I would like to remind some of you that I havent been out here in a while. So i do apologize if this has been overtalked.


I also did not know that Lank had been out here talking about this...interesting... I'd really be more interested in hearing more from Prince.

But even if it is "hurtful to Prince" that people bootleg there is a solution: Follow the lead of Pearl Jam and The Who and release the stuff and then people will not pay money for audience recordings.[/quote]


No disrespect intended but why should Prince be forced to release live recordings to eliminate bootlegging? I know its a plausible solution but if he chooses not to do that why should he be forced to do that. Maybe I'm wrong but that just doesn't seem fair.

-Tine

I like M and I did download a few of the tracks in question...that being said...
If they were just links...wouldn't I have gone to another site if I followed the links?? and downloaded from there? well...that's not how it was set up...all you had to do was click on the link and whamo! you got the song...I didn't realize I was getting the songs from somewhere else...it wasn't clear where it was coming from. I had e-mailed M to ask for some of the ones I had missed cause I didn't realize that's what was going on (it was intentionally vague, due to the fact that everyone knows that it is technically illegal) and was told by him that HE only had so much space and could only hold them for 24 hours...sorry to say it...but...they weren't just links.
This whole bit about how since Prince is rich he shouldn't be sueing...err...ahh...that's ridiculous!! so if I ever invent something and make millions off of it and someone infringes upon my invention...my technology ...I'm not allowed to sue because I'm already rich? LOL yeah...ok. that's not the way it works...and yes...when you sue you sue for cash...but that's because there's nothing else you can do to punish the person for infringement ...would you rather there be jail time? (maybe there is in big cases..I don't know) Knowing that he was warmed multiple times to stop and didn't...and didn't with an attitude...then I must say..it's his own fault...it seems they tried to give him a chance and he didn't take it...sorry m but...you shoulda just stopped when you were asked to stop.

Shorty said:

Direct linking or not, that's not the issue. It's still a link. And yes, I know about the DMCA, which doesn't treat direct linking to a file any different than linking to a page.

Prince is not just sending letters to site's like M's. Pretty much anyone who has a site and has anything on it which is not just non-copyrighted text is receiving letters.

I'm surprised prince.org hasn't been contacted yet for allowing fans to use Prince's image as an avatar. Maybe everyone with a site should just fucking take it down and show Prince it doesn't make a damn difference. Only thing it will do is ruin the online experience as a Prince fan. Oh wait, we still have npgmusicclub and it's exciting updates to look forward to.

BTW, saying that M should have stopped when they asked him to doesn't change anything to Blackwell's arguments why Prince decided to sue.

As a former singer, dancer, and actress. Taking copyrighted material hurts the artist more then you know. Especially those whom redo it and pass it off as their own. Singers can only collect royalties if the song is played through legal means...Bootlegs profits only drug lords and underworld low lives that do this on a large scale. And fans that say they love you at the same time bootleg your last project faster then the record company can. sometimes its not all money. It's the principle of it all. I was labeled an underground artist. I refused to sign with Motown or any label. Money isn't everything.you can spend your whole career in court or try to change the system. Fans would you work for FREE? SO Y Should he? Just a thought though this is progress? when people have to debate whether stealing is right or wrong? Then justify it by saying oh well they steal from every one else! I walked away from the business I began doubting that I wanted to give my life just performing. I am now a well traveled and well educated person. Imagine His dilemma. Prince has never done anything except music. ALL HIS LIFE!!!

joeycoco said:

well if linking is not the issue then M can't use it as an excuse either...right?
I have not heard of anyother sites other than M's that have received letters...this time around...I'm not saying they didn't receive letters...I'm just saying I'm not aware of them and I'm not talking about them at this moment.
The fact that Prince.org hasn't received a letter says alot as to why and why not they might be going after some sites.

Shorty said:

I was talking about you implying that because people couldn't see which site(s) the files were being downloaded from made any difference.

How the linking issue will hold up in court we'll see.



You don't even know which sites they're going after, let alone why.

Berry you are totaly right... he is indeed telling us something... i wrote it in a belgian paper, and it suprised me so. Why are people doing this instead of listening en enjoing for what he realy came for... for what we realy came for ...to give us good (the best) music... so good that we even go crazy with him and play his music all day long after his show... for many years ... until he comes again...

joeycoco said:

no...I don't..I never implied that I did. I was just commenting on what I did know...which was that M told me him self that he could only store the files for 24 hours due to space constraints on his website, and that he WAS told to stop and he did not...

Shorty said:

The fact that Prince.org hasn't received a letter says alot as to why and why not they might be going after some sites.
[This message was edited Wed Oct 2 13:04:42 PDT 2002 by joeycoco]

joeycoco said:

Don't worry when PurpleAss will have all the bootlegs sites shut down (in 2023 ), Prince.org will be next.

Yeah, but Prince.org doesn't sell or put up links to bootlegs. Prince would have no reason to go after the org. It's certainly not illegal to talk about boots.

jtgillia said:

Prince.org was hosting the link (Each and every time a song was posted there was a thread with a link to the posted song on the org) to Matthew's site which was hosting a link to an other sites and Matthew was sued so...


Think about it

jtgillia said:

ask uptown that question...

lovemachine said:

wait a minute...prince might be on to something...he could also sue google and yahoo for linking prince.org before his own npgmc.com..


then he can go after abc/fox/nbc/cbs for broadcasting commercials for google and yahoo...

and then he can go after sony and rca for making the tvs that allow people to watch the tv networks that allow the commercials to the websites who allow the links to prince.org who linked to the freemyheart site that linked to the booters who were providing free music at no cost...







stick a stick up the edit!!
[This message was edited Wed Oct 2 14:23:32 PDT 2002 by SkletonKee]

I have a handful of bootlegs, not by Prince tho, but this never stopped me buying the artistes next official album, live or otherwise. Bootlegs, in my opinion never harm an artist.. they boost interest more than diminish it.

Has anyone on here bought a Prince bootleg and in doing so, lost interest in buying the next official album? Or did it simply whet your appetite?

AaronForever said:

He's still an asshole and I hope Prince nails him. Circumstances, smircumstances. He's an asshole.

COME ON PRINCE!!!

this from an essay from npgmc:




"What is 4 sure, however, is that, in spite of its many claims 2 the contrary, the recording industry has yet 2 provide evidence that P2P is actually detrimental 2 music making as an artistic endeavor, and even as a commercial venture. It is worth remembering, 4 xample, that sales of music CDs actually increased when Napster was at its peak, and declined after Napster was abruptly shut down. Even economists who thought that file sharing “should b” hurting the recording industry r now xpressing their doubts, based on what they say is simply not happening."

x-x-x-xx-x--x-x-xx-x--x-x-x-xx--x-x-x-x-x-x-x-xx--xx--x-x-
(thanks for theblueangel for digging this up)


okay so, if this site is supposed to represent prince's thoughts.....it would appear that he isnt even sure if file sharing actually hurts artists income...so, where did his figures come from?

anyone got any thoughts on that?






id like to copyright the word "edit" and charge ya all for using it..
[This message was edited Wed Oct 2 22:20:40 PDT 2002 by SkletonKee]

skeleton- again i think it has to be a matter of consistancy. When trying to establish a new policy, so to speak, it is helpful if one stays on one side of the fence. Why can't prince say that certain mediums do or don't hurt the income...it doesn't matter it should be the artists choice. That's what this is about, plain and simple, the artist should have the final say. If the artist wants to shoot himself in the foot for whatever reasons then i say bang. In the end an artist can't blame anyone else for any relative problems.

So in a nutshell, Prince has the right to do what he wishes with his creations whether it is right, wrong, or indifferent. We do not have a right to make decisions for him. Even if they would enhance his career, it just isn't our place...

joeycoco said:

Oh excuse me...I only said that based on what you had said...remember?
"I'm surprised prince.org hasn't been contacted yet for allowing fans to use Prince's image as an avatar. Maybe everyone with a site should just fucking take it down and show Prince it doesn't make a damn difference. Only thing it will do is ruin the online experience as a Prince fan. Oh wait, we still have npgmusicclub and it's exciting updates to look forward to. "

I thought you were saying that Prince.org HAD NOT received a letter. pardon me for your false statement??
and how come you haven't commented what I was told by him...about the space limitation he had on his website? Does it take up anyspace to provide a link? NO...so why did he tell me that then? because he wasn't just providing a link? perhaps? I still have the org note.

Shorty said:

Gawddamnit woman, are you that stupid? If you don't know which other sites have received C&D letters, how can you conclude that it says alot as to why and why not they might be going after some sites.

If it says a lot, then tell me what it says?



Because I know that what you read might not be what he was trying to say nor does it mean that what he told you is the truth. God knows I just found out you can't fucking read nor reason.

Now take your little org note and forward it to Blackwell if you haven't already. Jeez, most of you motherfuckers sure as hell didn't pass on the opportunity to download the files, but when someone's down you don't pass on the opportunity to kick him either.

I sincerely hope bootlegs will go way underground from now on, cutting you all off. All you want are fucking freebies anyway.

I also hope Prince will sue you for $150.000 for using that avatar. You righteous ass motherfuckers make me sick.

Berry said:

agreed...however, prince put a rather heavy charge per song...and when he himself admits that he isnt sure that p2p really take away money from the artist..how the @%!@ did he come up with that $150,000 charge per song???

btw:150,000 per song? :LOL: when has prince earned $150,000 off one of his songs? in the early 80's?

joeycoco said:[quote]

Shorty said:

Geeze..how many times do I have to say that I'm talking about Prince.org and M...that's it at the moment..since you haven't caught on..I'll spell it out for you slowey I mean joey..
The fact that Prince.org has not received a C&D letter says that Prince.org isn't doing ANYTHING wrong! hmm? ya think?
They didn't post the link...M did. Prince.org doesn't provide any prince pictures or music at all nor do they endorse or encourage it...they are in the clear, THAT's why they didn't receive a C&D letter. now can I leave the remaining logic up to you? probably not..hint..of the 2 sites I'm talking about which one was not in the clear?..which one provided Prince music with out permission? and which one received the C&D letter? is this getting through? hello? is anyone home?
...but hey...I'm just "that stupid" and you're boy fuckin' wonder who knows all things...





Oh you know huh? that's funny. yah I musta misiterpreted "i have 10mb worth of webspace for downloads." yeah...that's it. yeah...and maybe he did lie to me...that's entirely possible...but I guess he shouldn't have lied then...especially in print.
well..if you just found out that I can't read or reason then you must be pretty fuckin' slow yourself..cause I've been postin on this damn site forever..so...if you can't keep up take notes ok?



I have no intentions of forwarding anything to anyone...but thanks for the suggestion...I'll think about it now.
I'm not kickin anyone...that's your sad interpretation of things.


Freebies...that's hilarious coming from you! I hope you do go underground...way way underground.



well you must get sick every damn time you look in the mirror then...hmm must be hard for you...poor joey.

:LOL: here Joey let me pull those stained lil undies outta yer crack for ya...err umm..I can't reach them...they've been stuffed up there so far for so long that they must be permanently attached by now...sorry I can't help you. :LOL:

skeleton- He HAD to put a dollar sign on it...it's a lawsuit. And for it to be an effective one he should ask for the standard. I doubt that this will ever hit a jury. He is trying to be consistant and make a point...he doesnt want ANYONE else controlling his property. And, Prince might get links to whoever is actually doing the recordings and/or scare those from doing it anymore.

~Lank should have stopped when asked, he's in the hotseat now~ He's more than a violator...he's an example~

Maybe you can relate to this> I know when I grew up It was hard to save up enough money for a record album. I bought Purple Rain when it came out and it took me all summer to save for. But I also would copy albums on to cassette when I could not buy them, like almost every kid did or does. I bet Ol Prince copied a few albums from his freinds because I dont remember reading he was well off growing up. I got no problem with bootlegs of live shows outtakes ect. I buy them every damn week. Prince is a musician/buisiness man who has a right to mess with people. I just want to hear the shit and dont care about the F#@kin money. I am for bootlegs because half the time their better than half the stuff he puts out. What happened to the Prince that hated his record contract because he could only put out one album a year. I expected a flood wave of music after 2000. Look at the time span between albums lately. Long live the bootlegers and Prince. Dammit, I forgot my point.

Berry said:

prince? be consistent? hehehehhehhe...thats funny...

Phill- yes we all have recorded cassettes of "released" music! You are comparing apples and oranges.


Shouldn't Prince at least have a right to listen to HIS music before you? When bootleggers record a show, he loses all ownership and rights, because someone has taken it.


Off the wall analogy : how would you like to build a race car. Before you have even test driven it, someone else drives it. Takes it over to a friends house so they can go joyride in it. And all along, all that person has to say to you is "it shouldn't stay in the garage". Your work. Your time. Your baby. Your creation. But your "so-called" friend feels that because he doesnt think it belongs parked in the garage he has a right to take the keys and go drive it for you...

I dont know if my point is clear, this is a difficult one to articulate

As no-one answered my question, I shall add a little more... How can Prince say bootleggers are costing him money? that is impossible unless Prince intends to release all the live concerts, in full, that he has ever performed and that his fans actually PREFER to listen to badly recorded boots for at least twice the price. Is that at all likely? No, it's not. Although I must also point out that Prince IS being consistant, he's the same whining brat he always was.