For once it would be nice to join one of these threads where theres some healthy objectivity about Prince's musicianship without the usual BS that always seems to creep in. The "Can Prince play jazz?" thread is IMHO one of the best in recent history. The majority of the responses are thoughtful and articulate. Check that thread out for a saner & more balanced discussion.

Giovanni777 said:

Give Prince about 15 or 20 minutes with that clip, and I guarantee U he could do something in that vein easily, and just as impressively, if not moreso


Right.....Ahh.....nevermind.....


Have a swell evening folks.


-K-
[Edited 7/11/07 6:15am]

jplux1 said:

I agree ...very good point!!! If Prince did what theses other Cats do, just be A guitarist instead of jack of all musical trades ,then I am sure you would be blown away ...just imagine him doing guitars only in his dacades old career...playing only one particular style like the others out there ...think about it ...he IS the best ,he does all styles and then some ...the others are just repeating themselves with theire one style (that they do VERY well).
its like comparing a buffet to a good plate.

.
[Edited 7/10/07 20:10pm]

Listen to Marc Ford and you will have your answer.

3232 said:

You guys are totally missing the point of the initial question of the person who started this thread. The guy asked why when people, critics or music experts talk about "guitar gods" so to speak, they don't always want to include Prince. No one said that Prince sucked as a player. Some of you came up with some insightful answers that made for good conversation. Others jumped on the "let's defend Prince as the greatest of all time" tip when it isn't necessary! Prince is a badass!!! Always has been, always will be. I get it, which is why I love the guy as an artist. I came on this thread to get another perspective, so thank you to all of you who gave examples of other artist and your opinions on them. I love checking out other players I don't know much about. Those of you that could only add comments about how great Prince...Yawn
:zzz:Tell me something I don't already know!
[Edited 7/10/07 22:23pm]

VonMarie said:

What really bothered me with this thread is that people automatically assume that Prince can do anything, but chooses not to... whereas they don't give the same benefit of the doubt for other players. I mean anyone can say that about any artist... "Prince can play like Eddie Van Halen, but he just chooses not to..." It is a ridiculous logic to use. Why can't I say, "Eddie Van Halen can play all the instruments, but he just chooses not to..." ? It is ridiculous to talk about what someone might be able to do.

coolcat said:

I have got to agree with you guys on all of that. "Prince" can/could do this and can/could do this does get old. I mean it ain't about what is left to be desired, but exactly what desires have been fulfilled that matters in this contest and in this contest and in that sense, there are tons of better guitar players, because they focus on the instrument as a whole, on it's lonesome, while sometimes "Prince" can be choosey. So, there you go. I think, technique-wise lots and lots of people out there are superior to "Prince". Sometimes even those players' passion can rival with "Prince". I've seen "Steve Vai" on YouTube, playing "Tender Surrender". Now, that was some scary passion for you. But, I favor "Prince" for a lot more than just his guitar-playing. I also like his piano-playing and he's not even the greates at that. No, I wouldn't say that he is a modern-day "Mozart", but, he's got just enough consumed within the mind about sound that it should last him for the rest of his life to keep at both instruments and never let them be.

VonMarie said:

dude, thank you!! lol ehh it's what I get for posting a question like this on the org, only like 1/5 of the replies actually hav something to do with the original post

Christaro said:

plus Pete Townsend, Dwayne Allman.

ummm, on the other hand, I listen to Prince more than all those combined.
WHAT'S IT ALL MEAN?????
[Edited 7/11/07 21:17pm]

I am sick reading this post...I love music and all kinds of music and have heard it all. WHAAAAAT????? PRINCE IS ONE OF THE BEST guitar PLAYERS EVER! You all are DEAF!

sharonzeke said:

ZZZZZzzzzz

Prince has big ears and a ton of talent to translate, seemingly by instinct, what inspires him into beautiful sound. He used to be the greatest guitarist to me.

Personally, I think he was a better soloist (with a much better overdrive sound) between Purple Rain and Lovesexy eras. Since then, the tone has degraded. I believe he's switched processing/rack equipment, possibly pickups, too.

All that to say -- sometimes how one sounds (the tone a musician produces and hears) shapes the way they play, or reflects their musical center of gravity.

Between the aforementioned time period and today, Prince made a bit of a leap to more blues-based styles and scales. He literally seems like another guitar player to me; stylistically, he's not as "pretty."

My votes, to this day, go to Phil Keaggy and Jeff Beck. those brothas are monsters.

VonMarie said:

Prince is exceptinally good at what He does! And u can't argue with that!
Whether he is the best guitarist comes down 2 personnal choice in the end! in my opinion, one of his best lead breaks is Strollin on Live @ the Aladin DVD. He always seems better live than with any of his studio stuff. Maybe he over thinks it and over produces it and ends up strangling the life and beauty out of it. At the end of the day he can do it all on a whim. And coz we know he can do it "we" , his fans, love him 4 it!
There's been a lot of talk on this thread about Clapton, Hendrix ect.
U R all forgetting the 1 guy who never puts a foot wrong and listening 2 him play is transcending. David Gilnour. I challenge any of U 2 pick a bad lead break of his!

Amaxx said:

Not calling this "bad". It's just a "different" take on a familiar solo:

http://www.youtube.com/wa...WifkjyXl4k

skywalker said:

Nice post. Probably the best post on this thread. On point except we totally differ regarding Hendrix. Hendrix and Carlos are definately P's two main influences. I feel P is a better guitarist than Carlos. He cops Santana to death and always has. But in the process, he has, over time, surpassed Santana. Hendrix died in 1970. In the 37 years Hendrix has been dead, P STILL hasn't surpassed Jimi. Nor will he ever. Also, P was promoted as a rock guitarist during the Purple Rain explosion of 84 and 85. He presented himself as the "new Hendrix of the 80's". Sure, he still did his James Brown dances and his Sly Stone leadership, and his Little Richard showmanship. BUT the imagery of P, more than anything during that period, was P as a guitarist.What hurt him was the comparisons to Hendrix, which he brought on himself BIGTIME. P though, wasn't truly concerned with the o.g.'s who knew about Jimi. P was going after the kids who didn't know who Hendrix was. And Sly and James either, for that matter.

blackguitaristz said:

versitility= greatness and prince is as versitile as they come. i'll bet most of the guitarist mentioned above him kill him in aspects or genres but none of them dared be as versitile. if jimi were alive he'd be mind blowin jimi, at the time of his death he was broadening his base so he has to be #1. everyone else that followed were specialist until prince.

FarrahMoan said:[quote]

coolcat said:

[quote] I've seen "Steve Vai" on YouTube, playing "Tender Surrender". Now, that was some scary passion [quote]

You got it: check out the Master: http://www.youtube.com/wa...1VjwciFLAg

dreamshaman32 said:

I'd encourage you to look at Phil Keaggy. He doesn't do funk rhythm much. But Prince doesn't do solo fingerstyle...

I think what stops Prince from being considered the BEST guitarist ever is...

He just doesnt play enough solos on Be TV Events! Ok sure in the last few years he has with

The Rock Hall
The SNL -Fury
The Super Bowl

But since he has done that you see allot more people talking about him. If Prince everytime he went on a Tv Event played his guitar. He would create that buzz, because many cant play.

Also another reason might be is he put all those stupid fuckin HORNS everywhere Not many want Hardcore Guitar with fruity jazz horns. I would just wish he would do a full on Rock Album, Metal Album, Classic Rock Album.

Enough with this rippin off the "Old Friends 4 Sale" genre! Time to move on and change!!!

Christaro said:

In a 1985 Rolling Stone interview, Eric Clapton took great pains to mention Prince and how Prince was taking music in a place it hadn't been before.

VonMarie said:

You're right. Let me try to address the point from my perspective.

I've been a Prince fan since "Soft and Wet". And believe it or not, when I think of Prince performing music, my first image is of him on keys. Maybe because that's the way he broke into the scene.

Maybe a lot of critics think of Prince and keyboards first, too. Maybe that first impression is the one that stays with you no matter what else happens.

Etorres said:

None of the fuckers you talk about could play with such versatility so many instruments so well.

Prince is one of the very top multi-instrumentalists in the world.

Prince is all the genres of music at the same time. That's what makes Prince. So why would we think in terms of subcategories of music.

Moreover too many of you think good guitarist = rock guitarits.

You must be joking. Jazz players kick most of these rockers' butt. Think about brazilian music as well. Jeff Beck can fuck off if you compare him to most of the best Brazilian legendary guitarists.

[Edited 7/12/07 7:51am]

Probably because he's not just a guitarist. He's a musician period. That's why people try not to label him.

sarkozyiszeman said:

Man, get a grip! This thread ask why isn't Prince the greatest guitarist. It's not intended to address his abilities as a multi-instrumentalist.

LoDog said:

That's a crock of Prince rationalization bullshit. So, merely being a "guitarist" means one isn't a musician?

Spoken like a true non-musician/Prince apologist.

Christaro said:[quote]FarrahMoan said:[quote]

coolcat said:

[quote] I've seen "Steve Vai" on YouTube, playing "Tender Surrender". Now, that was some

scary passion

I absolutely love Steve Vai, but that video was not a live performance. He's syncing with the studio recording. Still awesome though.

I think most objective posters up here know that there really is no "greatest guitarist". There are great guitar players - some have great technical ability, some have the ability to evoke great emotion in their playing. Some possess both. Usually the players who are considered more "emotional" players - y'know, the kind commonly praised as being able to "say more with one note than 1000" aren't considered at the top technically, but they tend to move people from a purely emotional level. I tend to think of Prince more in that category.

As KStrat (an awesome guitar player himself) stated in an earlier post, once I started playing guitar and discovered other players besides Prince, I realized that there are many players that are far superior to Prince when it comes to actual technique. From an emotional standpoint, though, Prince's playing has a more powerful effect on me. I've been a Prince acolyte for over twenty years, learning his guitar stuff inside and out. I see him as a great funk/rock musician with an adventurous set of ears.

The main reason Prince has only recently been seen as much more than a curiosity piece by many is because of Prince himself. When he had the opportunity in the '94 Guitar World piece to really talk guitar, he filled it up with "Princeisms" that had more to do with maintaining his inaccessible image than offering anything enlightening as a player. All that "interview" did was make him seem more like an oddity. Even with his most recent Guitar Player interview, the only nugget he had to offer was to suggest players check out Ike Turner. The most informative things one could take from any of those pieces was his love of boss pedals.

Add to that the fact that a lot of Prince's live performances, guitar-wise, totally override the recorded versions and you have an artist who's a great guitar player but doesn't always put the great guitar playing as a dominant part on his records. Oftentimes, it's there, but buried in the mix. Again, that's Prince's doing. Don't know if that'll ever change - of course, releasing a song called "Guitar" (the first version) that doesn't have that much guitar in it, doesn't help, either.

I think the most important thing, and what really matters in the long run, is the fact that Prince's fellow musicians - the Steve Vais, Eric Claptons, Nile Rodgers and Carlos Santanas of the world, know how good of a musician he is. Even if a lot of the masses haven't gotten around to giving Prince his props as a guitar player (the live performances of the past few years have gone a long way towards changing their minds), his actual contemporaries have and do.

I don't play guitar, so my question here is made while having to sit back and read others' responses...

This conversation is obviously largely subjective. Yet even still, there's gotta be some standard to gauge a player's proficiency.

That said, when you guys say that Prince either is or isn't one of the greatest guitar players out there, on what ground do you say that? Expression I understand. But where technique is mentioned, what specific skills are you guys considering?

Giovanni briefly hit on bending, note selection and sense of rhythm. What are some others? I guess my overarching question is what exactly makes a "great guitarist?"