I was driving today and the Ultimate Prince version of "Let's Work" came on, (my iPod), and I was struck at how fresh and crisp it sounded compared with the stuff he has released in recent years. Everything was clear, every instrument really defined, and though it was simple it had a really powerful sound.

Do you think as technology has made things quicker and easier (sampling, drum loops, etc.), that Prince's creativty as a producer has waned? It seems like he is not as imaginative as he used to be with individual instrument sounds or overall "soundscapes". Maybe part of that, is that he doesn't give other musicians a chance to record parts, and he ends up doing the first thing that comes into his mind, and by nature things start to sound the same after so much time.

I tend to think that Prince's recent music is a lot better than how it is delivered; meaning the production often does little to service the song in the way that even the worst songs from albums like Parade and Lovesexy got a lift from their production values. Songs like Cinnamon Girl and A Million Days sound so "stock" by comparison. They have neither the big, grand sound of TGE, nor the simplistic clarity of the first few albums.

What are your thoughts?

nurse said:

Agreed!

sexxydancer said:

huh?

jpav said:

Let's work on ultimate is squashed as hell. The original sounds excellent.

THIS IS NOTHING TO DO WITH PRINCE AS A PRODUCER. The sound is how it's engineered, mixed and mastered.

Some early prince albums especially 1999 were very poorly recorded. However prince album sounds great.Dirty mind was going to be produced properly but P's manager said the demo like feel and sound would suit the album; it was recorded at home by prince, hence the sound.

Since 1995 every alnum has got progressively worse in sound. I MEAN THE MASTERING NOT THE PRODUCTION OR RECORDING. All the albums in recent years are squashed, have no dynamics and have clipping(distortion due to compressing during mastering) I LIKE ALL THE ACTUAL MATERIAL; LOVE MUSICOLOGY AND 3121 JUST NOT THE SOUND.
PRINCE IS A GREAT PRODUCER but unfortunately he does not oversee the mastering and the trend over the last 10 years is to make cds as load as possible even if that means distortion and no dynamics.

If you want to discuss the best albums sonically and want any details just pm me because i know alot about engineering and on other sites that discuss these thingsPrince has been brought up as an artists who has horribly mastered cds.

I hope Planet Earth isn't mastered by brian gardner and/or at bernoe grundman mastering becuase that means it will be squashed as hell.

note; TRC isn;t too bad but still has clipping. I know a little about the mastering of this album as well becuase i have heard the engineer talk about it on another site

No, it's better technology then there was back in the day, that's why it's called remastering
[Edited 6/13/07 18:19pm]

wlcm2thdwn said:

Better technology does not mean better sound; it'a all about how it's used; in today's case ABUSED.

Cds sounded waay better 88-93 that's when they were dynamic

Like what's already been said a million times before, the mastering is what let's a lot of music down nowadays. Loud does not mean better, it takes away the great production work that's gone into it in the first place, imho.

He is better than ever, lots of details, alot of people don't even hear, and lots of tricks. Some like to wear-out the words 'over-produced'. I like the fact he makes effort with a studio album. He can do it live without, anytime.

I'm not talking about mastering/engineering... I understand those issues. It's not the "loudness" I'm responding to, but the sound of the individual instruments...

I'm talking about "Prince the producer", and it seems like his recent work (last decade, with the exception of TRC) has shown him to be very lazy with regard to drum sounds/guitar effects/loops.

The early stuff was simple but everyting had a great sound to it; everything was well defined. Later his recording got very "big" sounding (TGE, Symbol, etc.)

Now it just seems that like he plugs something in and lays it down. I think that's where people like Wendy and Lisa are missed; as they brought a flavor to the recording process that is missing now.

jpav said:

'TGE' etc, were 'big' but also live type recordings, and they sounded powerful. I personally like it, mastering aside. But I think his studio stuff, where he's locked himself away, is very detailed and precise. He aint lazy, he is a master in the studio. He was 20 years ago, and he's perfected his skill.

bonedaddy said:

yes you are completely right

I loved 3121 and musicology as far as the music goes but there's no dynamics and there's distortion.

Unfortunately as much as a control freak Prince is making music after it's done he just hands it over to be mastered and i bet he doesn't even listened to the final master INFACT MANY artists don't.

Many cds labeled 'over produced' infact are not; they are just compressed as hell.

Producers like Jimi hendrix and frank zappa were involved in the mixing and mastering(esp zappa; wow what a control freak). Anyway Hendrix was disgusted at the mastering of the Electric Ladyland lp and said after that he is gonna be totally hands on in the mastering becuase there's no point in putting lots of work in the production and writing if a mastering engineer changes the sound.

YOU WOULD BE VERY SUPRISED out how many albums would soumd if mastered better.

BOTTOM LINE; Prince is GREAT; brian gardner(mastering engineer) IS A DICKHEAD(trust me i have spoke to him he ENJOYS making cds loud just for fun)

icke4presidant said:

This is very interesting. Can you (or someone else) explain "compressing." I've heard it mentioned a lot in regards to digiital music, usually in the context of MP3 downloads and how beause the format is so compressed, the quality of the track is measurably bad.

I'm not at all a technical person in this regards, but would enjoy learning more about production and mastering.

Thanks.

coltrane3 said:

99% of todays albums sound like shit
pm me and i will get back to you with links of explainations etc
[Edited 6/13/07 8:22am]

coltrane3 said:

I too would be interested in find out a bit more. Im a musician, who writes and produces, but am SH1TE at mixing, no matter how long I spend trying to do it, and I am not getting better with time! Id be interested in finding out about compression, esp. how its done, what plug ins are used, how they are used, etc and then how the sound is "squashed". Presumably the sound is squashed so that it is "even", so that when the loudness is increased, it can be increased evenly meaning the loudest sound possible with the minimum distortion.. of course there is a cost. To the dynamics of the tune.
Anyway I would be interested in seeing how its done, or if there is a "you tube" video tutorial on it.. its something thats always fasnicated me..

jpav said:

Have u listen 2 the Rainbow Children?

coltrane3 said:

Anybody wanting to know about mastering should really look into it on the internet somewhere. Theres plenty of places. We've done this to DEATH around here!

bonedaddy said:

While I agree that I can just google the information, the fact is we do every topic TO DEATH around here.

bonedaddy said:

really?

i'm pretty new to site; i have never seen anything

o.k but if prince's next album is poorly mastered we have a right to complain about it as a consumer; hopefully it'll SOUND GREAT THOUGH(Fingers crossed)

I look forward TO PRAISING the sound of Prince's next album

Here's a great, and very long, article on mastering. There are also links at the end of the article to more on the same topic.

http://www.stylusmagazine...orever.htm

I know absolute nothing about remastering. If this is the case with the over production of remastering isn’t Prince aware of this? Does he hear this before the album is finalized? If we’re not happy with the overproduction I know he can’t be. Do u think he care since it’s his masterpiece? If so can he control this before its released? Or has he gotten lazy and don’t care?

no prince still is great producer (the rainbow children)
but he isnt great producer when he tries to revisit his old mineapolis sound.
prince is great when his soul is in the music he does.
musicology is awful in terms of production,3121 is little better.
but i must say that production of the rainbow children is amazing.

I think it's hilarious to think his production has declined, he's pushed himself into an arena where he has to now circle and do different styles and it confuses listeners. Musicology is as "badly" produced as Sign o' the Times or Lovesexy in their respective days... in other words, when those albums came out my dj or music friends complained that Prince's production had gone to shit back then.

From what Femi Jeyi said, "High" was a song he spent a lot of time on, while something like "Cinnamon Girl" possibly is not, so I think it depends on the song and how much interest he actually had in it.

I also think it's fascinating that music is so subjective. The title track 3121 is so inventive, focused, and exciting to my ears in production that it overshadows anything pre-1984 production wise.

Lazy drum sounds? What about "Christopher Tracy's Parade", "Computer Blue","It" or "I could Never Take the Place of Your Man", or "Lovesexy"? Those songs could be argued to have lifeless, mechanical, monotone drum programming that saps any life in those tracks.

The sequence of 4 tracks that begin 3121 is one of the most accomplished, genre jumping, freshly-contrasting, sequences he's ever pulled off when listened to in their intended sequence. Not one track sounds like filler to me, and they are each self intact pop-art of a different color.

Rainbow Children is a bit too boring in it's production for me to give each track detailed listens any more. An exception is Digital Garden (which kind of resembles the Police's "Walking in Your Footsteps" at the beginning.) Come to think of it, Rainbow Children also reminds me of Sting's first solo album "Dream of the Blue Turtles" in it's many conservative jazzy live band arrangements.

dang it I need to stop typing...

ufoclub said:

I agree with you

pennylover said:

Prince's catalogue hasn't been remastered remember.

The mastering happens after the the songs are recorded and mixed.

It's then handed over to a mastering engineer. Unfortunately Prince does not pay any attention to this bit and the trend is to compress the hell out of the album meaning louder often distorted tracks that sound nothing like they did in the studio. PRINCE CAN IF HE WANTS DICTATE HOW IT'S MASTERED like zappa did or Hendrix planned to do but as the engineer for D & P said once Prince is done with a project he doesn't pay any attention to it.

Let's wait and see what his newest album sounds like; HOPEFULLY FRESH, DYNAMIC AND BEAUTIFUL(i doubt it though). I'm sure the music will be good.

ufoclub all you said falls into water after you said that i could never take the place have drum machine.
where did u heard drum machine in i could never take the place???
its real drums there.

rainbow children dont have conventional jazz sound.production isnt characteristic for jazz at all

thebanishedone said:

A Drum machine is used on tht track

jpav said:

you hit all the high notes...he didnt keep up with technology and thats why pharell sounds more like prince than prince