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PrintableObviously Prince is not spiritually strong, but he's working on it, and has been for some time.
(Most recently his declaration about taking time off to read the bible after the O2 concerts) 
People of faith all have times of weakness, Prince's 'moments' are more public than most. His spiritual Journey has kept me interested in him just as much as his music has. What Prince does or sings about should really have no bearing on how any individual chooses to serve God. IF you find it is swaying you away from your path then say a prayer for him and yourself. The mans not evil, he has at times pushed boundaries to far with his music, but always makes PUBLIC amends when he does... 1998 Positivity Don't kiss the beast We need love & honesty, peace & harmony Positivity Love & honesty, peace & harmony I said, hold on 2 your soul, U got a long way 2 go sho' nuff, sho' nuff, sho' nuff Don't kiss the beast Be superior at least Hold on 2 your soul, y'all, court, sing Hold on 2 your soul, we got a long way 2 go Hold on 2 your soul One minute they want peace……
Then do everything to make it go away.  | |
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JOYJOY said: The mans not evil, he has at times pushed boundaries to far with his music, but always makes PUBLIC amends when he does...
1998 Positivity That'd b '88 
He has not always made PUBLIC amends. Actions speak louder than words.  | |
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christos7 said: JOYJOY said: The mans not evil, he has at times pushed boundaries to far with his music, but always makes PUBLIC amends when he does...
1998 Positivity That'd b '88
He has not always made PUBLIC amends. Actions speak louder than words. I KNOW just my finger slipped as I typed 
Re PUBLIC amends in the songs he writes that I see but you dont? I think we should agree to differ on that point.  One minute they want peace……
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JOYJOY said: Re PUBLIC amends in the songs he writes that I see but you dont? I think we should agree to differ on that point.
No I agree he has, and will continue 2 do so I guess. It's just the always part I didnt agree with. 
In hindsight, 10 years or so from now, he may b doing xactly the same thing. Hindsight is always better than foresight. | |
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People tend to get a chill whenever evil is discussed in Christian terms, because the religion itself advances an extremely polarized and polarizing world view. It's very combative, very Us Versus Them. In Christian culture, evil is a harrowing terror that must be rejected and defeated, whereas Eastern philosophies tend to take a more pragmatic, holistic view that favors befriending and understanding the fearsome aspects of life. Interrelatedness is emphasized, whereas Christianity treats evil as completely alien.
That said, Prince's oeuvre is perfectly aligned with the Christain ethos. He's always styled himself as a strange, otherworldly character, and plays with a lot of dichotomies--love and lust, male and female, black and white--which are fundamentally Christian polarities. What distinguishes him from the church tradition, and what makes him dangerous, is his willful blurring of all boundaries. Clarity has never been a staple of Prince music, as he prefers to obscure, mystify, confound all definitions to the point where good and evil are no longer distinguishable. Which is why Lovesexy was such a watershed moment in Prince music, because he announced in no uncertain terms that he knows his right from wrong. It was an act of setting up boundaries and establishing definitions, an assertion of moral awareness. He sings, "Save me Jesus, I've been a fool/How could I forget that U R the rule." That's a pretty naked Christian appeal for absolution. Unfortunately, his religious fervor played out in later years as more sanctimonious than truly enlightened. His wasn't a message of grace and blessing, but of judgment. Songs like "Dolphin" and "Gold" have a righteous, superior tone, and his feud with his label was as unctuous. Even his love songs bristled with condemnation. He tells his lover Damn U, I wanna curse U, I Hate U, I Don't Trust U Anymore. In a way, he was more evil in the 90s because his pretentions of goodness were so hollow. When he was making questionable, lurid music about incest and being your girlfriend and your messiah, flouting all artistic, sexual, and moral traditions, i.e., being an unconscionable badass, he was much more compelling, more challenging, and oddly enough, more relatable. His desire for freedom and being unconstrained by society's rules, up to and including the Word of God, was an explosive vision that was voiced with so much passion and skill it was irresistable. If 1999, Purple Rain, and Sign o' the Times are the Devil's work, and Emancipation, The Gold Experience, and Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic are the work of a repentant goodly Christian, the Devil makes better music. Moreover, I believe art--and ultimately life--is all about engaging what is wrong, what is evil, what is questionable and horrifying in the world and in ourselves, and give it expression without succumbing to it. I believe Prince did just that with his 80s music, if not his conduct. | |
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I always thought that Prince's point before the conversion to Jehovah's Witness was possibly that sexual lust is natural and part of god's plan (nature), and that it was wrong to supress the sexual energy.
Indeed, I think he was pushing to let yourself be taken in sexual religious rapture kind of like cumming under divine influence. I always thought that this was most likely a very healthy way of weaving what is obviously universally natural, inherent, instincts into the human web structure of morality. At least in the beginning of JudeoChristian tales, it is the devil that leads Adam and Eve to be ashamed of their sexual chracteristics. In god's Eden it was not even questioned until "knowledge" was sought. On matters of drug/alcohol abuse, violence and cruelty, it seemed Prince was always putting it down. My art book: http://www.lulu.com/spotl...ecomicskid
VIDEO WORK: http://sharadkantpatel.com MUSIC: https://soundcloud.com/ufoclub1977 | |
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ufoclub said: I always thought that Prince's point before the conversion to Jehovah's Witness was possibly that sexual lust is natural and part of god's plan (nature), and that it was wrong to supress the sexual energy.
Indeed, I think he was pushing to let yourself be taken in sexual religious rapture kind of like cumming under divine influence. I always thought that this was most likely a very healthy way of weaving what is obviously universally natural, inherent, instincts into the human web structure of morality. At least in the beginning of JudeoChristian tales, it is the devil that leads Adam and Eve to be ashamed of their sexual chracteristics. In god's Eden it was not even questioned until "knowledge" was sought. On matters of drug/alcohol abuse, violence and cruelty, it seemed Prince was always putting it down.  I agree apart from that bit^^. Prince has been cruel to many women AND MEN! | |
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padawan said: People tend to get a chill whenever evil is discussed in Christian terms, because the religion itself advances an extremely polarized and polarizing world view. It's very combative, very Us Versus Them. In Christian culture, evil is a harrowing terror that must be rejected and defeated, whereas Eastern philosophies tend to take a more pragmatic, holistic view that favors befriending and understanding the fearsome aspects of life. Interrelatedness is emphasized, whereas Christianity treats evil as completely alien.
That said, Prince's oeuvre is perfectly aligned with the Christain ethos. He's always styled himself as a strange, otherworldly character, and plays with a lot of dichotomies--love and lust, male and female, black and white--which are fundamentally Christian polarities. What distinguishes him from the church tradition, and what makes him dangerous, is his willful blurring of all boundaries. Clarity has never been a staple of Prince music, as he prefers to obscure, mystify, confound all definitions to the point where good and evil are no longer distinguishable. Which is why Lovesexy was such a watershed moment in Prince music, because he announced in no uncertain terms that he knows his right from wrong. It was an act of setting up boundaries and establishing definitions, an assertion of moral awareness. He sings, "Save me Jesus, I've been a fool/How could I forget that U R the rule." That's a pretty naked Christian appeal for absolution. Unfortunately, his religious fervor played out in later years as more sanctimonious than truly enlightened. His wasn't a message of grace and blessing, but of judgment. Songs like "Dolphin" and "Gold" have a righteous, superior tone, and his feud with his label was as unctuous. Even his love songs bristled with condemnation. He tells his lover Damn U, I wanna curse U, I Hate U, I Don't Trust U Anymore. In a way, he was more evil in the 90s because his pretentions of goodness were so hollow. When he was making questionable, lurid music about incest and being your girlfriend and your messiah, flouting all artistic, sexual, and moral traditions, i.e., being an unconscionable badass, he was much more compelling, more challenging, and oddly enough, more relatable. His desire for freedom and being unconstrained by society's rules, up to and including the Word of God, was an explosive vision that was voiced with so much passion and skill it was irresistable. If 1999, Purple Rain, and Sign o' the Times are the Devil's work, and Emancipation, The Gold Experience, and Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic are the work of a repentant goodly Christian, the Devil makes better music. Moreover, I believe art--and ultimately life--is all about engaging what is wrong, what is evil, what is questionable and horrifying in the world and in ourselves, and give it expression without succumbing to it. I believe Prince did just that with his 80s music, if not his conduct. Brilliant. Very well put and I agree. I hope Prince donning the Japanese robes and sandals is a hint that he will in fact b embracing those Eastern philosophies u mention.  | |
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icke4presidant said: ufoclub said: I always thought that Prince's point before the conversion to Jehovah's Witness was possibly that sexual lust is natural and part of god's plan (nature), and that it was wrong to supress the sexual energy.
Indeed, I think he was pushing to let yourself be taken in sexual religious rapture kind of like cumming under divine influence. I always thought that this was most likely a very healthy way of weaving what is obviously universally natural, inherent, instincts into the human web structure of morality. At least in the beginning of JudeoChristian tales, it is the devil that leads Adam and Eve to be ashamed of their sexual chracteristics. In god's Eden it was not even questioned until "knowledge" was sought. On matters of drug/alcohol abuse, violence and cruelty, it seemed Prince was always putting it down. I agree apart from that bit^^. Prince has been cruel to many women AND MEN!I mean in his art's message. His real character is human and of course egotistical, bitchy, jealous, depressed, manic as many creative people are. My art book: http://www.lulu.com/spotl...ecomicskid
VIDEO WORK: http://sharadkantpatel.com MUSIC: https://soundcloud.com/ufoclub1977 | |
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ufoclub said: icke4presidant said: I agree apart from that bit^^. Prince has been cruel to many women AND MEN!I mean in his art's message. His real character is human and of course egotistical, bitchy, jealous, depressed, manic as many creative people are. O.K i totally agree with you | |
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Interesting stuff - but I think peeps are letting the dogma confuse their interpretations.
2 me, it always seemed that P was playing with the imagery. He loved (still does?) the notion of dichotomies. I always saw the main one as - God/Love v Ego/lust. Or something like that. It doesn't seem that he was caught up in any formal religious doctrine until the JW conversion. What was cool was that he was using all this iconography and reference to create his own story - which was open-ended and enigmatic. Because of all the intertextuality and mystery the meaning is actually created by the listener. He played with his public persona as part of this game, taking things Bowie and others had done previously to an extreme best exemplified by the use of the symbol. Clearly the intentional dropping of hints lends to searching for all kinds of intended meanings, but I think that trying to pin down a rigid doctrine reduces the whole thing and won't really hold water. The fact is there are references to God and references to evil/the devil, coz he's creating his own meaning with them, not because he belongs to some cult or other. In a way that's why some of the JW stuff is frustrating coz it seems to be hampering his creativity by making him try to fit someone else's closed meaning instead of creating his own open-ended one. OTOH, on parts of TRC and clearly on 3121 he went cryptic and mixed around references and meanings again... "We've never been able to pull off a funk number"
"That's becuase we're soulless auttomatons" | |
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bigbrother said: Now I love the guy as much as anyone so don't take this as idle criticism but more speculation. I've read the comments of more than a few people who've met Prince face to face (Michael Jackson, Rick James, former associate Karen Kratinger, etc) who say that at times he gives them the creeps with his aura. Apparently, MJ commented during Purple Rain's success that he thought Prince's talents had come from the Devil himself as some sort of Faustian pact ('The Rise and Fall of Michael Jackson'). Now I put most of these comments down to pure jealousy for the most part but I must confess that occasionally I've felt some 'bad energy' (spooky electric?) listening to a few tracks like 'Temptation', the Lord's Prayer during 'Controversy' and sometimes the slowed down voice he has used in various tracks like 'Bob George' and the narrator in TRC. What do you think?
You are scaring yourself needlessly. Could it be that you don't like TRC, the inclusion of the Lord's Prayer at the end of Controversy, and Temptation? | |
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Blackguitarist and some others on here is this Evil to you? 1984 mind U!
God In the beginning, there was God He made the earth and the heavens He gave us light 2 rule the day And another light 2 rule the night The Lord, thy God He made, He made the seas He made the fruit upon the tree When He saw When He saw that it was good He made a man He made a man Only He could, only He could God made U God made me 2 He made us all He made us all equally Now U say it God made U, God made me He made us all equally Wake up children Dance the Dance Electric There isn't much time Who screamed? Was it U? © 1984 Controversy Music - ASCAP |
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Astasheiks said: Blackguitarist and some others on here is this Evil to you? 1984 mind U!
God In the beginning, there was God He made the earth and the heavens He gave us light 2 rule the day And another light 2 rule the night The Lord, thy God He made, He made the seas He made the fruit upon the tree When He saw When He saw that it was good He made a man He made a man Only He could, only He could God made U God made me 2 He made us all He made us all equally Now U say it God made U, God made me He made us all equally Wake up children Dance the Dance Electric There isn't much time Who screamed? Was it U? © 1984 Controversy Music - ASCAP If you isolate the lyrics, it seems pretty open-and-shut, doesn't it? He wrote a song about the Genesis creation story. But, study the vocal delivery -- particularly toward the end with all the snarls, yelps and screams (textbook Prince, no doubt) -- and its overall meaning (to Prince) gets a little harder to discern. Then, take into account the fact that "God" doubled as the music to a love scene in "Purple Rain," and we're right back to Prince's mixing of lewd and sacred touchstones. That's a trick condemned in the New Testament and reminiscent of pagan religions whose temples came equipped with prostitutes to facilitate sexual/religious rituals. The point being this: Prince's 1980s obsession with mixing pornographic and Christian references was not new. Even the Bible condemned similar exercises. What was new was the extremes to which he, a gospel/blues/r&b artist ran with it while putting out dazzling, masterfully composed & performed pop music. Having songs that reference God in and of themselves doesn't make their artist necessarily devoted to Him. Otherwise, Tori's "God" would be a tribute instead of a renunciation. Many of Prince's Christian references from that period are weird or contextually contradictory at best, making his real outlook baffling and confusing. But, God is not the author of confusion, according to 1 Corinthians 14:33 -- so, what does that say about Prince's inspiration or condition during that time? [Edited 6/27/07 18:59pm] | |
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ThreadBare said: Astasheiks said: Blackguitarist and some others on here is this Evil to you? 1984 mind U!
If you isolate the lyrics, it seems pretty open-and-shut, doesn't it? He wrote a song about the Genesis creation story. But, study the vocal delivery -- particularly toward the end with all the snarls, yelps and screams (textbook Prince, no doubt) -- and its overall meaning (to Prince) gets a little harder to discern. Then, take into account the fact that "God" doubled as the music to a love scene in "Purple Rain," and we're right back to Prince's mixing of lewd and sacred touchstones. That's a trick condemned in the New Testament and reminiscent of pagan religions whose temples came equipped with prostitutes to facilitate sexual/religious rituals. The point being this: Prince's 1980s obsession with mixing pornographic and Christian references was not new. Even the Bible condemned similar exercises. What was new was the extremes to which he, a gospel/blues/r&b artist ran with it while putting out dazzling, masterfully composed & performed pop music. Having songs that reference God in and of themselves doesn't make their artist necessarily devoted to Him. Otherwise, Tori's "God" would be a tribute instead of a renunciation. Many of Prince's Christian references from that period are weird or contextually contradictory at best, making his real outlook baffling and confusing. But, God is not the author of confusion, according to 1 Corinthians 14:33 -- so, what does that say about Prince's inspiration or condition during that time? [Edited 6/27/07 18:59pm] 
Astasheiks, hows it feel 2 b shot down in flames? | |
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XxAxX said: im with ya! Your lips would make a lollipop too happy. | |
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I'm digging this . . . lightweight shit, but entertaining nonetheless. Though it still impresses the fuck out of me how he sells out a show selling tickets for $300 and $3000. Marketing wizardry! Trust me, there are far scarier things going on than Prince.
LQ | |
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ThreadBare said: Astasheiks said: Blackguitarist and some others on here is this Evil to you? 1984 mind U!
God In the beginning, there was God He made the earth and the heavens He gave us light 2 rule the day And another light 2 rule the night The Lord, thy God He made, He made the seas He made the fruit upon the tree When He saw When He saw that it was good He made a man He made a man Only He could, only He could God made U God made me 2 He made us all He made us all equally Now U say it God made U, God made me He made us all equally Wake up children Dance the Dance Electric There isn't much time Who screamed? Was it U? © 1984 Controversy Music - ASCAP If you isolate the lyrics, it seems pretty open-and-shut, doesn't it? He wrote a song about the Genesis creation story. But, study the vocal delivery -- particularly toward the end with all the snarls, yelps and screams (textbook Prince, no doubt) -- and its overall meaning (to Prince) gets a little harder to discern. Then, take into account the fact that "God" doubled as the music to a love scene in "Purple Rain," and we're right back to Prince's mixing of lewd and sacred touchstones. That's a trick condemned in the New Testament and reminiscent of pagan religions whose temples came equipped with prostitutes to facilitate sexual/religious rituals. The point being this: Prince's 1980s obsession with mixing pornographic and Christian references was not new. Even the Bible condemned similar exercises. What was new was the extremes to which he, a gospel/blues/r&b artist ran with it while putting out dazzling, masterfully composed & performed pop music. Having songs that reference God in and of themselves doesn't make their artist necessarily devoted to Him. Otherwise, Tori's "God" would be a tribute instead of a renunciation. Many of Prince's Christian references from that period are weird or contextually contradictory at best, making his real outlook baffling and confusing. But, God is not the author of confusion, according to 1 Corinthians 14:33 -- so, what does that say about Prince's inspiration or condition during that time? [Edited 6/27/07 18:59pm] How devoted to "Christianity" are you, ma'am/sir? Take into regard that I mean no direspect to you, personally.  | |
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bigbrother said: Now I love the guy as much as anyone so don't take this as idle criticism but more speculation. I've read the comments of more than a few people who've met Prince face to face (Michael Jackson, Rick James, former associate Karen Kratinger, etc) who say that at times he gives them the creeps with his aura. Apparently, MJ commented during Purple Rain's success that he thought Prince's talents had come from the Devil himself as some sort of Faustian pact ('The Rise and Fall of Michael Jackson'). Now I put most of these comments down to pure jealousy for the most part but I must confess that occasionally I've felt some 'bad energy' (spooky electric?) listening to a few tracks like 'Temptation', the Lord's Prayer during 'Controversy' and sometimes the slowed down voice he has used in various tracks like 'Bob George' and the narrator in TRC. What do you think?
Prince is a mystical man...the fact that his past was so, hmmmm, sexually orientated, and the fact that now he's almost like Rev.Funk, confuses many. I do think he has a good heart though  | |
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JOYJOY said: Obviously Prince is not spiritually strong, but he's working on it, and has been for some time.
(Most recently his declaration about taking time off to read the bible after the O2 concerts)
People of faith all have times of weakness, Prince's 'moments' are more public than most. His spiritual Journey has kept me interested in him just as much as his music has. What Prince does or sings about should really have no bearing on how any individual chooses to serve God. IF you find it is swaying you away from your path then say a prayer for him and yourself. The mans not evil, he has at times pushed boundaries to far with his music, but always makes PUBLIC amends when he does... 1998 Positivity Don't kiss the beast We need love & honesty, peace & harmony Positivity Love & honesty, peace & harmony I said, hold on 2 your soul, U got a long way 2 go sho' nuff, sho' nuff, sho' nuff Don't kiss the beast Be superior at least Hold on 2 your soul, y'all, court, sing Hold on 2 your soul, we got a long way 2 go Hold on 2 your soul yea, let his art speak for itself | |
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This is a really interesting thread. I'm glad to see it discussed. I have had this internal argument for years, and really noone to bounce it off of. I have come to the conclusion. That Prince is a wonderful full spectrum mirror and it depends on what you want to see and what you are looking for.
Some well thought out opionions presented. Thanks | |
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icke4presidant said: blackguitaristz said: Please...save your respect. I don't nor have I ever wanted it from u. PLEASE, lose all respect in one second for all I give a fuck. I'm not exposing shit, except for my opinion. AND YEAH, I AM TOTALLY SERIOUS. I don't care what P's motive was. P and anyone else singing from the perspective of Jesus is blasphemous. Period. Especially in the context of a secular song. And on an album where some of P's other references are questionable. I'm far from saved but even I can see that shit's not cool. And I'm not going to sit up here and pretend I think otherwise cuz I'm not on P's jock where P can do no wrong. I'll leave the shit for you, president. "i'm losing respect by the minute." Muthafucka please! I don't know who you think you're talking to with that soap opera sounding shit. Shut the fuck up you religious nut. Listen to zappa's ;'jesus thinks your a jerk' And when it comes to me, YOU do the same, with your immature, hurt feelings sounding ass. "Oooh, (wipes the tears from his eyes) shut the fuck up. I'm sooo serious blackguitaristz, (wipes more tears) you better shut the fuck up." Damn, that's some funny sounding shit. SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
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blackguitaristz said: icke4presidant said: Shut the fuck up you religious nut. Listen to zappa's ;'jesus thinks your a jerk' And when it comes to me, YOU do the same, with your immature, hurt feelings sounding ass. "Oooh, (wipes the tears from his eyes) shut the fuck up. I'm sooo serious blackguitaristz, (wipes more tears) you better shut the fuck up." Damn, that's some funny sounding shit. With this cool aid drinker BG, it could be that this tread may have touched a nerve. How juvenile. It's said to see when individuals have not progressed from that immature mindset. What a tragedy. Mind is a terrible thing to waste. | |
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Astasheiks said: Blackguitarist and some others on here is this Evil to you? 1984 mind U!
God In the beginning, there was God He made the earth and the heavens He gave us light 2 rule the day And another light 2 rule the night The Lord, thy God He made, He made the seas He made the fruit upon the tree When He saw When He saw that it was good He made a man He made a man Only He could, only He could God made U God made me 2 He made us all He made us all equally Now U say it God made U, God made me He made us all equally Wake up children Dance the Dance Electric There isn't much time Who screamed? Was it U? © 1984 Controversy Music - ASCAP Please understand this; You and nobody else on this site has to try to prove anything to me nor "convince" me of anything. Trust me, I am fully aware of P's song "God". His instrumental version of God is one of his best. I've never said that Prince wasn't aware of God. Read all of my posts on this thread and you will see this. SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
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weepingwall said:  Leave me out of this. Music.............is the THANG! | |
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That u do not see
U can not hold That u do not LOVE Can not touch your Soul What U call evil May not be evil at all It may simply be the heed 4 U 2 answer the Call | |
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what's the "heed" 4 u 2 answer the call?
That makes no sense! "We've never been able to pull off a funk number"
"That's becuase we're soulless auttomatons" | |
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wasitgood4u said: what's the "heed" 4 u 2 answer the call?
That makes no sense! that's cause you needs to read it backwards  | |
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 "We've never been able to pull off a funk number"
"That's becuase we're soulless auttomatons" | |
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