album is ATWIAD. followed by Purple Rain. Song-wise, I think of "The Ladder"; "Diamonds and Pearls"; "Paisley Park"; and "Take Me With U" as good examples of complex songs.

BTW, I want to once again sing praises about "Take Me With U". It has always been my favorite Prince song. But what Prince did to it starting on the ONA tour shows why I think he's a genius.

Originally, the break ("I don't care if we spend the night in your mansion") began with the Fmaj7 chord for two bars, and then the hook was played.

But starting on the ONA tour, Prince started playing it Fmaj7 for one bar and G/A in the second bar (that means a G major chord with an A note added in). It raised the pitch of that part of the song and built more emotion.

To tweak a song like that after playing it for 20 years is pretty cool. But to have the tweak add a whole 'nother level of texture to the song - genius, IMHO.

If you don't know what I mean, listen to the "Purple Rain" and "ONA Live" versions and it will jump out at you.

I don't generally think of Prince's songs as being complex in terms of composition. They're complex in terms of arrangements.

And within a simple sounding song, he might add a little flourish that's like "where did that come from?"

There are examples of key changes that are very interesting.

Like the intro to Anotherloverholeinyohead just before the vocals.

Or the horn break in Mountains before the outro

Or the changes going on behind the Vadar speech in In All My Dreams

Even the blues ending of Let's Go Crazy is actually more jazz than blues.

Parade has some of his most interesting compositions. Do U Lie has a cool key change built into the melody, that tweaks a standard jazz ii V I change.

listen to Xenophobia and Planet Earth

NDRU said:

Definitely. I love to play "Do U Lie?" on guitar.

I was so lucky to have learned to play guitar by reading the "Purple Rain" song book. That's hard music to play, but I didn't know any better. After that, everyone else's stuff looks easy.

RodeoSchro said:

yeah, computer blue is quite a lesson! It's probably tough too, because a good half of the songs aren't what I'd call "guitar songs." Learning I would Die 4 U & Baby I'm a Star on guitar probably takes more imagination than, say, a White Stripes or Nirvana album that's totally guitar based.

NDRU said:

Rock on! I LOVE to play "Baby I'm a Star" acoustically, but it took a little practice to figure out a way to make it audience-friendly.

I was listening to "I Would Die 4 U" thjis morning and was struck by how this is word-for-word Christ's message of salvation. That inspired me to figure out an acoustic version of this. I'm headed to the church in an hour to work on it.

I have a feeling my take on it will be much slower than the full-band arrangement. But maybe I can work out an up-tempo version. With my limited vocal abilities, the faster a song is - the better I sound, LOL.

Oh, and "Computer Blue" - my favorite solo of all time! I remember tabbing it on an airplane back in 1985. The lady sitting next to me thought I was insane.