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theAudience said: GustavoRibas said: - Exactly!!! I am a big fan of Tommy Bolin and love his guitar work on Billy Cobham´s ´Spectrum´ and with Alphonse Mouzon. It´s funny that Prince plays ´Stratus´ on his recent aftershows (ccol!) That album is a fusion classic. Jeff Beck included Stratus in his set during last year's tour. - Exactly! I know it´s a classic. I said ´funny that Prince plays it´ because me and JesseDezz were comparing him to Tommy Bolin (in a good way)... |
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BobGeorge909 said: FuNkeNsteiN said: Prince can't read music. ok...Prince can read music. [Edited 7/5/07 12:03pm] o.k....P CAN'T read music. P knows where shit is as far as scales and keys. But other than that, he never learned how to read music. He obviously has not needed it. On this Jazz thang, P has dabbled with Jazz leanings. Meaning, he has written things that were jazz "influenced". To be honest, a lot of shit that's played on stations like The Wave, which is suppossed to be a jazz station, is in the vein of projects like Madhouse, BUT it isn't as good. Is P a jazz musician? Hell nah. But could P sit down and play some George Benson type shit? Sure he could. Doesn't make him a jazz musician though. Can P sit down and play some Mozart type shit on the piano? Sure he could. Doesn't make him a classical musician. SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
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There seems to be a general sentiment among the musicians on this thread: Prince is a proficient musician who has dabbled in jazz and takes the "jazz approach" to his own style. Now...when asking "can Prince play jazz", it would seem that people who think of Prince's primary instrument as guitar tend to answer accordingly. I have never thought of Prince's primary instrument as guitar and have argued that point on here for years. Prince's primary instrument is keyboards. Every multi-instrumentalist has a main instrument that if pressed to play their best on, would go to it first. Mine is guitar or bass. My repertoire is larger on bass as far as covers go but for the past 15 years or so, guitar has been my primary instrument. One of the things I picked up on years ago is the way in which Prince constructs his songs is his tell as to where his true strengths are. He used to "chase" his guitar parts with keyboard parts fairly frequently in his songs. His piano phrasings have always come off (to me) as more natural-sounding than his guitar work, which often seemed contrived. Prince has always WANTED to be known as a great guitarist but as Michael Bland confirmed when he posted here, his true strength is as a keyboardist. Just what I thought all along. Close analysis of Prince's style when dabbling in jazz always seems to rest on his unusual arrangements (where he accents notes, weird key changes, etc.) and not the intricacy of his chords. As a matter of fact, you can learn a Prince song and go in thinking its far more complex than it actually is after you realize its his placement of notes that make some songs sound more elaborate than they are. Jazz players often don't take shortcuts and embrace the complexities because they see them as challenges. Of course, Prince is not a jazz player per se, but he can play a little jazz when the situation calls for it.
Another thing that has been missed is that Prince changes his MUSICIANS according to what he's trying to do at the time. Its been argued many times on here as to whether Prince writes everything himself and has musicians stand by like drones and play what he tells them to but Michael B. also confirmed that its not the case. Sometimes he has a song finished, sometimes he writes around what other players have done, etc. Mike said he never knows what's getting used because they record so much material and it gets used when Prince needs it so its not hard to figure out that when Prince needs something with a jazzy feel, he may get Mr. Neto to drop a few chords to work around but when he needs something funky, he's probably going to go to Morris Hayes. I believe that has ALWAYS been the case when Prince records as his styles have changed according to who's in his band. Incidentally, most people determine Prince's abilities as to what he can do according to his music, thus the "Prince is master of all" mentality on here sometimes but in truth, the music Prince releases is a collaborative effort of different musicians' skills as well as his own. (Let's not forget that quite a few band members have bitched over the years about credit on songs). Prince can play a little jazz but he's not a jazz player (on any instrument). the upside is that Prince takes a jazz mindset to pop music, which is the reason why his music expands further than a lot of other pop artists. Sorry for the long post. [Edited 7/5/07 19:44pm] | |
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You must've forgotten that Miles Davis is one of his musical heroes. And don't forget Rainbow Children is a jazz tune. Peace and be wild! | |
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LoDog said: You must've forgotten that Miles Davis is one of his musical heroes. And don't forget Rainbow Children is a jazz tune.
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Two steps forward, one step back  My author page: https://www.amazon.com/au...eretttruth | |
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NDRU said: It's not black or white.
Yes he can play jazz, meaning he can solo and play chord changes. But can he play and be one of the great jazz musicians, just like he's one of the great pop musicians? And the answer is no. If you just listen to Renato's solos, you can hear the difference of someone who's playing jazz vs. someone who's playing jazzy. Renato's not one of the great jazz keyboard players, but he plays a different language than Prince. Prince plays jazzy & knows some of the extended chords of jazz. Give him a ii V I and he'd be fine. But I imagine he'd get a bit stuck trying to solo over some real changes like Giant Steps. It's similar to saying Paul McCartney is a great classical musician because he wrote Yesterday & For No One. But while they sound classical, Paul knows virtually nothing about arranging & composing in the classical style. This a valid point! Basically, I agree. Only I wouldn't necessarily call Renato a jazz musician either - for me it takes a little bit more to qualify. I'd rather say he's the one playing "jazzy", while Prince is even further away, stylistically. And yes, he would definitely get stuck on "Giant Steps"... Actually, I'm not sure he would handle "simple" II-V-I progressions that easily either, if they were put in front of him, and not something he had come up with himself. | |
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BobGeorge909 said: My grandpa wasn't the most educated man, he grew up poor in the south, didn't graduate high school. He was no great reader. Probably never read anything longer than a magazine article....but by no means was he illeterate....does that make sense?
Sure it does. The ability to read and write music has absolutely nothing to do with the ability to play it. It has also nothing to do with having a good ear or not. There are hundreds of examples of great musicians who can't read, as well as mediocre ones who can. | |
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BobGeorge909 said: If he played sax in H.S. like we all know he did for a bit, he knows the basics of reading sheet music. He knows where a G is on the staff and knows where a D is on the staff and can probably read simple melodies. Can he read what he plays...no. If I was Prince, I would probably say I couldn't read music either. His ability to read music doesn't match his ability to play it, so it's somewhat irrelevant. To sum it up, if U put Mary Had a Little Lamb down in front of him but left it untitled, after 2 min's, he'd be playing Mary Had a Little Lamb.
Even if he did know how to read at one point, I'm pretty sure he's forgotten it by now. Why? Simply because he hasn't done it in about 35 years. [Edited 7/6/07 1:20am] | |
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RealMusician said: Actually, I'm not sure he would handle "simple" II-V-I progressions that easily either, if they were put in front of him, and not something he had come up with himself.
That is a good distinction. He actually uses ii V I (like in Do U Lie) but I think you're right about "coming up with it himself. I think he could handle it because it's a simple change (even I can handle it) but you are implying that he hasn't had traditional jazz training to recognize it on paper, and I think maybe you're right. He really seems to be mostly self taught. My Legacy
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RealMusician said: BobGeorge909 said: My grandpa wasn't the most educated man, he grew up poor in the south, didn't graduate high school. He was no great reader. Probably never read anything longer than a magazine article....but by no means was he illeterate....does that make sense?
Sure it does. The ability to read and write music has absolutely nothing to do with the ability to play it. It has also nothing to do with having a good ear or not. There are hundreds of examples of great musicians who can't read, as well as mediocre ones who can. A good analogy would be that you don't have to be able to read & write English to understand & speak English. My Legacy
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Interesting thread. What the hell is up with that sticky overload?  | |
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calldapplwondery83 said: Interesting thread. What the hell is up with that sticky overload?
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BlaqueKnight said: There seems to be a general sentiment among the musicians on this thread: Prince is a proficient musician who has dabbled in jazz and takes the "jazz approach" to his own style. Now...when asking "can Prince play jazz", it would seem that people who think of Prince's primary instrument as guitar tend to answer accordingly. I have never thought of Prince's primary instrument as guitar and have argued that point on here for years. Prince's primary instrument is keyboards.
Well, to me that wouldn't make any difference. He still can't play jazz. BlaqueKnight said: Close analysis of Prince's style when dabbling in jazz always seems to rest on his unusual arrangements (where he accents notes, weird key changes, etc.) and not the intricacy of his chords. As a matter of fact, you can learn a Prince song and go in thinking its far more complex than it actually is after you realize its his placement of notes that make some songs sound more elaborate than they are.
I see what you mean, sort of. But the complexity of Prince's songs, whether it's in the arrangements or anywhere else, is very rarely jazz-related. That is: the melodic, rhythmic, harmonic, or structural details that occur in jazz, seldom occur in Prince's music. Once again, jazz doesn't equal complexity (or vice versa)! BlaqueKnight said: Jazz players often don't take shortcuts and embrace the complexities because they see them as challenges.
Or maybe because they don't even see them as complexities in the first place. BlaqueKnight said: the upside is that Prince takes a jazz mindset to pop music, which is the reason why his music expands further than a lot of other pop artists.
Exactly! (Although what's "further" is subjective, of course...) [Edited 7/6/07 17:55pm] [Edited 7/6/07 17:55pm] | |
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come on, people. Prince is a great musician. period. If he isnt a jazz musician, or doesnt read music, it doesnt make him less great than he is. Let´s not forget that he is a songwriter, arranger, producer, multi-instrumentalist. Ok, I would love to see him as a great jazz musician, but I think he is great even not knowing how to read music or playing jazz... |
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can prince play jazz?
YES. can jazz play prince? | |
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TessOcean said: can prince play jazz?
YES. can jazz play prince? Does it ever stop  My author page: https://www.amazon.com/au...eretttruth | |
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JesseDezz said: Does it ever stop No... Prince can play anything ...name withheld to protect the truly "innocent". 
tA  Tribal Disorder
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When Prince does jazz it’s rather apparent he’s “trying” to do it, it doesn’t flow or fuse seamlessly into his songs as his other influences might; another reason I laugh when some try to put P on the same level as QJ. That said, whatever the brother was doing on TRC, I want more of it. [Edited 7/8/07 15:43pm] | |
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theAudience said: JesseDezz said: Does it ever stop No... Prince can play anything ...name withheld to protect the truly "innocent".
tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 Well, we are in the P:M&M forum. Were this 20 years ago, Here's what namepeace MIGHT have said: Of COURSE he can play jazz. Haven't you guys heard Madhouse's 8? That was an outstanding jazz album. He plays Charlie Parker tunes on his current tour! This guy's proven he can play anything!
signed . . . namepeace, July 11, 1987 P.S. -- anyone know where I can get a copy of The Black Album? So there's hope for everyone! [Edited 7/11/07 10:49am] Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder | |
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For those of you who say Prince can play jazz: how much do you listen to jazz? Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder | |
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namepeace said:[quote] theAudience said: Well, we are in the P:M&M forum. Were this 20 years ago, Here's what namepeace MIGHT have said: Of COURSE he can play jazz. Haven't you guys heard Madhouse's 8? That was an outstanding jazz album. He plays Charlie Parker tunes on his current tour! This guy's proven he can play anything!
signed . . . namepeace, July 11, 1987 P.S. -- anyone know where I can get a copy of The Black Album? So there's hope for everyone! [Edited 7/11/07 10:49am] But on repeated watching of the SOTT VHS tape, 1987 Namepeace noticed who was the one guy in the band who didn't play on Now's The TimeMy Legacy
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NDRU said: But on repeated watching of the SOTT VHS tape, 1987 Namepeace noticed who was the one guy in the band who didn't play on Now's The TimeGood point. But that wouldn't have mattered to "namepeace1987"!!!! Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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namepeace said: Were this 20 years ago, Here's what namepeace MIGHT have said:
Of COURSE he can play jazz. Haven't you guys heard Madhouse's 8? That was an outstanding jazz album. He plays Charlie Parker tunes on his current tour! This guy's proven he can play anything!
signed . . . namepeace, July 11, 1987 P.S. -- anyone know where I can get a copy of The Black Album? So there's hope for everyone!  Priceless!
tA Tribal Disorder
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theAudience said: namepeace said: Were this 20 years ago, Here's what namepeace MIGHT have said:
So there's hope for everyone! Priceless!
Those were the days. But had I not loved Prince's music so much, I would haven't developed the love for music that led me to jazz down the line. Come to think of it, discovering that Prince wasn't omnipotent was the best thing that ever happened to me! Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder | |
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Watch that "Lovesexy Live" footage when Prince plays "Blues in C". Or better yet, watch Prince on the piano at the beginning of the "UTCM" flick. Then tell me that he can't play Jazz.  NEW WAVE FOREVER: SLAVE TO THE WAVE FROM THE CRADLE TO THE GRAVE. | |
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NWF said: Watch that "Lovesexy Live" footage when Prince plays "Blues in C". Or better yet, watch Prince on the piano at the beginning of the "UTCM" flick. Then tell me that he can't play Jazz.
I'm not an expert, but I don't think the solo on Blues in C is really jazz. more straight blues. And he's kind of sloppy in the fast lines, too. Don't get me wrong I like it. Love the Hohner solo on Syracuse 85 more, though. | |
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Prince might not be able to play Jazz properly, but I love Xpectation and N.E.W.S.
I have yet to hear the Madhouse stuff | |
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JesseDezz said: BobGeorge909 said: If he played sax in H.S. like we all know he did for a bit, he knows the basics of reading sheet music. He knows where a G is on the staff and knows where a D is on the staff and can probably read simple melodies. Can he read what he plays...no. If I was Prince, I would probably say I couldn't read music either. His ability to read music doesn't match his ability to play it, so it's somewhat irrelevant. To sum it up, if U put Mary Had a Little Lamb down in front of him but left it untitled, after 2 min's, he'd be playing Mary Had a Little Lamb. The thing is, you don't know that - it's like you want to believe soooo much that Prince can read, even if it's just a little bit... I can say exactly the same for your theory of the opposite. The last time I read sheet music was like 10 yeas ago....I'm sure I haven't completely forgotton. Now can Prince read a symphony or some other complicated score...prolly not. He cant read music that matches his caliber of musicianship....but he can read music....if he looks at a staff and sees a g on a ttreble cleff....he know's its a g...he know wht and 1/8 note looks like and how to put together a string of 1/4, 1/2, whole, and 1/16 notes to make a rhythm....do U honestly think Prince doesnt have that simple ability? | |
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