Just a thought....

If you think you are as bad as Prince, and if you are talented enough to make even the songs that you criticize so much and say are horrible, then bring your talent to the Org Artist Community and let's see what you've got. Do you make beats? Can you play an instrument? Can you write better songs? Can you sing? Can you dance? Let's see whatcha got.

If we don't see you there, then I guess you losin'.


I am a musician. I have the chops. I can make music and I can sing. Prince can do it all, plus he can perform, dance, and he looks good. Can you?

So, Planet Earth sucks? Is that how you roll? You probably thought TRC was too "preachy", or that Emancipation was too "electronically manufactured". Many of you "critics" are also the ones that bashed Gold when it came out. Now, many of you all are like "dayum, Gold was slammin'".

Yeah, I said it. What do you all have to slap down on the table?

Come with it.

I agree!

What,no replies?!

wlcm2thdwn said:

course not!!!!

isn't it fair to say that sometimes even prince has bad hair days and that every song he records isn't pure solid gold? i mean, to expect everyone to "put up or shut up" in LOVING everything he does without question is kinda putting a lot of pressure on him as an artist. i may love something that someone else thinks is crap and vice versa. he might even dislike some of his OWN output. i mean, at the end of the day, all these words we see spewed all over the org and the other fan sites are just opinions. none of it is fact. what's wrong with just letting people like what they like and letting folks dislike what they dislike? it's not that big of a whoop, is it?

Anxiety said:

I am all for people having their own opinions. That's cool. But hear me out. I mean, I don't like the style of the music that (example) Michael Buble presents in his music. But the music itself, and his singing, etc, are not horrible, and in fact, it's very good, but if I were to rate that music on my personal taste, I would give any of his albums a 1 or a 2 out of 5 because it's not my personal taste. But musically, I would give it a 4 or a 5. I've heard some very horrible stuff, where people are off-beat trying to clap on the 2 and 4 but manage to somehow screw it up and be on the 1.5 and 3.5 , and the music sounds like a 3 year old banging on a little Playskool piano. And unless you have a serious hearing disorder, most people would hear that stuff and be like WHOA, this is horrible, I give it -1 out of 5. But for someone to give PRINCE a -1 out of 5 or even a 1 or 2 out of 5 on an album like Rave, TRC, or Planet Earth is just uncalled for. Some of Prince's music may not be the style that people prefer, but it is not musically horrible or poorly composed.

That's why I say that if a person can't realize the difference, or if they do realize the difference and still choose to give someone like Prince such low ratings for musical quality, then they should bring their own talent to the table. It's a fair call-out.

JDODSONandFlashpointe said:

Well, that's your opinion. Hardcore fan, here. I proudly will keep on protesting such. However, even a "Hardcore Fan" like myself can see the flaws in "Prince". In my opinion, "Planet Earth" isn't getting much love from "ME" because (Critic or not), in my opinion, it's mediocre, if not below. I'm not a harsh critic. In fact, I don't like to break people down at all, nor do I try to. But, if I like something, I usually don't have to put much effort (If any) in doing so. But, that's just me.....I guess.

FarrahMoan said:

Yeah, I understand you, but read what I wrote in the post right above yours. That explains the difference, and I think you might understand what I am saying. (In Reply #5)
[Edited 8/24/07 22:45pm]

JDODSONandFlashpointe said:

Yeah? Okay, I see what you're saying, there. As far as music goes (Because "Prince" is a perfectionist), it's arrangements are pretty flawless from that standpoint. But, for his standards, and what just flat-out appeals and poses a "means" that we could all (Or, even some. Just most, even!) click with as soon as we hear it. That.....that poses something just as important as just finishing off a composition, arrangement, etc.

JDODSONandFlashpointe said:

What i gots, i aint gonna slap down on no table,yo!What i do is like radiation, eventually it's gonna get ya!

Anxiety said:

To me it's a HUGE whoop!
kiddin'!

JDODSONandFlashpointe said:

i can't agree with that. just because someone like prince has extraordinary musical talent doesn't mean that he always produces output that reflects the fullest of his potential. and i think that can be said of any artist as prolific as prince has been. talent does not always ensure quality.

So... on that logic, before you ever vote again (and let's face it, a vote for someone is by default also a vote against others), then we're gonna see what you got first, even if it's on a smaller scale of organising a coffee morning against racism or selling cookies for dyslexia.

Go you!
[Edited 8/27/07 15:47pm]

I think you misunderstand the role of critic. The critic is simply an audience member or listener who has themselves, an audience for their own opinions.

See, when someone creates a piece of work that is manufactured for mass-communication, there are two separate groups of people involved in the process - the creator(s), and the audience. The audience is separate from the creator(s), and thus has a completely separate experience and opinion of this piece of mass-communication. The very fact that this work is manufactured for the availability of this separate group of individual listeners and consumers, means that it is freely open to their interpretation and criticism, regardless of the creators own opinion or intentions - Such is the notion of free will and the human mind.

Or, in other words - Shut the fuck up you cry-baby.

prince himself will praise his audience for riding with him and thinking for themselves. having a smarter audience lends oneself to objectivity, and i dont have to be as talented as prince to know i dont like planet earth. i also think 1999 was superior to purple rain and it never dawned on me to back it up by learning guitar. we all have our own talents and he is blessed in spades but if he didnt want to be known or consumed by many which also includes criticism he would have been strumming his axe on Nicollet Avenue in Downtown Minny.Your defense of him by challenging all of us to try to match his talent is crazy, if i pay my $ for something i think i have a right to evaluate whether it was worth it or not.planet earth was not and i take responsibility for that, i dont ask you or prince to match the money i lost.

JDODSONandFlashpointe said:

I know exactly what u mean, and have argued the same point for years (to no avail). People generally confuse their likes and dislikes for some objective measure of the quality of music. Even on so called "bad" prince songs there is a level of creativity that most people can't reach. I understand this and would never ever put down his work as "crap" etc. I'm respectful of his efforts even if I am not personally moved by a particular song. I always find it amazing the people who dismiss whole albums. The elements that make prince great can be found on each and every album he has produced. Those who are so dismissive of certain works generally show their own musical limitations.

tricky99 said:

i guess "1999: the new master" displays a level of genius i can't quite wrap my limited intellect around, then.

i'm not quite advanced enough to understand moonwraps either.

Anxiety said:

Wise words!!!

A lot of great things are being said here and now I'm going to completely muck that up by speaking for myself.

And I love “Planet Earth” so you can either immediately dismiss me as an utter imbecile (probably true), as a paid-for hack (still waiting for that check), or because this writing is longer than three sentences. Regardless, it means that you won’t have to consider another opinion.

Anyway, for the two people that remain and through a great deal of my own mistakes I've learned to totally embrace it all, including the most outrageously unfounded, nonsensical stuff one could ever hope to produce.

I've been told by people who thought they managed to listen to something once without being overcome by sleep that what I was hearing wasn’t just wrong, it was intolerant.

It’s a wild place now, totally overgrown with everything. There are now literally enough numbers to properly hate everything.

Just look at the voting over at the largest movie site on the Internet (imdb.com, with millions of hits each day).

Even the greatest movies ever released get around an 8 out of 10 when voted upon. That means that there is enough indifference, boredom and sheer hostility to bring even these great pictures down to an 8.

So I’m sorry “Citizen Kane”, but you only get a “B” for a grade.

Is nothing sacred? Nope.

I’ve already been referred to by every name in the book for loving “The Rainbow Children”. Good luck in finding new ways to insult me today.

Now in 2007 I see that it has become almost fashionable to praise this music (even if the lyrics are a horrible disgrace and that god-awful voice should be destroyed!)

Yes, you would never be able to witness that arc by only allowing learned and fair criticism. And objectivity, a human impossibility, would be even more impossible without the aid of everyone; even the “you suck” posts (and, by the way, I do).

Besides, I’ve said countless dumb things over the years. So If I was going to start removing people, I’d have to start with myself.

And there is some level of truth about art, no matter how totally subjective some claim it to be.

If that weren’t true, then I could claim that everything I create is great. And I can assure you that it is certainly not!

When we’re born we can reject peas without support. That’s criticism.

But hopefully in time, and until death, we’ll keep learning to become wiser critics than we were when we were spitting out peas at the highchair.

Ultimately I want to get at the truth, not win contests of the ego.

***Add editing to the pile of things I can't do!***
[Edited 8/28/07 7:22am]

Anxiety said:

Much of the hate 1999 the new master has to do with Prince re-working an established masterpiece. Like how dare he mess with our memories. See also "old friends for sale". I also agree that the "original" version of OFRS is better but the difference between that and the released version is not that great. But from the fans u would think that the released version is an affront to God. Several years after 1999 the new master i have taken some of the versions and put them on mixtapes. I enjoy the rap and house music versions. The context is very important when listening to music.

I like every album P has put out....yeah , I said it....all of em'.....so sue me!

Anxiety said:

word!

tricky99 said:

i think the OFFS reworking was a lot more faithful to the mood and feel of the original than the 1999 re-recordings...and i've heard a LOT of rerecorded prince stuff since that has a different groove, but still stays loyal to what the original was going for. 1999:TNM is not an improvement or an equally timeless alternative to the original...but of course, that's just my opinion. maybe one day the ideas of including doug e. fresh and the mad poetry reading skillz of rosario dawson will be seen as classic strokes of genius.

JDODSONandFlashpointe said:

So using your logic....since you are not a professional athlete, it would be wrong for you to criticize the play of any individual or team right?

Since you are not in law enforcement, it would be wrong for you to express your opinion about police or crime.

Since you have never murdered anyone (I think I can safely make that assumption) that it would be wrong for you to express your opinions on that matter as well.

Since you.....


Do you get my point?

Sowhat said:

Exactly .....

Live and let Live ....

Sowhat said:

I get your point. And you know, I try to remain objective with regard to what other people do in their lives.

But there is a flaw in your comparisons. Firstly, there are written regulations for police to follow that are put in place by local, state, or federal laws. The same with murder. Whereas in music, there aren't any set guidelines, it's up to the individual and the record company (if they have a record company).

Sports? Yes, there is a similarity between sports and art being that people need to be extremely talented to be a professional in their respective fields. I try to believe that all artists are talented in some form or another and I try to believe that all professional athletes are talented in some form or another. Are there some that slack off when they get to the promised land? Yes. But are they still talented at their core? Yes. That's all I'm saying. It's fine to criticize and have an opinion, I never said it was bad. But people shouldn't throw out such harsh words as "horrible". That's the difference. Even lately, I have defended Barry Bonds- not because I condone of performance enhancers (because I don't) but because he is talented, regardless of what has happened, he's a talented guy.

U may hear some Surreal Cinematic Soundscape with my song TRASH THE ALIENS, which features a thermonuclear explosion and other tidbits, which won't compete with Prince but does verify that I am indeed a sick bastard.