MajesticOne89 said:

That's a catagory of "hater"?

Imago said:

The thing i have learned about Prince and his music and just any artist with longevity, if you are going to constantly compare something new with something old you are always going to be let down, so why bother. Stop picking up every Prince record and long for COMPUTER BLUE or something else, if thats what you want then pull out Purple Rain and have a big ole party. I have said this time and time again to Prince fans and just fans of any artist, you cant compare today with yesterday, they were different and so were you. The other day I was thinking back to my Senior year of high school and Slippery When Wet by Bon Jovi was the big album and i played it to death that summer and i thought of girlfriends i had at that time, and then i pulled out the cd threw it on, and you know what, i couldnt recapture how i felt, u know why??? Because it wasnt 1987 again, I wasnt a Senior in High School, those girlfriends have long since married and gone on, my current girlfriend only knows Bon Jovi for Have A Nice Day, so shit changes, get over it, its just music and life.

this thread right here.. should be a sticky .. ..

you know what i found myself thinking about is that we've had this man doing his thing for close to 30 years! think of the tragic genuises who never got to 5, 10, let alone 20 plus albums, like Hendrix, Cobain, Holliday, etc. Their legacy gets frozen in time and we always wonder what COULD have been as we, non-artists (most of us) wax nostalgic. I'm glad to witness his longevity as an artist. He does NOT exist to pander to MY expectations of him. I collect the albums, appreciate the diversity and always find gems in each of them and always find myself disagreeing with what others think is "crap."

datdude said:

thanks tricky99 for your thoughts.
they made me laugh and i agree w/alot of your points.
perhaps 'categorizing the haters' will save me some time in the future.
for example, i already know when i see certain posters, i pass on reading 'em . . .
your index may be helpful in 'filing the haters' under certain categories.

1) The wendy and Lisa groupies. Who give most of the credit to Prince's basic existence to these women. The curious thing is these two have not created one classic song let alone album without Prince. Chances are we wouldn't even know they exist without him.

Prince is one of a kind. I feel that we are still in the middle of the Prince story with many twists and chapers to go. He is simply better than most people can deal with. Too diverse, too prolific, too bold, and mostly too evolutionary. Those who can't really take it all in throw peanuts from the gallery. Prince is showing us what happens when a genuis musician does not implode but continues to grow and confront the music world. How does the world react to the genuis in their midsts?

At each fork in road of Prince's career there have been hatere. Many of which have been ex-fans who remind of bitter ex-lovers. Has there been a artist whose so-called fans had such a love/hate releationship with. The haters come in serveral categories:

1) The wendy and Lisa groupies. Who give most of the credit to Prince's basic existence to these women. The curious thing is these two have not created one classic song let alone album without Prince. Chances are we wouldn't even know they exist without him.

2) The non-religious nuts. Who are so perterbed about a man's spiritual beliefs that they somehow seem to think they reflect on their own. These same people had no problem with the nasty prince but must project their own religious issues onto Prince.

3) The troll. This poster doesn't even like prince maybe never has. They just hate that others love him. When u see their post u know it will be negative no matter what.

4) The "shit", "crap", "cringe" poster. There is no middle ground with these folks. They would have u believe that nothing Prince does has any musical merit to speak of.

5) The flavor of the moment poster. Who ever is hot right now is the "new" prince or their album is a better Prince album than whatever real Prince album is currently out. See Van Hunt, D'Angelo, Timberfuck, andre 3000, beck.


6) The 1984-1988 poster. Nothing Prince did before or after is much good for these folks (but they are still here lol).


7) The I only like one genre poster. Anything Prince does outside their narrow musical box is shit. They want more funk or less horns. always downgrade the R&B Prince as pandering (he's black y'all helllo!). On the flipside are those that if its not funky prince then its "corny".


8) The business poster. Always concerned with Prince's business decisions and why he is doing it. According to them Prince is a bad business man even though he has managed to have a successful and profitable career for 30 years. This poster is mad at prince for business decisions.

Whats your point? U are merely observing the obvious. Ppl are different and have different tastes and opinions. Ppl also all into traits. We all do and ur one of them on that list and so am I. Well done for staying awake in your sociology classes.

skywalker said:

very well said skywalker I hope this thread never dies because it is funny as hell and so freakin true. U have more people on here bitching about the above things that tricky listed then accepting Prince 4 who he is and what he's giving us. We r truly bless 2 still have him around and making music. I'm loving the journey he's taking me on Name me one artist who's still laying it down like Prince

But if ur favorite football superstar played badly in a match, u would say "he played crap" but it doesnt mean he IS crap

The more music Prince puts out the more he waters down his catalog...so that the average of his music will be ...eh.

IF he can't put out anything superb, I'd prefer that he just lay low and rejuvenate -- preserve the legacy and quality of reputation.

He's made great music, yes genius music in the past. I disagree with your idea that he's still "evolving" and "challenging" society. I wish he were.

I think a lot of people who gripe do so because they actually love Prince most and have very high expectations for him.

Those who gush over every little mediocre single with silly titles and sillier lyrics are the ones who devalue Prince.

He's capable of much better and I always hope with news of each new record that he's tapping into that dormant genius.
.
.
[Edited 7/17/07 16:43pm]

Prince is one of a kind. I feel that we are still in the middle of the Prince story with many twists and chapers to go. He is simply better than most people can deal with. Too diverse, too prolific, too bold, and mostly too evolutionary. Those who can't really take it all in throw peanuts from the gallery. Prince is showing us what happens when a genuis musician does not implode but continues to grow and confront the music world. How does the world react to the genuis in their midsts?

At each fork in road of Prince's career there have been hatere. Many of which have been ex-fans who remind of bitter ex-lovers. Has there been a artist whose so-called fans had such a love/hate releationship with. The haters come in serveral categories:

1) The wendy and Lisa groupies. Who give most of the credit to Prince's basic existence to these women. The curious thing is these two have not created one classic song let alone album without Prince. Chances are we wouldn't even know they exist without him.

2) The non-religious nuts. Who are so perterbed about a man's spiritual beliefs that they somehow seem to think they reflect on their own. These same people had no problem with the nasty prince but must project their own religious issues onto Prince.

3) The troll. This poster doesn't even like prince maybe never has. They just hate that others love him. When u see their post u know it will be negative no matter what.

4) The "shit", "crap", "cringe" poster. There is no middle ground with these folks. They would have u believe that nothing Prince does has any musical merit to speak of.

5) The flavor of the moment poster. Who ever is hot right now is the "new" prince or their album is a better Prince album than whatever real Prince album is currently out. See Van Hunt, D'Angelo, Timberfuck, andre 3000, beck.


6) The 1984-1988 poster. Nothing Prince did before or after is much good for these folks (but they are still here lol).


7) The I only like one genre poster. Anything Prince does outside their narrow musical box is shit. They want more funk or less horns. always downgrade the R&B Prince as pandering (he's black y'all helllo!). On the flipside are those that if its not funky prince then its "corny".


8) The business poster. Always concerned with Prince's business decisions and why he is doing it. According to them Prince is a bad business man even though he has managed to have a successful and profitable career for 30 years. This poster is mad at prince for business decisions.

Prince is one of a kind. I feel that we are still in the middle of the Prince story with many twists and chapers to go. He is simply better than most people can deal with. Too diverse, too prolific, too bold, and mostly too evolutionary. Those who can't really take it all in throw peanuts from the gallery. Prince is showing us what happens when a genuis musician does not implode but continues to grow and confront the music world. How does the world react to the genuis in their midsts?

At each fork in road of Prince's career there have been hatere. Many of which have been ex-fans who remind of bitter ex-lovers. Has there been a artist whose so-called fans had such a love/hate releationship with. The haters come in serveral categories:

1) The wendy and Lisa groupies. Who give most of the credit to Prince's basic existence to these women. The curious thing is these two have not created one classic song let alone album without Prince. Chances are we wouldn't even know they exist without him.

2) The non-religious nuts. Who are so perterbed about a man's spiritual beliefs that they somehow seem to think they reflect on their own. These same people had no problem with the nasty prince but must project their own religious issues onto Prince.

3) The troll. This poster doesn't even like prince maybe never has. They just hate that others love him. When u see their post u know it will be negative no matter what.

4) The "shit", "crap", "cringe" poster. There is no middle ground with these folks. They would have u believe that nothing Prince does has any musical merit to speak of.

5) The flavor of the moment poster. Who ever is hot right now is the "new" prince or their album is a better Prince album than whatever real Prince album is currently out. See Van Hunt, D'Angelo, Timberfuck, andre 3000, beck.


6) The 1984-1988 poster. Nothing Prince did before or after is much good for these folks (but they are still here lol).


7) The I only like one genre poster. Anything Prince does outside their narrow musical box is shit. They want more funk or less horns. always downgrade the R&B Prince as pandering (he's black y'all helllo!). On the flipside are those that if its not funky prince then its "corny".


8) The business poster. Always concerned with Prince's business decisions and why he is doing it. According to them Prince is a bad business man even though he has managed to have a successful and profitable career for 30 years. This poster is mad at prince for business decisions.

The difference is that, unlike sports, art is subjective. In Football, "playing like crap" is not up for debate. You have scores/stats that factually state how you played-good or bad.

If Prince makes a good or "crap" album is just a matter of opinion and perspective. Sales and critics only illustrate popularity and more opinions.

I think art should only be sujective to a point. besides, you can sing out of tune, or create bad melody/harmony, crap lyrics, crap sounds, have a bad mix eg some parts too loud, some too soft, or bad chord/voice leading etc.

I think art can be objective as well, or else its a cop out isnt it. U could justify anything by a subjective rationale couldnt you?

Art shouldnt be a "well I like it" approach. if nobody places any value on that art, then besides u, its meaningless and pointless.

Art should be about good self expression, that others understand or can relate to. Art HAS to be about the audience, and fan reaction. They are what makes the artist. All good artists know that. Without fans, ur nothing.

For eg there was no point if I got up on stage, played a guitar, then walked off, and nobody liked it except me. U cant be selfish in art. It HAS to be about what others think or there is no point. U cannot place value on art all by urself. The value is placed by what others think.

If you write and play a song, and u cant find ONE person that thinks it was good or enjoyed, i think its fair to say that judgement has been made. Its CRAP - u either can or cannot conect with other ppl and ur art. It CAN be objective.

We are what other ppl think of us. THAT is what defines our existence.

you know what i found myself thinking about is that we've had this man doing his thing for close to 30 years! think of the tragic genuises who never got to 5, 10, let alone 20 plus albums, like Hendrix, Cobain, Holliday, etc. Their legacy gets frozen in time and we always wonder what COULD have been as we, non-artists (most of us) wax nostalgic. I'm glad to witness his longevity as an artist. He does NOT exist to pander to MY expectations of him. I collect the albums, appreciate the diversity and always find gems in each of them and always find myself disagreeing with what others think is "crap."

Prince is one of a kind. I feel that we are still in the middle of the Prince story with many twists and chapers to go. He is simply better than most people can deal with. Too diverse, too prolific, too bold, and mostly too evolutionary. Those who can't really take it all in throw peanuts from the gallery. Prince is showing us what happens when a genuis musician does not implode but continues to grow and confront the music world. How does the world react to the genuis in their midsts?

At each fork in road of Prince's career there have been hatere. Many of which have been ex-fans who remind of bitter ex-lovers. Has there been a artist whose so-called fans had such a love/hate releationship with. The haters come in serveral categories:

1) The wendy and Lisa groupies. Who give most of the credit to Prince's basic existence to these women. The curious thing is these two have not created one classic song let alone album without Prince. Chances are we wouldn't even know they exist without him.

2) The non-religious nuts. Who are so perterbed about a man's spiritual beliefs that they somehow seem to think they reflect on their own. These same people had no problem with the nasty prince but must project their own religious issues onto Prince.

3) The troll. This poster doesn't even like prince maybe never has. They just hate that others love him. When u see their post u know it will be negative no matter what.

4) The "shit", "crap", "cringe" poster. There is no middle ground with these folks. They would have u believe that nothing Prince does has any musical merit to speak of.

5) The flavor of the moment poster. Who ever is hot right now is the "new" prince or their album is a better Prince album than whatever real Prince album is currently out. See Van Hunt, D'Angelo, Timberfuck, andre 3000, beck.


6) The 1984-1988 poster. Nothing Prince did before or after is much good for these folks (but they are still here lol).


7) The I only like one genre poster. Anything Prince does outside their narrow musical box is shit. They want more funk or less horns. always downgrade the R&B Prince as pandering (he's black y'all helllo!). On the flipside are those that if its not funky prince then its "corny".


8) The business poster. Always concerned with Prince's business decisions and why he is doing it. According to them Prince is a bad business man even though he has managed to have a successful and profitable career for 30 years. This poster is mad at prince for business decisions.

skywalker said:

I think art should only be sujective to a point. besides, you can sing out of tune, or create bad melody/harmony, crap lyrics, crap sounds, have a bad mix eg some parts too loud, some too soft, or bad chord/voice leading etc.

I think art can be objective as well, or else its a cop out isnt it. U could justify anything by a subjective rationale couldnt you?

Art shouldnt be a "well I like it" approach. if nobody places any value on that art, then besides u, its meaningless and pointless.

Art should be about good self expression, that others understand or can relate to. Art HAS to be about the audience, and fan reaction. They are what makes the artist. All good artists know that. Without fans, ur nothing.

For eg there was no point if I got up on stage, played a guitar, then walked off, and nobody liked it except me. U cant be selfish in art. It HAS to be about what others think or there is no point. U cannot place value on art all by urself. The value is placed by what others think.

If you write and play a song, and u cant find ONE person that thinks it was good or enjoyed, i think its fair to say that judgement has been made. Its CRAP - u either can or cannot conect with other ppl and ur art. It CAN be objective.

We are what other ppl think of us. THAT is what defines our existence.

I agree. However, in Prince's case, determining what is good and bad about his work/output is splitting hairs. There are enough Prince fans in the world that an enormous amount of people love even the "least " of his albums.

Example: Many people around here profess their love for the album New Power Soul.

Bottom line: Prince has had, and will always have, a sizeable enough fanbase that everything he does is of some importance. His art is always being recognized/analyzed etc. Unlike an athlete's performance, it is not so easy to measure the quality of say, Planet Earth. You can only measure popular taste/reception and that is not really the barometer for the quality of art.

What this thread was originally about is the Prince fans who are basically fronters and pretend that it is a burden to be a Prince fan. That's going beyond simply expressing your opinion.

tricky99 said:

This is so ridiculous. According to you, Prince is critic-proof since any critcism of his work will be just a 'hater' and so their opinion can be dismissed. God, you people sure love your categories and labels don't you? With us or against us, eh?

Prince is fallible just like any other human being. All I ask from Prince is that he writes good songs. I don't care what fucking genre he does it in whether it be funk, pop or tinpan alley. But at the same time, 'diversity' does not equal 'great'. For example PLanet Earth is a very diverse album in terms of music BUT the songs themselves are not well-written. Do you understand this difference?

PurpleHouse said:

OMG. I cannot believe what I just read.

I think you are confusing entertainment with art. You're talking about entertainment.

Art can have value to just one person and be meaningful. It is absolutely not about the audience and fans. LOL. In fact the security NOT to pander and be conscious or responsive to fans is the distinction between entertainer and artist. And artist creates for himself, for the principle, for the truth he's obsessed with. An entertainer creates for fans.

And no 'what people think of us' does not define our existence.

That was a really sad post. Being an individualist I really wasn't aware people thought like this.

SynthiaRose said:

Being an individualist means you know you are not a collectivist. Which means you DO know other people think like this.

Well by nature I am an individualist when it comes to "unalienable rights" but I dont think you read my post carefully enough. I never once said "sales" or "profits".. mechanisms that guide the entertainment industry.

But u HAVE to accept that art is about YOUR self expression... to others! That is why u created that art. That is what gives u the buzz, the drive to be artistic, know that u can communicate your thoughts and feelings to others who appreciate it.

U can create art for urself and never let others hear it I suppose. And as usual there are exeptions to the rule. I wouldnt want to ask those ppl how much porn they have on their computer, or why they dont have a girl/boyfriend!

lol.

Being an individualist means you know you are not a collectivist..