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tricky99 said: SquirrelMeat said: You are contradicting yourself. You are picking at someone for having a viewpoint, whilst stating your own. Why exactly is is ridiculous to question the talent left in Prince? Isn't that just debating opinion? Because it is exactly ridiculous to question his talent. Anyone who is that stupid should not even be posting. I could absolutely hate every prince song and still see the talent. If u don't think he has talent who exactly could have gone into the studio and produced 3121 song for song, instrument for instrument. Not 99.9% of the people walking this planet. So yes to question his talent is STUPID. But if you read the context it which the person made the statement, they were suggesting it was laziness. They are perfectly entitled to that opinion, without being fired down for stating it. Or being called stupid simply because you don't agree. . |
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skywalker said: How is their quite articulate post and valid opinion "wrecking the orbit of their entire prince world"? Your post comes across as more of a knee jerk reaction that that the original poster. Re-read my statement. I said that "the newest (Prince) album is wrecking ther orbit of their entire Prince world". How many times have we heard from fans that that Prince has "lost it" and "doesn't make them feel like 198whatever"? We hear it a lot. It has been the thing to say after a new Prince album-aka an kneejerk reaction-for a long time now. The funny thing is that people pretend that they were instantly in love with "classics" like Around the World in a Day and Lovesexy, when they actually pretty devisive albums when they 1st came out. I loved them when they came out. 
I think PE is pretty good, but I agree with the original post suggesting P doesn't seem to be trying anymore. The last three albums have been a bit throwaway pop. I think there is a lot of confusion around the idea that some people want Prince to return the the 80s. I think in most cases, they are not talking about the commercialism or even the sound itself, but the very fact that he used to stretch himself so much. That is what grew his fan base in the first place. Originality. The return to the 80s is in fact a return to pushing musical boundries. You are right, when "classic" albums came out, views were split. But no one ever called them bland. It was more, "wierd" or "all over the place". With the new material, the songwriting is just as strong, but musically, he seems content to be stuck in a rut. In 85, musically, Prince said he has just stratched the surface. It seems by 95, he reached the bottom. Prince is producing good tracks right now. But they don't become great tracks unless he injects them with more originality. Some have come close, but he ended up missing a trick. Fury is a good example. Gems like Illision coma, Love, Chelsea Rodgers will always surface, but in album terms, there doesn't seem to be any focus anymore. If P wants to take his foot off the pedal, more power to him. He deserves it, but I like many are greedy and want him to put his pedal to the metal again! . |
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skywalker said: . How many times have we heard from fans that that Prince has "lost it" and "doesn't make them feel like 198whatever"? We hear it a lot. Maybe that's because it's true. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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Fans can make excuses all we want but PE, 3121 and Musicology are weak albums by any standard. Check out the new White Stripes album for an end to end quality disc. Prince isn't even close to that level of quality anymore.
There are musicians like Van Morrison who are producing as good or better music than they ever have. It is sad because Prince has more talent and musical taste in his toe nail than most musicians have in their entire careers. He just doesn't have the producing skills to take it from the stage to the disc. And his ego won't allow someone with those skills to do it for him. Too bad really. I will always stand behind him, I have for almost 30 years, but I won't defend these weak albums anymore. That is blind fandom.  "What a lovely fat beat with a zompige baslijn" | |
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midnightmover said: skywalker said: . How many times have we heard from fans that that Prince has "lost it" and "doesn't make them feel like 198whatever"? We hear it a lot. Maybe that's because it's true. Maybe it's because many Prince fans are overly nostalgic, and very good at complaining that Prince hasn't recaptured their youth for them... "New Power slide...." |
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skywalker said: midnightmover said: Maybe that's because it's true. Maybe it's because many Prince fans are overly nostalgic, and very good at complaining that Prince hasn't recaptured their youth for them... :hmm2:Come on, that's not a fair statement...and U know it! | |
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VonMarie said: skywalker said: Maybe it's because many Prince fans are overly nostalgic, and very good at complaining that Prince hasn't recaptured their youth for them... :hmm2:Come on, that's not a fair statement...and U know it! Too true, not a fair statement. However, how can Prince please everyone? If this were the 80's, people would still be bitching about what he was releasing. Bottom line: at least half of appreciating art is what the listener/viewer brings to the table. Some fans have impossibly particular expectations. Many seem to want Prince to, not only recapture what he did in the 80's, but recapture how each individual felt when the 1st heard 1999. How is that fair or even possible? "New Power slide...." |
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roanmairin said: Fans can make excuses all we want but PE, 3121 and Musicology are weak albums by any standard. Check out the new White Stripes album for an end to end quality disc. Prince isn't even close to that level of quality anymore.
There are musicians like Van Morrison who are producing as good or better music than they ever have. It is sad because Prince has more talent and musical taste in his toe nail than most musicians have in their entire careers. He just doesn't have the producing skills to take it from the stage to the disc. And his ego won't allow someone with those skills to do it for him. Too bad really. I will always stand behind him, I have for almost 30 years, but I won't defend these weak albums anymore. That is blind fandom. Planet Earth isn't weeek !  | |
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SquirrelMeat said: I think PE is pretty good, but I agree with the original post suggesting P doesn't seem to be trying anymore. The last three albums have been a bit throwaway pop.
imho, alot of people tend to look back at the 80's as though none of those albums contained any "throwaway pop". With established musicians, people tend to remember the classics and tend to forget the filler. In reality, for every AnnaStesia moment of sheer genius he had back then, he had about five "Party Up" moments. Personally, I'm digging that he's returning to some of his simple, minimalistic pop roots and losing alot of the forced overproduction that's plauged alot of his recent releases. Granted, they aren't all genre-busting classics, but that's always been the case. At least with this release, I like more than what I dislike, and a couple of tracks I love. of course, ymmv . [Edited 7/12/07 11:08am] "What kind of fuck ending is that?" | |
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imho, alot of people tend to look back at the 80's as though none of those albums contained any "throwaway pop". With established musicians, people tend to remember the classics and tend to forget the filler. In reality, for every AnnaStesia moment of sheer genius he had back then, he had about five "Party Up" moments. Personally, I'm digging that he's returning to some of his simple, minimalistic pop roots and losing alot of the forced overproduction that's plauged alot of his recent releases. Granted, they aren't all genre-busting classics, but that's always been the case. At least with this release, I like more than what I dislike, and a couple of tracks I love. Exactly. . "New Power slide...." |
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skywalker said: midnightmover said: Maybe that's because it's true. Maybe it's because many Prince fans are overly nostalgic, and very good at complaining that Prince hasn't recaptured their youth for them... Sorry, but with all due respect that's horse shit. I haven't heard anything to suggest people "want Prince to recapture their youth for them". If they think his music was better in the 80s it may just be because it simply was. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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Those who are contradicting themselves are those who keep saying that Prince is finished and then next time he does a great show or releases a tune they are like "woaw, what a genius".
I have heard the same comments about Prince since 1988. In fact, even before. many thought he had lost it with ATWIAD. Many of you are professional winghers. Get over Prince. SquirrelMeat said: sarkozyiszeman said: Some Fans have been crying nearly continuously since 1989. He was already finished back then for many of you.
Just a few years ago, he was releasing a msterpiece called TRC and the same babies thought it was too adventurous and not "princely enough sounding" for them. Get over it. There is so much negativity going on around here. Saying you don't like an album is fine but questioning the talent left in Prince at the same time is simply ridiculous. Moreover it is just a matter of taste. I did not like Musicology at all. I liked 70% of 3121 and I dig 95% of PE. Who is right ? Nobody. Just a matter of taste. You are contradicting yourself. You are picking at someone for having a viewpoint, whilst stating your own. Why exactly is is ridiculous to question the talent left in Prince? Isn't that just debating opinion? [Edited 7/12/07 11:37am] | |
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roanmairin said: Fans can make excuses all we want but PE, 3121 and Musicology are weak albums by any standard. Check out the new White Stripes album for an end to end quality disc. Prince isn't even close to that level of quality anymore.
There are musicians like Van Morrison who are producing as good or better music than they ever have. It is sad because Prince has more talent and musical taste in his toe nail than most musicians have in their entire careers. He just doesn't have the producing skills to take it from the stage to the disc. And his ego won't allow someone with those skills to do it for him. Too bad really. I will always stand behind him, I have for almost 30 years, but I won't defend these weak albums anymore. That is blind fandom. I disagree with you. Again, it is just a matter of taste. You don't like his recent output... fine. Many others think differently from you. [Edited 7/12/07 11:40am] | |
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Examples of tunes, most fans would spit on if they were told they were recorded recently :
Wonderful Ass Teacher Teacher Slow Love It Hot Thing And there are many others. As soon asyou guys are aware it has been composed recently, you reject it. The tunes listed above are not as good as most tracks on PE. [Edited 7/12/07 11:43am] | |
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the 80s it may just be because it simply was.
What a wonderfully useless way to prove a point. "It is because it is..." is a crappy argument which requires the least amount of effort. [Edited 7/12/07 11:55am] "New Power slide...." |
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If he ever needed to halt an album going to the presses, unlike the BLACK ALBUM this disc should be stopped right now and reworked with a focused and thought out playlist, perhaps concept.
From just the snippets/songs I've heard, half the album doesn't fit, and some of the Wendy/Lisa input songs I'm cringing. THE ONE U WANNA C, PLANET EARTH, SOMEWHERE HERE ON EARTH, okay, sounds somewhat interesting. CHELSEA RODGERS, FUTURE BABY MAMA, okay, decent, but why such a sharp contrast in relation to the other stuff? Also musically we've heard it all before by others, for example, LION OF JUDAH, only thing different is Prince's voice over it. It's not a cohesive playlist, lacks focus and that's what producers are for. I'm not saying Prince needs one, but people need to understand the work and STRONG LONG TERM FOCUS that goes into making an album. One can get so caught up in the songs and inspirations, multiple avenues start popping up and you get derailed from the main goal. Take into account he's working with other assertive and talented musicians W&L, the live gigs, who knows what other plans, seems like he got derailed. It can be mentally exhausting. It's happened before. It sounds like this is a transition album, similar to CONTROVERSY, GRAFFITI BRIDGE. However, what's disappointing is the lack of originality. This has nothing to do with re-living the 80's. I reject the premise. He had 90's stuff that was original and focused and after, THE RAINBOW CHILDREN. NEWS. Never mind I didn't like some of it, I'm talking about objective originality. Give him a metal spoon, duck tape, and a hairdryer (what?) for creative tools I'm sure it'd be original. That's the difference from reworking the same pop r/b hits and using piss poor lyrics for the 3rd album, that's the key, because: MUSICOLOGY, didn't care for the album overall, but knew it was an album he had to make from where he'd been. Mainstream, somewhat-serious sounding. Also the concept (not a concept like DIRTY MIND, LOVESEXY, but a focused playlist with continuity and an album theme) was there, the promotion of real musicians who played instruments, not a digital music workout platform. The first album where no new sounds were exhibited in Prince's catalog but the form, structure of the songs WAS different because Prince was playing them, not another artist. The mainstream press in it's copycat and networked way decided it was time for a Prince comeback. Nothing to do with the music quality. Hey, we'll take it. But where the hell was the press for all the other gems??? 3121, again, great theme/concept, the ultimate spiritual paradise party, with Prince as the host, very focused, some original songs, very diverse, some production copying of current trends and some pop fluffiness, got more young people hooked, and that was the purpose. Should have gotten the airplay, Prince is rightly pissed off in public playing acoustic gtr "DON'T PLAY ME" at some no-name ballroom awards function, he did everything right. Culminates in SuperBowl. Hard to top that. But now we have another album of pop fluff with GUITAR, some R/B fare, and several hippie folk rock tracks??? Where's the progression? Personally, sorry, my tolerance is finished, it's time to move on. The hippie folk stuff with some less contrasting fare, okay fine, but not the repeats... In addition, what's the theme? I'm curious to know the point of Planet Earth.. The continuation 3121 logo... If their is a website connection with more access considering no tracklisting, lyrics on the album... Perhaps he was under pressure to come out with an album this year. Who knows what other material he didn't include. Perhaps he's rushing into another project. His live game is definitely on, but sadly he won't be playing live for too many more years. I believe his studio efforts are far from over, I also reject the idea of old musicians having exhausted their creative juices, especially for an animal like Prince. No way. So if you like the album, good for you, don't get your panties in a bind with some constructive criticism. I'll be giving these songs further listen, but I won't be throwing money down. | |
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You can't judge an album on soundclips
If anything , the song's sequence is very good rather ! [Edited 7/12/07 12:47pm] | |
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jacobpb -
From just the snippets/songs I've heard,
So you are giving us this long post before you have even heard the whole album? You've made up your mind before you've sat and listened to it? Okay... Also musically we've heard it all before by others, for example, LION OF JUDAH, only thing different is Prince's voice over it. It's not a cohesive playlist, lacks focus and that's what producers are for. I'm not saying Prince needs one, but people need to understand the work and STRONG LONG TERM FOCUS that goes into making an album. One can get so caught up in the songs and inspirations, multiple avenues start popping up and you get derailed from the main goal. Take into account he's working with other assertive and talented musicians W&L, the live gigs, who knows what other plans, seems like he got derailed. It can be mentally exhausting. It's happened before. It sounds like this is a transition album, similar to CONTROVERSY, GRAFFITI BRIDGE. Again...this is all seems like it could be well thought out--but you haven't even heard the entire album. It's like reviewing a movie based on the trailer/preview. How eager are you not to like this album if you give it a thumbs down without hearing the whole thing? However, what's disappointing is the lack of originality. What's disappointing is that you made up your mind before you heard the album. His live game is definitely on, but sadly he won't be playing live for too many more years. WTF are you talking about? James Brown played until he died--why would Prince be different? So if you like the album, good for you, don't get your panties in a bind with some constructive criticism. I'll be giving these songs further listen, but I won't be throwing money down. And why would you throw money down? You've already heard entire snippets of the album. [Edited 7/12/07 12:50pm] "New Power slide...." |
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jacobpb said: If he ever needed to halt an album going to the presses, unlike the BLACK ALBUM this disc should be stopped right now and reworked with a focused and thought out playlist, perhaps concept.
But now we have another album of pop fluff with GUITAR, some R/B fare, and several hippie folk rock tracks??? Where's the progression? Personally, sorry, my tolerance is finished, it's time to move on. The hippie folk stuff with some less contrasting fare, okay fine, but not the repeats... In addition, what's the theme? I'm curious to know the point of Planet Earth.. The continuation 3121 logo... If their is a website connection with more access considering no tracklisting, lyrics on the album... Perhaps he was under pressure to come out with an album this year. Who knows what other material he didn't include. Perhaps he's rushing into another project. Totally agree with all of what you've written, especially these quotes above. This so called theme couldn't make less sense. I remember when I first heard the new album was going to be called "Revolution." That alone got me excited for this album. When I heard "Planet Earth" was really the title I knew this project was in trouble. I agree Musicology probably needed to happen even though I can't stand it's bland songs. The general public needed Prince lite. 3121 was much better, but still seemed to be a Prince-by-the-numbers affair. The growth did have me thinking we were in for another great album. Instead we get something that disappoints more than Musicology did for me. I'll go back to what I've been posting here since hearing Planet Earth. One question, why? There is no point putting this mess out to the public as it is. I won't be spending money on this one. I would've rather seen a larger scale tour for 3121 than this album! And for the live question. I was at the Target Center last weekend. Prince isn't that great live anymore (sorry to say). His band is piss poor and his stage prescence seems non-genuine. Seems like a routine, or worse yet, a Vegas act. Bad times in Prince land IMHO. I wanted to beleive this year would be so much more following the absolute genius return during the Superbowl. Damn shame. |
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No I've heard whole songs, and snippets, I'm giving some of the songs a chance as stated, but the lack of song choice cohesion is obvious. | |
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I agree with Skywalker...wait 'till U hear the dang album first. And if your views are still the same afterwards...more power to ya! | |
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It's sad you attack the messanger and not the message. Trying arguing the argument. Laughable. | |
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jacobpb said: It's sad you attack the messanger and not the message. Trying arguing the argument. Laughable.
Nope...not true! Based on the snippets I've heard, I think a lot of the songs SUCK. But until I hear the entire album, I cannot form an honest non-biased opinion. | |
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skywalker said: the 80s it may just be because it simply was.
What a wonderfully useless way to prove a point. "It is because it is..." is a crappy argument which requires the least amount of effort. [Edited 7/12/07 11:55am] You've ignored the context. I was responding to your extremely devious claim that people "wanted Prince to recapture their youth for them". You admitted yourself that was an unfair comment. My point was that instead of inventing reasons to dismiss people's views you should at least consider the possibility that they might just be responding to the music and not some latent desire to be back in high school drinking kool aid. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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skywalker said: jacobpb -
From just the snippets/songs I've heard,
So you are giving us this long post before you have even heard the whole album? You've made up your mind before you've sat and listened to it? Okay... WTF are you talking about? James Brown played until he died--why would Prince be different? So if you like the album, good for you, don't get your panties in a bind with some constructive criticism. I'll be giving these songs further listen, but I won't be throwing money down. And why would you throw money down? You've already heard entire snippets of the album. [Edited 7/12/07 12:50pm] Yes, heard songs and snippets, and yes standing by everything I've said. I'm sure I'm missing some great changes in Mr.Goodnight, right? I'm giving a few of the songs a further listen but again, question of album cohesion, pop fluff, nonmetaphoric/lazy lyrics for moi. Prince performing -- I'm talking about touring. Probability-wise, as stated a few more years, 5-10, it's called old age, who knows how that affects a person, each one is different. | |
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You've ignored the context. I was responding to your extremely devious claim that people "wanted Prince to recapture their youth for them". You admitted yourself that was an unfair comment. My point was that instead of inventing reasons to dismiss people's views you should at least consider the possibility that they might just be responding to the music and not some latent desire to be back in high school drinking kool aid. Okay, you first. Why do you think Prince's 80's output is so revered now, but when much of that music was released it received mixed reviews from both critics and fans? Look at many of the, then current,reviews of his albums post Purple Rain and you will not see a general consensus that they were unequivocable masterpieces.Furthermore, a huge drop in sales in the mid-late 80's would suggest that fans weren't always on the purple boat either. Sure, NOWADAYS you have people proclaiming that they knew that Parade was a masterpiece from day one, however, that is viewing the past with rose tinted glasses. Lovesexy was routinely panned and considered a bomb. Now we call it a "classic". Bottom line: My "invented reason" just as legit as your dubious claim that "the 80's were better because they just were"... People often forget to take themselves into account for appreciating art. If they don't like Prince's new album--Prince is to blame--not them. I think that the listener brings a lot more to the equation than they think... [ [Edited 7/12/07 13:51pm] "New Power slide...." |
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Yes, heard songs and snippets, and yes standing by everything I've said. I'm sure I'm missing some great changes in Mr.Goodnight, right? I'm giving a few of the songs a further listen but again, question of album cohesion, pop fluff, nonmetaphoric/lazy lyrics for moi. Well, call it what you want, but at best you are being cynical-at worst lazily negative. Like I said, you've already made up your mind and haven't heard the album. If that's what works for you--fine by me. NEWSFLASH: Prince has always made some pop fluff and had his share of lazy lyrics... Prince performing -- I'm talking about touring. Probability-wise, as stated a few more years, 5-10, it's called old age, who knows how that affects a person, each one is different. Exactly right---each one is different and no one knows how age affects a person. However, it seems you can almost predict the future. Right? "New Power slide...." |
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I think there is a lot of confusion around the idea that some people want Prince to return the the 80s. I think in most cases, they are not talking about the commercialism or even the sound itself, but the very fact that he used to stretch himself so much. That is what grew his fan base in the first place. Originality. The return to the 80s is in fact a return to pushing musical boundries. You are right, when "classic" albums came out, views were split. But no one ever called them bland. It was more, "wierd" or "all over the place". With the new material, the songwriting is just as strong, but musically, he seems content to be stuck in a rut. A claim that could be made since 1989--at least. So who are these people that are suffering through entire decades waiting?... "New Power slide...." |
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skywalker said: Yes, heard songs and snippets, and yes standing by everything I've said. I'm sure I'm missing some great changes in Mr.Goodnight, right? I'm giving a few of the songs a further listen but again, question of album cohesion, pop fluff, nonmetaphoric/lazy lyrics for moi. Well, call it what you want, but at best you are being cynical-at worst lazily negative. Like I said, you've already made up your mind and haven't heard the album. If that's what works for you--fine by me. NEWSFLASH: Prince has always made some pop fluff and had his share of lazy lyrics... Prince performing -- I'm talking about touring. Probability-wise, as stated a few more years, 5-10, it's called old age, who knows how that affects a person, each one is different. Exactly right---each one is different and no one knows how age affects a person. However, it seems you can almost predict the future. Right? It's too bad you frame your entire argument on my amount of listening to the album? Then you say I haven't heard the album..haha. You're not reading. Lazily negative? Negative to soft types I guess. I call it constructive criticism. [Keep it civil snip - luv4u] I stand by everything I've said, you want to frame this about me like so many others on here when you read something you can't digest, like the huge argument how many years Prince will perform??? [Keep it civil snip - luv4u] | |
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jacobpb said: skywalker said: Exactly right---each one is different and no one knows how age affects a person. However, it seems you can almost predict the future. Right? It's too bad you frame your entire argument on my amount of listening to the album? Then you say I haven't heard the album..haha. You're not reading. Lazily negative? Negative to soft types I guess. I call it constructive criticism. [Keep it civil snip - luv4u] I stand by everything I've said, you want to frame this about me like so many others on here when you read something you can't digest, like the huge argument how many years Prince will perform??? [Keep it civil snip - luv4u] Wow. Did I hurt your feelings? I honestly didn't mean to. You got really personal really quickly. I apologize if you felt like I was attacking you. I am not going to argue with you on the strategies/ethics of arguing in a fan forum. 1. I stand by my claim that it is lazy to give us an album review without hearing the album. Furthermore, it is cynical to give us a negative review and suggest a career overhall based on hearing samples of an album. If you don't like what you are hearing so far: Why not just say that? Why the huge post on what Prince should/shouldn't do based on hearing snippets of songs? 2. You made the claim that Prince probably doesn't have many years of performing without any basis. Plenty of musicians have performed until they were much older than Prince and/or dead. I think your claim is faulty-that's all. Again, I am sorry if I offended you. Perhaps, I shouldn't of made the crack about predicting the future? I am not sure when I made other personal insults... "New Power slide...." |
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