mirrorbestfriend said:

do you do anything at all in ur life besides putting Prince's music under a microscope?!?!?!?!?!?

Get your thesaurus back out and try again. I know you're trying hard, but your title and statement say 2 different things.

I even think you're almost touching on something valid, but I know better.

If Prince's sound has bored you for 21 years now, why have you just come here in June of '07?

Riverpoet31 said:

I see what you are saying but I don't think you need to be "ground breaking" to be producing great music. Van in general still makes fantastic albums. "Magic Time", for example stands up very well against just about anything he did in his early career. Astral Weeks and Guru were definitely more groundbreaking and experimental. But Tupelo Honey, Moodance, St. Dominics fit perfectly with what he still does which is to bring great musicians together to make great albums. And he is every bit as prolific as Prince maybe even more so.

I do not expect Prince to be ground breaking just good. And he isn't good anymore. Live he can't be touched. On album he makes disposable pop that wouldn't be excusable on some teeny bopper, bubble gum, American Idol twits first album. There are a few exceptions of course but as a rule he is recording crap.

I say stick to the live torrents if you want to hear what the man is capable of and avoid the disposable albums. He obviously doesn't even care about them.

Riverpoet31 said:

Except Rainbow Children is Prince's finest work in twenty years.

Couldn't it be said that Prince has ALWAYS made pop music. You call it disposable, but I call it everything from "Soft and Wet" to "Lolita". Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems like you really don't like Prince making "pop" music.

And calling Prince "recording crap" is a HUGELY biased overstatement.

roanmairin said:

since 1982?

skywalker said:

Ehhh....most of the time I really dig what you write here but do you really, honestly, seriously LIKE Lolita ?

I wasn't saying that I necessarily like Lolita--I certainly don't hate it. I was making the point that Prince has ALWAYS had his share of silly little pop songs. Lolita can be enjoyed as such. Furthermore, Lolita is a throwback type of Prince song and more fun than anything on The Rainbow Children. Read what I said-not "better" just more fun. It is what it is meant to be. Certainly better than Jughead or Call the Law.

for me the prince sound is like washing your teeth - raspberry beret, i could never take the place...and the 1 u wanna c fits right in

stay enjoying, stop moaning

oh, and stop hanging around music shops

skywalker said:

Ah, okay then....but I really like Call The Law....seriously, I´d prefer Call The Law over that horrible song named Lolita any day, even Tony M´s rapping on it is not as bad as those horrible lyrics in Lolita and that cheesy music. Sure, it does bring back memories of The Time ( with that "Fellas!" "Yeah!" , and the synthlines and so on, which makes it even worse ) but I find it sooo horrible that I have made a copy of 3121 without that song so I don´t have to skip it or program my cd player any more, that´s how much I despise that song. Call The Law on the other hand is a nice, laid back tune that I pop in from time to time .


But hey, it´s all good..we all have different tastes.

And this debate will fortunately go on indefinitely.

As someone asked on another thread, “What defines a good song”?

Why of course a good person with good taste.

"TRC" has received more hate than I can calculate. Do I care? Not beyond what it represents.

If most were excited, I'm afraid it would often turn out to be a wildly acceptable piece of entertainment that just so happens to fit within the current mainstream parameters. That’s hardly what I’m looking for (although sometimes these world’s do adjoin- - just look at “Purple Rain”.)

Not that anyone should care in the least, but I’m moved by emotional, logical or intellectual truth, not by hate.

I would truly welcome the hate, as hate rarely did anything but counter the passion. And if there is little passion, there will be little hate. They work like a hand to a glove.

Fortunately there is still passion, therefore there is still plenty of hate.

Just try and start months of passionate discourse about the greatness of “For You” or “Xpecation”. I just don't think you'll find enough people who are passionate about those albums to produce lasting hatred; at least not beyond their initial release dates.

And the strangest thing of all about art appreciation in my opinion? What doesn't move you, will likely never stir you. And what does move you, will likely be responded to accordingly.

I'm still being moved. Not nearly as often as by the 80s, but certainly by some extraordinary music.

If others don't hear it, I can't much do anything about it. They can't listen to music through my ears anymore than I can listen through theirs.

Again, I ask you, who do you make music for?

The people with the good taste, right? Somehow I think were back to everybody again!

KoolEaze said:

Exactly--one person's "Call the Law" is another's "Lolita"...

Brendan said:

Well said. Well said.

skywalker said:

Yes ! I´m out, good night, it´s late over here. Always enjoy your posts.

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printable version
Scale ingredients to servings
1 1/2 oz light rum
1 tbsp triple sec
1 banana
1 1/2 oz lime juice
1 tsp sugar
1 cherry

Combine all ingredients (except for the cherry) with 1 cup crushed ice in an electric blender. Blend at a low speed for five seconds, then blend at a high speed until firm. Pour contents into a champagne flute, top with the cherry, and serve.

Mars23 said:

didnt say it bored...bland

wlcm2thdwn said:

What makes a "real" fan and when did you become the great and magnificent arbiter of Prince fans?

The CD is shite. As a "real" fan, I feel qualified to make such an assessment. Anyone who says Planet Earth is as good as Lovesexy or SOTT makes me question how familiar they are with Prince's music.

wlcm2thdwn said:

I dunno .. .. granted I dont like all of what Prince does either, but the constant negative energy.. yuk .. im glad im not here everyday..

babooshleeky said:

i dig that ..

PapaSmurf said:

good point

roanmairin said:

I 100% totally disagree.

mirrorbestfriend said:

At the same time, I think those who like to compare the quality of music on "PE" to other albums made some 20 odd years ago need to move on with their lives, and allow it to mature and grow based on it's own individual merits...

Also, to call the CD "shite" is rather disrectful of others opinions, isn't it? I don't think most civilized fans would take offense to a intelligently presented critique. But, when you're as blunt and ignorant as what's shown here, it's inappropriate IMHO...

Just my 2 cents.

NDRU said:

How was math in school for you? Tricky I bet.

As I get older, I am finding more joy in introducing Prince's back catalogue to friends of mine who never understood my love for him and are getting hooked on some of his new and accessible (though in some of our eyes, inferior) music. I am not one of those fams who expects or even wants 1987 to happen again...it already happened and man, it was glorious! I would MUCH rather get my hands and ears on the unreleased stuff made THEN then hear Prince try to recapture it. Some of you, if you'll pardon a snobby literary reference, are "waiting for Godot." In my opinion, when you do that, life is miserable and being a fan is not fun anymore. I keep my focus on the fact that there's only one letter's difference between "fan" and "fun," and that's "u." (Okay...that was bad!)

At any rate, one discussion that comes up here frequently and might deserve some mentioning again (and it might have been covered here a bit already) is the notion of Prince allowing himself to COLLABORATE on some level. Already on this thread, one of you mentioned the career resurgence of Johnny Cash, which worked because he allowed himself to be produced by someone who adored him as a fan (Rick Rubin). Rubin's adoration of Cash (as well as other artists he's produced) allowed Cash the security to trust someone with only the best interest of the music at heart...someone who could hear the old stuff clear as day and see a future that held hands with the past. Cash had firm control over the song choices on the American recordings, but allowed his "greatest fan" to have imput in terms of the sound. And those are amazing albums.

Perhaps an even BETTER example to compare to Prince is Paul McCartney. Who else besides Prince and McCartney has been so criticized for having genius tracks next to shlock on one cd? Fans always said that McCartney's problem was that he never allowed anyone to get close to him and his music enough to tell him that songs like "No More Lonely Nights" and "Silly Love Songs" were schmaltzy garbage, cheezy pop-lite. There was no outside quality control...just Macca's whim on a disc. The same has been true with Prince since he cut the cord with Wendy & Lisa, or anyone else who was strong enough to get an idea through to Prince and his unique, strong vision.

The good news? McCartney gave in to working with good producers on his last two albums and has seen a resurgence in the overall quality of his work. When "Chaos and Creation in the Backyard" came out, there was much publicity about his head-butting with Nigel Godrich. Paul almost ripped his head off! And it's a great cd by Paul's recent standards. Then he finds another produced for "Memory Almost Full" and captures music that is uniquely his but finds an ear who pulls the Beatles back out of him. Also a good cd!

I can only imagine Prince doing the same thing if he ever took to a collaboration with someone...perhaps a better-quality album overall but then a burnt bridge for the relationship because the collaboration is not Prince's typical work style.

I am looking forward to getting into Planet Earth as much as I look forward to every new Prince creation. Like everyone else, I have my favorites and least favorites, but I have yet to hear a Prince album with NOTHING on it that excites me. So if I get two or three "almost classics" from PE, then it was worth it! After all, even though we love Sign O the Times, we can still prioritize, based on personal tastes, those tracks from best to worst. And so it goes with everything!

Peace on Planet Earth!
Keith/Kacey

Prince is 50 years old. Why would you expect anything else but middle of the road music from a middle-aged man? Prince, like Stevie, like the Rolling Stones, like Bruce, etc has established his legend... therefore he CAN afford to release albums that sound like he's on auto-pilot. Would you expect a 20 year old thoroughbred to still win horse races? Instead of raising your expectations of Prince you should probably raise your expectations of the current generation of artists out there. He's paid his dues so there's really nothing left for him to prove. Even though it's expected, I still find it remarkable that with each album people will complain for YEARS about the "blandness" Ironically, these people seem like the old and bitter has-beens.

Zah.
[Edited 7/16/07 11:06am]

wlcm2thdwn said:

There really aren't more people slamming Prince. This is just one of the repercussions of Prince being so diverse. There are some who appreciate his funk, There are some who appreciate his pop. There are some who appreciate his rock. There are some who appreciate his music overall. Then with every album (each year), there are some asshol-- people who are going scrutinize every single thing he does just for the sake of being argumentative on a message board yet will show up to every concert and purchase every download, album, etc... these folks are called fronters.

bsk3601 said:

he 49

skywalker said:

Shoutout to skywalker and Brendan! U are among my favorite posters. Always levelheaded and real. I don't alway agree but I always respect what u guys have to say.

Kacey725 said:

Good Post! Hey I like "silly love songs". I don't think we would be "better off" if Prince were produced by someone. The same arguments would exist except with a new one focused on Prince "selling out" his sound. Alot of the complaint comes from people who aren't that diverse in what they want from Prince. People tend to forget that the genius lies within Prince and not within themselves. Knowing Prince is the musical genuis and not I allows me to give a "pass" to songs I don't necessarily like on first listen. This is good because countless times I will revisit songs and get something entirely different from them. Any of these people who say I listened to such and such once or twice and deleted or gave it away aren't really fans. There is always a level of detail inherent in his work that takes time to understand.

mirrorbestfriend said:

mmmm... what??? when Lovesexy came out, many fans and producer type friends of mine said it was all CRAP and groaned that he had strayed from the path set forth in SOTT and Black Album. I remember clearly the disappointment in the silly rushed cheesy sounds and melodies of most of Lovesexy. Now it's looked at as a masterpiece.

I remember the same being said about the production and compositions of most of Parade (outside of two-three solid tracks).

I think Prince loves to completely axe his previous directions and even his previous fans from time to time, and if you really listen very closely, it all seems very calculated and masterful in hindsight, this new album certainly fits the same bill of destroying his previous expectations . Some of you seem completely unaware the confusion and general disappointment prince fans even had with SOTT when it came out, shitty charting, shitty silly songs (U Got The Look? HOt Thing?) compared to what they wanted (when Doves Cry)

I think that right now Prince has made a seductive album for all the housewives in the world... like it or not (I'm not kidding!). And for the first time since Let's Go Crazy, he is letting the mix sound noisy and busy even obscuring the vocals in a cloud of noise. All the lyrics are carefully aimed at a certain mentality as is the vibe and melody structures. It might not be aimed at you, and it might not be aimed at who you hang with, but he is definitely aiming with a target in mind, and he is still working on his own terms. He will ALWAYS strive to piss you off and surprise you in a negative way.