Anji said:

And again I'm intrigued by your observations. The lone wolf in the wilderness describes Prince pretty darn accurately! Even with all the fame and fortune, the beautiful women, the success as an artist and performer, Prince ultimately remains the lone wolf.
I hope that one day he will find somebody that is able to get through to him.
His tendency to chose very young and unexperienced women isn't going to help him. The women that he typically chooses don't seem equipped with the necessary life experience to deal with such a complex and intense personality.
His stardom doesn't help him either. Most people lack integrity when dealing with a celebrity. And the people and friends that work for him don't dare to express constructive criticism either, because they want to remain on the pay-roll. Prince is the best example, that even when your at the top, you can find yourself in a lonely place.

Tame said:

That's ...sweet of you!...like a bullet shield? does that mean you would be his BODYGUARD?

"I WOULD DIE 4 U"
[Edited 10/3/07 1:26am]

Anji said:

Just curious, can you please explain what pattern of self destructive behavior? I mean, what things has he done to himself that are considered self-destructive? I'm guessing that one of these things is to alienate people and damage his reputation...or is there more?

Anji said:

But it would seem that Prince had loads of good friends growing up. He was a big part of the local band scene, and there are numurous interviews with friends and relations from that time.

He clearly wanted to do things by himself though.

wildgoldenhoney said:

Interesting question and I think you more or less have the answer in terms of alienation. The part of my paragraph prior to the statement you highlighted gives a clue as to what I was saying:

"If, as an adult, he still holds onto this negative belief at an unconscious level, that he is unlovable, then it's likely that on one level he'll sabotage his relationships with himself, others and the world, in order to confirm this belief (self-confirmatory belief)."

I guess it comes down to one's interpretation. Self-destructive from one perspective, as I mentioned earlier, can also be viewed of as success from another perspective. Afterall, how do we interpret Prince's seemingly endless burning of the midnight oil whilst crafting music? Or for that matter Prince's history of dating multiple women at the same time?

james said:

Hi James,

Whilst I agree he may have been 'around' many people growing up due to being a part of school and the bands he played with, my understanding is that he also often felt awkward, insecure, reclusive and shy around others, and only truly appeared to open up and communicate when he played his music. Of course, I'm certain there will have been occasions where he felt comfortable enough with someone/others to be himself but I would hazard a guess that that was rare and special, as opposed to the norm. To my mind, the default position seems to have been set to 'keep one self within'. And I suspect it was a protective measure.

You're right; he clearly did appear to feel more comfortable doing things by himself, according to his own barometer and his own rules. I suspect it was/is simply easier for him to operate that way rather than in relationship with others.

GiGi319 said:

There's a beautiful saying I once heard, Gigi, that said something as follows...

"Once you are able to truly begin the journey to valuing and accepting yourself, only then can you truly begin the journey to valuing and accepting others."

I think we must not overemphasize the impact of Prince youth on his personality. Surely as a man of almost 50 he must have overcome the impact of an isolated youth by now ?

Personally I think his fame has had a much greater impact on this personal development. Let's not forget that from early on he was surrounded with people that never offered any constructive critizism, that he was never sure if the other was interested in him FOR him and that he was never confronted with the more pragmatic challenges of every day life. How could he have learned modesty, or humility or just empathy ?

Gigi319 implied that Prince became a rebel as a means to avoid emotional commitment but what if the fame caused Prince to develop an overinflated ego or an asocial personality, or both ?

History has taught us dat geniuses were often difficult people with no amical characters or sociable personalities.

Perhaps it is a side effect of geniality ?

LittleSister said:

You made some excellent points here, little sister!
Prince has been a pampered celebrity for a very long time. I believe that stardom spoils people and they tend loose touch with reality over time. To always receive special treatment, certainly doesn't help to develop modesty and humility.

Prince, however seemed to have this asocial personality long before he reached stardom. His genius seems to be mainly manifested in his creative power as a musician. You're right, that most geniuses are very difficult, and are usually not equipped with social skills. That's probably one of the reasons why geniuses tend to isolate themselves.

Anji said:

In other words... how can you love your neighbor as yourself... if you don't love yourself?

Heiress said:

OldJoke said:

I feel the same.
This Thread is truly very deep and insightful.

Anji said:

And this type of person no doubt goes through periods in their life where they’d rather not be surrounded by people who are questioning them.

And as much as I’m the complete antithesis of a “yes man”, and as much as I believe that this can be very self destructive, I can understand needing this peace at times.

Just look at the threads on this site everyday filled with people willing to give Prince free advice. And the advice is totally conflicting and all over the map.

You’ve got to ultimately be happy with yourself. That’s how you’ll make it in this world; not by pleasing people who are mostly just looking to be pleased by you (and everybody else in their life).

People -- yes, and definitely including me, get it twisted all the time.

Just because one is being honest, doesn’t make it right.

The honesty is very much appreciated, but the truth remains a far more challenging nut to crack.

Like he sings in “Future Baby Mama”, you’ve got to find a woman who has a “strong foundation that lasts forever more”.

He’s not talking about superior makeup. He’s talking about a woman with a supportive backbone that loves both you and herself unconditionally.

You simply can’t experience this fully with a pliable person that believes disagreement is as negative.

Because you’ll never know for sure if that embrace is genuine if it doesn’t come wrapped in turmoil.

Love yourself first, and the rest, even though it won’t all be as pretty and agreeable as we might all think we want, will naturally fall into place.

Brendan said:

You're logic and reasoning sounds right on Brenden! I hope you don't mind if I post it in another thread!

Brendan said:

Anji said:

But I'm still left with the overriding sensation of a sore dick.

Er, that's what I meant

And, (although I fully recognise that it's also telling me something about me), I find it compelling that, whilst much of Prince's material expressing emotion comes across as showmanship and crocodile tears (as endearing and engaging as that might be), it's only a few songs like 'Empty Room' which sound convincing (to me).

While none of us can truly say what he is or has gone through, I can see why alot of you posted what you did. Iteresting interpretations, maybe true to some extent, but we'll never truly know. I just hope he knows, that his fans do love him very much. I know some are here just for the love of his music, but some of us truly do love as a person.

langebleu said:

Only a few songs that sound convincing in what sense? Expressing genuine emotion?
What do you think that says about Prince and his relationship with music? Do you feel that contradicts what I've suggested?
And I'd love to hear your answer on this one but what do you think that says about you, langebleu?

Brendan said:

"And this type of person no doubt goes through periods in their life where they’d rather not be surrounded by people who are questioning them."

"He’s talking about a woman with a supportive backbone that loves both you and herself unconditionally. You simply can’t experience this fully with a pliable person that believes disagreement is as negative."

That's an interesting response, Brendan. I'm not sure if there is a conflict between the two statements you've made (that I've highlighted above). How successfully do you feel Prince negotiates these two ways? Do you remember the analogy you once made regarding the caged animal breaking free of restrictions eventually? If I remember correctly, it was made in reference to Prince's increasing conformity to societal ways (e.g., his affiliation with organised religion) and that being a natural consequence of his non-conformist youth. Two extremes of the same dimension, ultimately.

wildgoldenhoney said:

Once my sometimes awkward choice of words are out there in the ether, I don't really care what becomes of them.

The only thing I'd say is that it becomes more difficult to avoid the inevitable stones thrown in my direction when I don't know from whence they came.

Anji said:

I'm not sure that I remember the analogy without more help, but the Prince of 2007 surely acts differently -- at least in public -- than the Prince of 2001.

The Prince of 2001 was so reinvigorated, so re-energized that he no doubt felt compelled to climb a mountain and tell the whole world that he's finally found a way to happiness (I think that he'll find out later that it's not that easy, no matter how hard you squeeze your bible.)

And you bet there’s a conflict here, I just didn’t achieve seamless clarity. But I’ll keep striving for the impossible anyway.

Prince, as an artist, just like most of us, obviously knows a lot of the answers to life, but that by itself certainly isn’t motivating him from cycling through the same old mistakes.

Excerpt from “Future Baby Mama”:

“Yeah I know U might b fine, but I've seen it all b 4,
Cinderella was a waste of time, then oops she's out the door
2 build a strong foundation, the thing that matters more,
Is under the floor, a strong foundation that lasts forever more”

You can’t write something that intelligent without knowing in your heart or hearts what’s right.

And most of us, at least given enough time and thought, know instinctively, if not through experience and knowledge, what is truly the right thing to do. But acting upon that force, actually ripping it off the page and taking it with us, can be a totally different issue.

And if he is unable to live these words outside of his art, he’ll likely continue to meet women with the same notes delivered from his bodyguards. You know the women, the one’s with the curves so deeply drawn that they’re spilling all over the dance floor.

And let’s be honest, the chances of meeting someone with great wisdom and unconditional love in this manner are just slighter better than me winning the 100-meters at the Olympics.

Superficiality versus profundity is a dichotomy that we all continually struggle with to one degree or another (but certainly we all don’t have Prince’s fortune and misfortune repeatedly be thrown at us as challenges).

I mean, I’m totally willing to work my way through hundreds of women throwing themselves at me. I know ultimately that it’s a dead end, but it certainly doesn’t preclude me from ever wanting to go down that road.

That’s why I always try, but certainly sometimes fail, to separate the artist from the real man or woman, because otherwise it’s just too easy for it all to sound like idiotic hypocrisy and roll my eyes at the lyrics.

“Yeah, he’s saying this and that, but then he goes out and does this or that!”

Hell, it just wouldn’t be life if we weren’t constantly screwing it up.

But if you’re not going to learn from the mistakes of others, the least you could do is learn from your own.

** Help?! **
[Edited 10/6/07 1:16am]

Brendan said:

And I bet you, Prince is going after the next Cinderella as we speak.
Simply because a Cinderella makes him look like the stud he aspires to be.
Same reason why Trump and Heffner go after much younger and beautiful women.
Their celebrity status and money makes it possible for them to pick and choose like kids in a candy store. They keep replacing their women every few years with a younger,more beautiful model.
These men seem oblivious to the fact, that at some point they started to look utterly ridiculous. Nobody can tell me that these women marry for love. It's fame and money that drives them. How mamy young ,beautiful women do you know, that go after much older men that aren't famous or rich?
I certainly don't know any!
And Prince knows that ,too. In his song he advertises: I got a lot of money, and I don't want to spend it on me, I like pretty things and you're as pretty as you can be.
Prince still looks very attractive for his age, but how long is he going to be able to keep it up, without looking as absurd as Heffner and Trump?
Maybe Prince isn't looking for love after all. As intelligent as he is, he must know, that he can't buy love with money.
A relationship is give and take, and I'm not sure if Prince is willing and able to give (other than money) what it takes to keep a relationship going.
He seems to get bored easily with his women.

Definitely with a cause!

Obsidian said:

Could you be a little bit more specific? What's his cause in your opinion?
Please do share!

Brendan said:

Yes, Prince can often be seen to trumpet what he feels are great things at the time he is experiencing them. At the time of his new found freedom from Warner Brothers, for example, his messages went something along the lines of 'the album he was born to make', 'this is what freedom sounds like' and a little later on 'being number one at the bank'.

But to my mind, the Emancipation album and era doesn't sound like an artist truly free. If anything, it appears to me that Prince was operating with the mindset of a corporate competitor (albeit an independent one) by somewhat desperately trying to make Emancipation a commercial success. See, I can play your game and play it better? In one interview, I remember he excitedly asks the interviewer how many hit records can he hear (whilst playing Get Your Groove On, no less) and if memory serves, even manages to downplay (and compare himself) to the likes of R Kelly. Desperate sounding times for a man truly free. I wonder whether the Musicology/3121/Planet Earth experiments have been designed to succeed with the commercial world where Emancipation and Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic tried but seemingly failed.

For an artist sounding free, I listen to N.E.W.S. or possibly The Rainbow Children, although I have question marks as to how gripped he seemed to be by religious fervour at the time, just as your post suggests. Squeezing the Bible, indeed.

Brendan said:

I'd dig it if Prince got together with Nicole Scherzinger, the lead singer from The Pussycat Dolls. Can you just imagine the slamming funk that would come from those sessions?

Brendan said:

Thus, the music is sometimes best heard as a projection of the person he aspires to be, as opposed to an accurate reflection of who he is.