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Printablethey're just setting themselves up. he's gonna somehow pull threw and his album will be sucessful enough for those shops to regret it. oy vey. | |
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I also feel partly bad for him, he gave all this praise to london and picked the UK for a reasonably lengthy tour, and the press there hasn't been too kind. | |
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Wall said: Genesia said: The Musicology giveaway was desperate? What planet are you living on? Record sales aside, Prince had the #1 grossing tour in 2004, was inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and put himself firmly back into the public eye for the first time since the last century. If that's what desperation gets you, look for me on top of the Empire State Building -- ready to jump.  Exactly -- record sales aside. Like I said, he was all over the place, that was his public rebirth and he still had to give away copies of new cd to get people to listen, or at least touch, it -- desperate. And in regards to your question, I'm on planet earth. My point is that, IMO, he doesn't care about record sales. (Which is why I said, "record sales aside.") He makes more money from live performances -- and gets more mileage from the buzz generated by that. Putting the music into peoples' hands by any means necessary -- even for free -- is what gets them to the concert venue. That's how he gets paid. That's what people talk about. That's what sets him up for whatever he decides to do in the future. We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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oldpurple said: hay so if they are not going to sell PE then we all should pop into the local wrecka stow and ask for it, just to show them what they are missing out on !!!!!
LOL I know. Everyone go into their local stow on the same day & ask for P's new cd. They'd be pissed at all the requests with no product. | |
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Genesia said: Wall said: Exactly -- record sales aside. Like I said, he was all over the place, that was his public rebirth and he still had to give away copies of new cd to get people to listen, or at least touch, it -- desperate. And in regards to your question, I'm on planet earth. My point is that, IMO, he doesn't care about record sales. (Which is why I said, "record sales aside.") He makes more money from live performances -- and gets more mileage from the buzz generated by that. Putting the music into peoples' hands by any means necessary -- even for free -- is what gets them to the concert venue. That's how he gets paid. That's what people talk about. That's what sets him up for whatever he decides to do in the future. And he has tried to do the covermount in the past with the Undertaker and Guitar Player I think it was, so this isn't a new idea for him, it's just on a bigger scale. |
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Genesia said: Wall said: Exactly -- record sales aside. Like I said, he was all over the place, that was his public rebirth and he still had to give away copies of new cd to get people to listen, or at least touch, it -- desperate. And in regards to your question, I'm on planet earth. My point is that, IMO, he doesn't care about record sales. (Which is why I said, "record sales aside.") He makes more money from live performances -- and gets more mileage from the buzz generated by that. Putting the music into peoples' hands by any means necessary -- even for free -- is what gets them to the concert venue. That's how he gets paid. That's what people talk about. That's what sets him up for whatever he decides to do in the future. If you have to give away your cd to get them to come to your show, that's also a desperate move. A success would be selling tickets and cds. And if you think Prince doesn't care about record sales, you're completely nutters. He babbled about getting paid and being number one at the bank for years. The reason he gave away Musicology was to get a higher chart ranking. No hard feelings. | |
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emilio319 said: bonedaddy said: FANS don't have ALL the tickets that have been sold, and no, they are not ALL sold yet. Like I already said somewhere, If he was already giving up to 400,000 cds away, he probably come to the conclusion that he wouldn't actually sell many more in the shops, given the current climate. It will do him better in the 'long-run' to get his music to people who would never have even considered buying a Prince record, just for them to realise he still makes music, and good music too, then possibly he will build his market up and sales may increase elsewhere.
This makes sense to me. If I'm not mistaken, the BIG MONEY is in CONCERTS, NOT CD SALES. If he does this Prince would be getting great music into more hands. More people would be motivated to come see his 21 shows in London and buy more music from him in the future. Plus, let's not forget his religion. Couldn't this also be seen as a way for him to get his religious message to more people? If this turns out to be true, then once again Prince has proven himself to STILL be someone who is a total revolutionary, both with his music and with his business practices. He threw the industry a curveball when he was giving away his cd's on the Musicology tour and it looks like he is doing it again. How many artists have the music, the talent, the legacy, the smarts, and the courage and conviction to do things like this? And anyone who thinks this is a desparate move is ridiculous. This is the complete opposite of desperate. This is a bold move by someone who is in complete control. He's letting the record companies know he doesn't need them, they need him. I heard that great read  |
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pandemoniun6 said: Genesia said: My point is that, IMO, he doesn't care about record sales. (Which is why I said, "record sales aside.") He makes more money from live performances -- and gets more mileage from the buzz generated by that. Putting the music into peoples' hands by any means necessary -- even for free -- is what gets them to the concert venue. That's how he gets paid. That's what people talk about. That's what sets him up for whatever he decides to do in the future. And he has tried to do the covermount in the past with the Undertaker and Guitar Player I think it was, so this isn't a new idea for him, it's just on a bigger scale. He doesn't have Warn-a-Brutha tellin' him he can't do it this time, either! We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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I don't see what's so desperate about it. I'm sure the cost of the cd is probably included in the ticket price so he's getting his money regardless. A cd with the case and inside jacket costs a label appox. $0.80 ea. sometimes less. Independent lables manufacture at about $2 bucks. If Prince has a deal for someone to manufacture for him & he includes the price in his concert tickets, which can range from $30 to $3000 apparently, I'd say he's not desperate but smart. Plus, I'd much rather get the cd while I'm at the concert so I can play it in the car than to go to the store & get charged $18 for it from some company that hates him anyway.  | |
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Musicology actually sold in the area of 900,000 - 1 million copies in the US not including the giveaways, 1.1 million copies were given away, and it remains his highest seller since the  album (excluding hits compilations) despite the giveaways, the giveaways actually increased sales. 3121 entering #1 was no coincidence he obviously gained new fans during the Musicology era, cause us hardcore fanbase couldn't make Newpower Soul, Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic, or The Rainbow Children #1 or even the top 100 for the latter.
Wall said: Thanks for the apologetic Prince education earlier poster.
But I stand by my earlier point -- if he was ever going to sell cd's in the UK, this is his time -- and please don't tell me Prince doesn't care about money. Remember his number one at the bank loop comment a few years back? And the Musicology give away was equally desperate. The album sold 500,000 copies which for all the press he was getting at the time was pretty sad. And 3121 entered at #1 because of his hardcore fan base. Remember where it went after week one? Straight down the toilet. [Edited 6/28/07 10:17am] | |
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Wall said: Genesia said: My point is that, IMO, he doesn't care about record sales. (Which is why I said, "record sales aside.") He makes more money from live performances -- and gets more mileage from the buzz generated by that. Putting the music into peoples' hands by any means necessary -- even for free -- is what gets them to the concert venue. That's how he gets paid. That's what people talk about. That's what sets him up for whatever he decides to do in the future. If you have to give away your cd to get them to come to your show, that's also a desperate move. A success would be selling tickets and cds. And if you think Prince doesn't care about record sales, you're completely nutters. He babbled about getting paid and being number one at the bank for years. The reason he gave away Musicology was to get a higher chart ranking. I guess one man's innovation is another man's desperation. We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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Genesia said: And he has tried to do the covermount in the past with the Undertaker and Guitar Player I think it was, so this isn't a new idea for him, it's just on a bigger scale.
Spot on. and the label wouldn't let him do it.. even though it wasn't going to be a commercial release. The UK is one territory. It's only in the UK it won't be for sale.. Columbia are still distributing for the rest of the world so he's still going to sell this album. There is so little money for an artist in record sales that he really won't care about one territory.. where his last album sold 78k - not too shabby but hardly a milestone. He's practically sold out 21 nights at the O2 - thats what its about. Prince makes more music than we could ever listen to.. and he just wants to get it out there. Of course the man needs to make paper.. but he does that with his live shows. He's giving us his music for free - and is charging us far less than than a lot of other artists of his calibre to see his shows What more could fans possibly ask for? | |
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Wall said: Genesia said: My point is that, IMO, he doesn't care about record sales. (Which is why I said, "record sales aside.") He makes more money from live performances -- and gets more mileage from the buzz generated by that. Putting the music into peoples' hands by any means necessary -- even for free -- is what gets them to the concert venue. That's how he gets paid. That's what people talk about. That's what sets him up for whatever he decides to do in the future. If you have to give away your cd to get them to come to your show, that's also a desperate move. A success would be selling tickets and cds. And if you think Prince doesn't care about record sales, you're completely nutters. He babbled about getting paid and being number one at the bank for years. The reason he gave away Musicology was to get a higher chart ranking. So if we call the give-away on the Musicology tour desperate because of the chart position and not a clever way to trick the system, how is THIS give-away desperate, as it will NOT count towards sales? I STILL don't understand why you call this "desperate". You know, it's just that the word has this negative tone to it. He knows that this way he reaches more people, so he does it, because he can. And actually, I don't care either, I just want to hear it. | |
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Wall said:[quote] Genesia said: My point is that, IMO, he doesn't care about record sales. (Which is why I said, "record sales aside.") He makes more money from live performances -- and gets more mileage from the buzz generated by that. Putting the music into peoples' hands by any means necessary -- even for free -- is what gets them to the concert venue. That's how he gets paid. That's what people talk about. That's what sets him up for whatever he decides to do in the future. If you have to give away your cd to get them to come to your show, that's also a desperate move. A success would be selling tickets and cds. [quote] What are you talking about? People went to see Prince perform. They didn't pay $75 just to get a free cd. The free cd was a bonus. | |
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calldapplwondery83 said: So if we call the give-away on the Musicology tour desperate because of the chart position and not a clever way to trick the system, how is THIS give-away desperate, as it will NOT count towards sales?
I STILL don't understand why you call this "desperate". You know, it's just that the word has this negative tone to it. He knows that this way he reaches more people, so he does it, because he can. And actually, I don't care either, I just want to hear it. All right, it's all brilliant. And Purple Charm, I'm aware people are going to see Prince perform and not because of getting a new cd -- and that's because he's become an oldie's act and people want to hear him play the hits. No hard feelings. | |
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drcoldchoke said: Record shops supporting Prince?!
Greedy fuckers, they supporting themselves. May they burn. 
stupid cunts, the lot of m and true love lives on lollipops and crisps | |
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Wall said: If you have to give away your cd to get them to come to your show, that's also a desperate move. A success would be selling tickets and cds.
yeah, that's exactly why me, and probably about 100.000 other continentals got tickets to the london shows, to get the free cd, lol. never mind the cost of the trainjourney there and the 2 nights in a hotel plus food and other expenses. we get the new cd for free 
 and true love lives on lollipops and crisps | |
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Wall said: calldapplwondery83 said: So if we call the give-away on the Musicology tour desperate because of the chart position and not a clever way to trick the system, how is THIS give-away desperate, as it will NOT count towards sales?
I STILL don't understand why you call this "desperate". You know, it's just that the word has this negative tone to it. He knows that this way he reaches more people, so he does it, because he can. And actually, I don't care either, I just want to hear it. All right, it's all brilliant. And Purple Charm, I'm aware people are going to see Prince perform and not because of getting a new cd -- and that's because he's become an oldie's act and people want to hear him play the hits.  Why the sarcasm? | |
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I'm not sure why people are so suprised by a move like this. Prince is widely considered in the industry as an innovator (not only with regards to his music, but with regards to his business practices as well). Giving this new CD away for "free" (well, with the price of the paper istself, so there is a cost) is a decision which seems to have been made for a multitude of strategic reasons, and will most likely benefit P in the long run. Besides, isn't this what he's always preached? I seem to remember the phrase..."Free the Music". This, IMHO, is just one way of doing so.
Just my 2 cents. | |
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Here's how the Mail on Sunday explains its giveaways - it claims that they actually stimulate sales and interest for the artist (oh, and it also suggests Prince will be paid a fair amount for this too):
"The Mail on Sunday today responded to musician Mike Oldfield's attack on its giveaway promotion of his album Tubular Bells by pointing out sales of the album rose 30% afterwards. The Associated Newspapers title took out a double-page ad in trade magazine Music Week claiming that its covermount CDs of artists such as Simply Red, Madness and Dolly Parton stimulated interest in music. Sales of full-price copies of Tubular Bells increased 30% after the Sunday paper distributed the album recently, the MoS said. But music industry sources said they believed that Tubular Bells was a low-selling title and that a 30% hike was not that significant. The Music Week ad claimed that Dolly Parton's new album, the Very Best of Dolly Parton, entered the charts at number nine after the paper "gave away" her Live & Studio album; and that the band Madness experienced a 3,000% increase in hits on its website after the paper distributed their Edge of the Universe double album. The paper was responding after Oldfield recently attacked music company EMI for agreeing to give away his album Tubular Bells in the MoS. Industry sources estimate that the paper paid between £200,000 and £500,000 for the rights to Tubular Bells. Oldfield - who announced before the MoS deal that he was moving his back catalogue to Universal - received undisclosed royalties from the deal. The MoS managing director, Stephen Miron, defended the paper's giveaways, saying that they promoted music. "We spend more money marketing music acts than any other music company does. A lot of people recognise that we are a different distribution channel," Mr Miron added. "I have never understood why retailers have never come to me and said 'Is there a way we can work with you?'," Mr Miron told Music Week. "We can draw people in to a retailer on Sunday to go and buy music." Mr Miron said that the MoS would continue its covermounts. "This isn't going to stop," he added. "Their [record companies'] worst fear is that we stop doing it. When we stop doing it, it will have a far worse effect on album sales. "We are promoting music. Record companies are desperate to work with us again. They are nervous, but they don't want to bite the hand that feeds them." (from Media Guardian) ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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it's nothing really new for prince anyway, if wb hadn't stopped him
at the very last minute, he would have already given away an album, distributing it for free with guitar magazine (94's The Undertaker) and true love lives on lollipops and crisps | |
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Wall said: *snip* Like I said, he was all over the place, that was his public rebirth and he still had to give away copies of new cd to get people to listen, or at least touch, it -- desperate.
If you're going to be contrarian at least get your figures straight. "Musicology" sold ONE MILLION copies (the figures were reported here every week). A PLATINUM album (retail sales only) for an artist of Prince's age, and in this sales climate is DAMN GOOD! Many artists who are presumed to be more popular than Prince have struggled (or failed) to go plat the last couple of years. | |
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IstenSzek said: it's nothing really new for prince anyway, if wb hadn't stopped him
at the very last minute, he would have already given away an album, distributing it for free with guitar magazine (94's The Undertaker) Except that now they have/had a release date for an actual major release of it. Back then, I don't think there were any other plans for it. Which makes the decision by Warner even more stupid and Prince's anger more understandable. | |
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calldapplwondery83 said: IstenSzek said: it's nothing really new for prince anyway, if wb hadn't stopped him
at the very last minute, he would have already given away an album, distributing it for free with guitar magazine (94's The Undertaker) Except that now they have/had a release date for an actual major release of it. Back then, I don't think there were any other plans for it. Which makes the decision by Warner even more stupid and Prince's anger more understandable. well yeah, that's true. i think the only thing i find slighty weird in this is that it's planet earth and he's already signed a contract and then he'll decide to just give it away in the UK typical prince 
it would be way more cool if he gave away a kind of 'goodbye & thank you', ep or album AFTER his run in london. just some unknown ditties or a couple tracks from the vault additions. and true love lives on lollipops and crisps | |
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livewire said: Wall said: *snip* Like I said, he was all over the place, that was his public rebirth and he still had to give away copies of new cd to get people to listen, or at least touch, it -- desperate.
If you're going to be contrarian at least get your figures straight. "Musicology" sold ONE MILLION copies (the figures were reported here every week). A PLATINUM album (retail sales only) for an artist of Prince's age, and in this sales climate is DAMN GOOD! Many artists who are presumed to be more popular than Prince have struggled (or failed) to go plat the last couple of years. Thank You ! | |
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livewire said: Wall said: *snip* Like I said, he was all over the place, that was his public rebirth and he still had to give away copies of new cd to get people to listen, or at least touch, it -- desperate.
If you're going to be contrarian at least get your figures straight. "Musicology" sold ONE MILLION copies (the figures were reported here every week). A PLATINUM album (retail sales only) for an artist of Prince's age, and in this sales climate is DAMN GOOD! Many artists who are presumed to be more popular than Prince have struggled (or failed) to go plat the last couple of years. I took my numbers from what someone stated earlier in the thread. And yes, I agree, for this stage in his career, a million is great for Prince. Doesn't change the fact he had to give them away to get to what, #5 on the charts with Musicology? *Snip!* No hard feelings. | |
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"He went on to warn the music industry not to take record stores for granted.
Record stores can be taken completely for granted. I love record stores, especially independent used/new stores, and I love browsing for hours in those stores. But, they are by no means necessary. I mean you can buy music on itunes or other services, order off of Amazon or countless other retailers, find hard-to-get stuff on ebay, and (illegally, which I'm not condoning) simply download it off of a file sharing service. As far as retail, you can buy CDs (at least in-print albums by established artists) at regular retailers (Best Buy and Borders for example). Who the hell buys the majority of their albums at a chain record store? Tower Records is gone, the old stand buy mall stores (Musicland, anyone) are gone. Virgin Mega store does OK because its huge and has so many titles. But, I think its safe to say that we can take record stores for granted. | |
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coltrane3 said: "He went on to warn the music industry not to take record stores for granted.
Record stores can be taken completely for granted. I love record stores, especially independent used/new stores, and I love browsing for hours in those stores. But, they are by no means necessary. I mean you can buy music on itunes or other services, order off of Amazon or countless other retailers, find hard-to-get stuff on ebay, and (illegally, which I'm not condoning) simply download it off of a file sharing service. As far as retail, you can buy CDs (at least in-print albums by established artists) at regular retailers (Best Buy and Borders for example). Who the hell buys the majority of their albums at a chain record store? Tower Records is gone, the old stand buy mall stores (Musicland, anyone) are gone. Virgin Mega store does OK because its huge and has so many titles. But, I think its safe to say that we can take record stores for granted. Especially when my local HMV actually has a rack of DVDs facing you on the way in. Not music. DVDs are followed up with discounted music. 3 for 2s or 5 for £20 or whatever. Record stores themselves are devaluing music with the amount of shelf space they give to disposable crap. When I buy in a record store I try and do it in an independent one first and then online after that. I see no reason to support High Street monopolies or call Prince out for doing things his own way |
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Wall said: livewire said: If you're going to be contrarian at least get your figures straight. "Musicology" sold ONE MILLION copies (the figures were reported here every week). A PLATINUM album (retail sales only) for an artist of Prince's age, and in this sales climate is DAMN GOOD! Many artists who are presumed to be more popular than Prince have struggled (or failed) to go plat the last couple of years. I took my numbers from what someone stated earlier in the thread. And yes, I agree, for this stage in his career, a million is great for Prince. Doesn't change the fact he had to give them away to get to what, #5 on the charts with Musicology? *Snip!* You seem more concerned with chart position and sales than he does. I understand what you are saying , but i disagree in callin gthis move desperate. Legands who have been in the music business 30+ years who have acomplished everything thing he has dont need a #1 charting album to validate themselves . | |
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Wall said: Doesn't change the fact he had to give them away to get to what, #5 on the charts with Musicology?
"Musicology" debuted higher than that (#3) with zero giveaways factored in. | |
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