By suing you for illegal possession of illegal recording

What illegal recordings...I don't have any!!!

AaronForever said:

Of course I haven't proven that it's illegal. That isn't my job. That is the responsibility of the judge that presides over the case. But prior cases-Napster, AudioGalaxy...set a precedent that can give you a clue as to the legal matters involved. I mean, really. How do you think lawyers argue cases like this? Of course I can't prove that what he did was illegal. I'm not a lawyer. And if I was, I'm still not the lawyer taking this case. But in reading the the relevant case literature...you'd have to be dumb as a rock not to see the similarities.

BlackandRising said:

You're comparing matthew's case to napster and audiogalaxy. The difference is, those services held a database of files to connect to, instead of something like Morpheus or Kazaa or (yuck) gnutella, which puts the users in touch with each other.

But, again, you're theorizing when you've said that we shouldn't theorize

One of the things I forgot to mention is that this shows some consistancy on Princes part. It's about artists rights over their creation. He is staying true to his cause. I commend him on that.

"Bootleggers are worse than the labels...they don't even have contracts!"

"I fail to see how one could enjoy the music so much, yet turn around and do something so blatenlty wrong and hurtful! YES, I said it! HURTFUL."
Come on you don't have to be so dramatic, there are a small minority of bastards, but the bootlegs business is mostly a labour of love and passion for the music, that is one of the many things that makes the difference beteween us fans, & usual music consumers

I'm an actor, but that's besides the point. I'm happy with the passionate way I expressed those points.

And facts are facts!
[This message was edited Tue Oct 1 23:30:31 PDT 2002 by Berry]

Berry said:

not even a tape with, let's say, "Wonderful Ass" or the famous 1988 Holland aftershow? (If so, I pity you hehe)

I pity you... I have a conscience.

Berry said:

OK, & Prince is not an "artiste maudit", Edgar Poe or Vincent Van Gogh,if what you've written is true, he would never have pre sold 25000 official Crystal Ball. I'm tired of his self centered bitterness, he always blames the others :record compagnies, (I know the system sucks but he & his lawyers had the right to think before the 1992 contract) fans, bootlegers, well soon everyone who doesn't share his jw paranoid views.

Berry said:

Come on, i was joking.We know you have a conscience

Indeed bootleggers are worse than the labels, have to agree with you there. The Myth that bootleggers live under is that they are genuine fans who are trying to get music to fellow fans Most of them get off on the idea they are some anti-establishment rebels, yet somehow feel the need to charge almost twice as much for their "product" than the establishment they so dislike. Selling bootlegs for profit sucks no doubt about it, but sharing music that wouldn't be otherwise available..and not doing it for profit..is great and in every artist's case adds enthusiasm and interest to their fan base. Prince himself thanked bootleggers .

I'm trying to look at this from an objective view. Prince has made it pretty clear what the rules are if you wish to be a part of his art/product/whatever. He has made it clear that he is human and he makes mistakes. He has made it clear that he cares about us with things such as Celebration. He has made it clear that he plays his way. He has also proven that he listens to his fans when he can. With this in mind we must have somewhere along the line agreed to these terms. If you don't, and you think you can change him, then you are in the wrong. Am I making sense?

I think he is handling this whole artists rights thing very well. He is just following through...

We're good jnoel

Berry said:

Are you an actress or a philosopher? No one tries to "change him", it's too late and he has surrounded himself with "yes men" & asskissers, and it's too easy to say "I'm human I make mistakes" (what a scoop!) and keeps going to do the same again and again

Berry said:

merci

AaronForever said:

Of course I'm comparing it to Napster and AudioGalaxy...they're relevant. You're saying they're not because there are some minor differences in definitions?
And as far as theorizing, I meant that it's dangerous for a defendant to theorize about the law without actual counsel. Everytime someone states that Prince has no legal ground to stand on because he "provided a link but didn't host" most likely interjects Matthew with vigor, like it's actual legal counsel. I mean, for real...do you really think that going into this with his only defense being host vs. link is a good idea? Hell no. My opinions on the other hand have no bearing on what happens to him. But then, maybe he'll read them and think about what's happening.

jnoel- that scoop you refer to is the "rules". So be it. Just because we don't agree with some of his choices and moves does not justify disrespecting his wishes. More so his cause. I think whether it him or someone else, artists rights is a crucial movement.If we look at that, then bootlegging needs to stop at the request of an artist...whoever that may be.

Berry said:

oh Berry, haven't you heard? Prince needs to be taught a lesson...and matthew was "just" the person to do (or so he thinks)...

I only know that this Matthew has a website on Me’shell and that he’s a P fan, I suppose that he’s not a member of the organized Crime and that he’s mostly a « music lover »( I hope that P won’t sue me to use this expression) , Berry said that « you have to start somewhere », maybe that after freemyheart Prince will sue his uncompetent lawyers who didn’t tell him a thing about the masters when he signed the fabulou$ 100 millions contract, that would be a great target for « a millionaire with an amazing legal team »

I have not, and am not, judging Prince's previous decisions. One, I don't know all the details. Two, it's irrelevent to this situation (in my eyes). I also don't know ALL of the details. I imagine only the poeple involved do.

The point is, is that it is about artists rights to control their creation. If an artist says I don't want you to video tape this or record it... then who are we to say otherwise?

What IF (capital IF), this caused him to stop performing live altogether??? Then we ALL are out of luck...
[This message was edited Wed Oct 2 1:00:59 PDT 2002 by Berry]

lovemachine said:

So?...you going to go into court with that defense? "But Prince said before in an interview that he liked bootleggin..he did he did!?"..Never mind the fact that he recently sent a cease and decist letter. Years ago I liked throwing wild parties...if someone came over with a keg and wouldnt leave just becasue I used to be wild,theyd still have to leave..

Berry said:

Booh fuckin hoo!Prince could visit Africa & talk to african musicians maybe that will bring him some perspective...

Well said Berry.

I agree.

Lanker was warned in writing to refrain from posting music he doesn't own and he chose to ignore this. He was well aware of the consequences. If he is unemployed and in financial difficulties he should have been more wise than to defy a legal, written warning.

In conclusion the music is Prince's. That is undisputable and undeniable. He is the creator and the owner of the work and it is his right to pursue his work as he wishes.

Prince's attitude toward bootlegs is well known amongst the Prince community and throughout the entire industry.

If Lanker had heeded the original warning he would not be embroiled in a legal dispute now and he would not be facing financial ruin.

Lanker has chosen the bed in which he lies and I for one, feel little sympathy for him.

Blah blah blickety blah, it's all been said before. It's out of his control now - he can embrace it & take control OF it, or sue until Londell runs out of dress suits. P can't stop performing, where's the joy in that?

Is everyone missing the point? This is Prince's art not yours or mine. It is his everyright to do what he wishes with it. So if he feels he needs to have total control of it so be it. IT'S HIS ART.

Berry said:

Prince isn't going to stop touring anytime soon because it's basically his only source of income. He makes maybe a million from the club and TRC sold 120,000 so that's another half million dollars, but to someone with Paisley and all the houses this isn't a lot of money.

So believe me here Prince is not going to stop touring NO MATTER what. Have you noticed how frequent the tours have become in the last few years? This is because he really needs people to shell out $125 a ticket to keep his lifestyle at the level that he is used to. There is nothing wrong with this, but it does mean that he won't stop touring.




.
[This message was edited Wed Oct 2 7:02:35 PDT 2002 by lovemachine]

i'm wit ya 100% Berry. What many people fail to realize on here is that it's not about your personal feelings for an artist and trying to get back at them. This is about a law, and a person who knowingly breaks said law, even after it was nicely pointed out to him many times, even after lawyers sent a letter clarifying any confusion there may have been over whether something is legal or not. Even posting a link to bootleg downloads is illegal. But Matthew did far more than that. Read back through his posts and you will see he is the one responsible for posting the bootlegs, too. So meanwhile he has been lying to the media about not doing anything wrong. Matthew digs his hole deeper every day.

I'll add my


1. You shouldn't bootleg material especially if you've been "asked" not to. I had ample opportunity to record at the Celly (just for my personal use), but decided against it. And before anyone starts the "FAMS" business, not I am not. I just respected his wishes and had a good time.

2. Technology is overruning the music business. 10 years ago this was not the problem. Boots were just too expensive for the average person. Hell, I couldn't afford them then and only have a few now. However, when you can mass produce many CDs or use P2P then what do you expect. You either keep up with the times or lose out. In a big way Prince is losing out. Monetarily anyway.

3. If Prince decided to release half of the so called "vault" material legally then he wouldn't have to charge $125-$150 per seat for a General Admission Concert. He wouldn't have to worry about bootleggers. He'd have more than enough material to distribute himself. With all the profits going to him. Do you really think he's been sitting on his ass for the past few years? No, he still recording and that means, " Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money." But, only if he releases it. Prince could have put out ONA Live or Xenophobia months ago, but chose not to, so someone took advantage of the demand and made $$$ (People this is a basic business rule, "Supply & Demand)

If people didn't want to hear the music, would bootlegger still be in business? NO!!!

I'm not on anyone's side really, however a psuedo threat was made and Prince acted and here we stand today. However, the ironic thing is: Didn't he make this same threat to WB. "OK, I can only make one record a year with you so, I'll change my name and make as many as I want." Sound familiar.


Now, when he did this business with the web-sites a few years ago, Yes that was very wrong and did cost him (IMO) a huge part of his fan base. Which I feel is one more reason why ticket sales are so high.

I love Prince, really I do, but sometimes I just can't put up with the shit he do.


So let's stop arguing over opinion, ok?

Everyone and call it a day.

There was never a case brought to court against Audiogalaxy...Just a lil FYI.