I've been introducing a good friend of mine to the music of Prince lately and he was ASTOUNDED by The Rainbow Children (funny how many older fans just don't 'get' it).

Anyway, I thought he had a really interesting description for it : 'Miles Davis with vocals'. Does anyone agree with this??

onenitealone said:

What do you mean?


Somewhat.

I hear the faint strains of that Fender Rhodes the same way Miles used to use it on some of his material.

Both prolific.
Both Geminis.
Both kooks!

Hi Supernova - I just meant the album seems to divide a LOT of older fans. Some love it, some hate it (I happen to think it's one of his BEST ever works; it gets better & better with each listen). It's just great to see a new fan appreciating his newer stuff, instead of begging for 'Raspberry Beret' or 'Gett Off'.

I don't actually own any Miles Davis albums (isn't that terrible??!). Maybe I should go shopping today!

onenitealone said:

Ah. I see. Yeah, my older brother didn't have the patience for it either and he was once a hardcore Prince fan - but he's become a FAT CAT, so he's not enthused by checking out much new music anyways.

Most of the people that I expose to it love it though. The majority just doesn't realize Prince is still even recording anymore! If it's not force fed to them they're not gonna seek out the good stuff.

But yeah, the first time I listened to it I got a Miles Davis feel from the keys a bit.

onenitealone said:

Ha! I take it you're in shock! I'll take that as a warning.
I LOVE 'Can I Play With U?', though. Fantastic groove.

I know what you mean, though - I'm sick & tired of explaining to my friends/colleagues, etc., that he's still alive/recording/etc.. THEIR loss.

I just listened to Jimi Hendrix' 3rd stone from the sun.
No Miles Davis, but i reminded me of the Rainbow Children. It's also a sort of free jazz song, including a slowed down voice.
What do you think?

onenitealone said:

I agree..its not like when Miles went electric with On The Corner etc, or Dlkan plugging in, but its dividing the fans somewhat akin to when Dylan went full on spiritual in the seventies.

Edance said:

Yep. That slowed down voice is on all three of Jimi's albums - the studio albums he completed during his lifetime. It's used differently though; not as narration for the entire album (like TRC).

It's used on the first tracks of Axis: Bold As Love, and Electric Ladyland respectively.

But I can't really tell what the voice is saying on EL or on "Third Stone From The Sun" from his debut album. It's been so long since I've listened...

I honestly dont understand why so many fans always try to connect the Rainbow Children with a jazz album. TRC is NOT a jazz record at all, it has SOME jazzy elements (as heard in the title song ans "Muse 2 .." But Prince always had jazzy influences... thats nothing new. however, it shows the lack of knowledge about jazz if somebody conncets TRC with Miles Davis because Chick Corea has played the Rhodes on a few of Miles' albums... if anything, TRC is a FUNK album, considering trax such as "The everlasting now", "1+1+1=3", "The Work", etc..

soulpower said:

Who said it was?


Even that's not 100% accurate.

Supernova said:

Im not positive but i believe that the slowed-down vocal on "Third Stone" are parts of the same dialog he recites during the track.There is a 9 1/2 minute version on the 2000 Box set which has the complete dialog tacked on the beginning of the track.It doesn't contain the slow bits, tho.It sounds like they were having a lot of fun

Supernova said:

Yeah me too

I own a mighty big collection by:

Billie Holiday-The largest collection.

Teddy Wilson

Charlie Parker

MrTation said:

See, I'm so late with this, I had forgotten all about the Hendrix box set. Thanks for reminding me!


I need to get SRV's too.

TRC is not in any way close to resembling any music by Miles Davis. I am a very enthusiastic Miles Davis fan,

and I especially like his work in the hard electric period period from 1967 to 1976.

TRC hasn't anything to do with Miles, actually I will claim that TRC is not Miles Davis-inspired at all whereas the most Miles-ish work by Prince by far is The Black Album.

Just check out the horn riff in "Rockhard In A Funky Place"...

jalokin said:

Oh, jeezzz...

Supernova said:

Actually, you may never co-sign me again, Nova - I only have 3 Miles Davis Albums...

'Round About Midnight
Kind of Blue
Ascenseur Pour L'Echafaud (soundtrack)

Anybody wanna tell me what to buy next? I remember returning Birth of the Cool, maybe Sketches of Spain too (it's been so long, I can't remember)...

GUIDE ME, folks!

Supernova said:

many peeps on the org have been saying that, I know you dont belong to them
and I said that "IF ANYTHING" TRC is a funk album... which means that if you wanna categorize this record, then a FUNK album would be the closest in my opinion

CalhounSq said:

I think you might be ready for:
- Milestones
- E.S.P.
- Nefertiti
- Sketches of Spain

and then you might thirst for

- Miles in the Sky
- Big Fun
- Bitches Bre

onenitealone said:

I highly recommend Kind Of Blue and Porgy and Bess, but I like the more ethereal, ambient Gil Evans-kind of Miles rather than the earlier bop or electric freakout he went into.

If you're looking for Rainbow-Children type music, try Miles from Bitches Brew, Live Evil etc...

I got a ton of Miles Davis Stuff&Nothing On "Ranbow Children" Reminds me of Miles.the only reason why Miles would be mentioned is because during 85-89 Miles stuff got real Watered Down&He did just about anything&after a while that Cold Synth,Drum Program Vibe Sunk His Horn&Overall Vibe IMHO.but His Late 60's to Mid 70's Electric Period was straight up Wicked&had a Early Hip-Hop Element Going on.they both have been Risk Taking Artists but except Miles did it like 5 times Over.Miles always had Challenging Musicians to Play with as well.Najee isn't gonna Channel you to Miles Davis.well Maybe the Miles Davis that works as a Usher at a Yanni Concert selling Peanuts?

soulpower said:

What we need SOUL POWER
Got to have it SOUL POWER
...I've always wanted to break into that song when I see your name. Anywho...

OK.

Let me clarify: when I said "somewhat" as I agreed with the person who started the thread, I was talking about a couple of specific small snippets on TRC: short, faint strains of dissonant chords and Blackwell's high hat in a couple of spots on the album. When I first heard it there are certain parts of Bitches Brew it brought to my mind immediately (the first 8 seconds of "Mellow" for example). That's not to say that TRC is any way like Bitches Brew , nor nearly as unconventional as Bitches Brew. The Rhodes by itself is more in line with Herbie Hancock's "Butterfly" early in that song from the Thrust album, and/or the Rhodes playing by soul artists like Donny Hathaway or some others. The songs themselves are nothing remotely like BB.


Fair enough. That's probably true, and it could also be called a Soul album, if you ask me. But it's obviously his most jazzy INFLUENCED album than any album he's released. Just like Steely Dan were jazzy, but weren't a jazz group. See that's the great thing about Prince - you can't pin most of his music down into a nice neat one-named category. And believe me that's the way he likes it.

CalhounSq said:

You have unrevokable co-sign privileges, amiga. Even if there are bumps along the way (that damn Chris Webber, that damn "Arms of Orion," that damn...whatever it is coming next!)

Currently I'm enamored with A Tribute To Jack Johnson. I don't know if it's your type of music or not. It's fusion, but it's much more accessible than his most famous fusion record: Bitches Brew. Bitches Brew is not for everybody. Not an easy listen for the first time. And if you end up like it at all it might take a while.

Jack Johnson is only 2 compositions the entire album's length. And actually Jack Johnson has more guitar playing than Miles' trumpet.

Things you have to remember when dealing with Miles' music: he has a HUGE catalogue. Think of Prince at his regular recording pace for 40+ years and you get a general idea. And that's not even taking into account the music that Columbia is re-releasing that wasn't released during Miles' lifetime, PLUS all his live material, which at the moment Prince has none except on the bootleg market so far.

And just as with Prince, from album to album no two albums were exactly the same with Miles. I know what you mean about Sketches of Spain, it's not for everybody though it's lauded like most of his albums. See, Miles marched to the beat of his own percussion army - regardless of what longtime fans and purists said. Sound familiar?

mistermaxxx said:

Not quite.

Cut me baby..
[This message was edited Tue Sep 24 13:56:19 PDT 2002 by Supernova]

Supernova & Soulpower

THANK YOU for the recommendations (and the whole breakdown, Nova!). I think that's why I've been apprehensive to add more Miles to my collection - after striking out a few times & knowing his catalogue is frickin' HUGE, I just didn't know where to go. Coltrane seems easier to me, more predictable in terms of style (but I only have 5 of his, definitely gotta build that up too).

CalhounSq said:

coltrane more predictable? listen to "Giant Steps", then listen to "Ole", then listen to "OM"... and you will talk very different. coltrane might seem more predictable because he wasnt living long enough to get into fusion, hip hop, etc. but technically he masters his instrument better than miles did, coltrane was much more of a hard worker and a perfectionist. he is my favorite musician of all times, once you REALLY get in his groove and unerstand his playing, nothing will compare, no prince, no miles, nobody. he is the richest (talking about musical value) ever and must have been the most spiritual motherfucker who ever walked this planet. if everybody was like trane, the world would be such a beautiful place... when he died, he left a whole so big that all jazz fell through it.
Trane

soulpower said:

DAMN! Lemme shut up, I have no clue what I'm talking about!

I guess I should have said "consistent" instead of "predictable" - but I still haven't even scratched the surface with him, so "seems" would be the most operative word in that misguided statement. Yea, I should have just shut up...

Again, thank you, Soulpower!

writing these down

Soulpower

CalhounSq said:

my fav Coltrane albums:

- Blue Train (Blue Note)
- Giant Steps (Atlantic)
- Ole (Atlantic)
- My favorite things (Atlantic)
- Lush Life (Prestige)
- Coltrane (Impulse)
- A love supreme (Impulse)
- Live at the Village Vanguard (Impulse)
- John Coltrane and Duke Ellington (Impulse)
- Ballads (Impulse)
- Meditations (impulse)
- Africa/Brass (Impulse)
- Impressions (Impulse)
- the John Coltrane Quartet plays! (Impulse)
- Kulu Se Mama (Impulse)

My favorite still is "A love Supreme"... imo nothing beats that piece of music...

.
[This message was edited Wed Oct 2 3:25:35 PDT 2002 by suomynona]

soulpower said:

The ones I have are:

A Love Supreme
Lush Life
Blue Train
John Coltrane Collection Vol. 2 (Impulse)
Duke Ellington & John Coltrane

A Love Supreme is my favorite too - pure magic...

.
[This message was edited Wed Oct 2 3:25:53 PDT 2002 by suomynona]